Rip Off Britain

kinaldo

My New Year's resolution this year is to no longer moan about Rip Off Ireland... thankfully I'll be spending most of the year on the other side of the world

Myself and a couple of mates went to London for New Year's Eve and then traveled up to Newcastle for the Manchester United match in the morning. The cheapest route to London was via Bristol - train tickets advertised online were £12.50 for a 2hr 30 min (approx) journey there. That was Standard Advance B class. Booking them was seemingly impossible because of a foreign postcode system error shared by all of the vendors.

When we arrived in Bristol I was told by a ticket agent that advance tickets were exactly that, and also that "knowledge comes at a cost". We were quoted £34 each for tickets to London but negotiated it down to £27, and finally £20 each. We met other people along the same journey that paid the full £34. Our cheeky ticket agent also quoted us £90 each for a ticket from London to Newcastle the following day. He then said he could do it for £50. Thankfully we declined and purchased them at Paddington Station for £33, leaving London at 10am and arriving in Newcastle at 1pm.

We then paid £5.30 each for an 4 zone all day metro ticket, compared to the $7 we had recently paid for an unrestricted all day metro pass in New York (about £2 cheaper). A single 2 zone journey the following day cost £3, also £2 dearer than the New York unrestricted equivalent.

Unfortunately our tight budget made me book a cheap hotel in a rather crumby area of London known as Crystal Palace, which requires 2 trains to get out there. This was not an option though on New Year's Eve and it cost £60 to get a taxi back that night. By that time the hotel were charging double the normal price for drinks, including non-alcoholic ones. £5 was the price for a cup of coffee!

In the morning we were up bright an early at 7.30 to get to Paddington for a changeover to King's Cross where our 10am Newcastle train awaited us. The London Underground service was listed as "Good", with the exception of the Circle Line we needed to bring us into King's Cross. Severe delays on that line due to a "staff shortage"...

We eventually got there at 10.08 and low and behold our train had already left. We're told our £33 tickets cannot be refunded or exchanged, and it will cost us £90 each to get on the next train to Newcastle. The ticket agent unsympathetically tells us there's nothing he can do - that our tickets are effectively a write off.

Our only option was to walk away and just get on the next train anyway. After we passed Peterborough the ticket inspector looked at our tickets but didn't say anything. Once we were out of London everything went well apart from having to pay a £32.50 train fare each (as opposed to the £12.50 advance tickets online) for a ticket from Newcastle to Leeds to catch our 10.30 flight after the match (and also a £25 taxi fare to Leeds airport). Flying from Newcastle that night was always out of the question.

Great game (a 52300 sellout that was actually worth the £40 ticket price) and fantastic pies up at St. James' Park. I wanted to get Newcastle's European away jersey but had to scoff at the £40 price tag and instead enjoyed a £5 all you can eat buffet in the Chinatown up there. Great city but for a change it was actually nice to return to Dublin from a short break.

P.S.

How exactly do all the Londoners dispose of their rubbish? We couldn't find a single solitary bin in the city, and yet it was surprisingly clean (compared to Dublin anyway).

BuffyBot

I'm not sure what, if any, your point is?

Your own unpreparedness? Your lack of understanding of the "advance purchase" concept? Your not researching the location of your accomodation before you booked it?

ressem

As for the postcode issue that Irish people encounter when buying a train ticket online for a UK rail company.

I've found with First Great Western and Virgin Trains, that they provide a dummy entry which you're meant to choose to get around this restriction.

For FGW I chose EH11 3AF, CAP Gemini as advised somewhere in the help, which allowed manual editing of the billing address.

And compared to Irish Rail, the cost could be low when you book in advance.
Like £18 first class on a 130 mile journey including complimentary drink, £3 standard for a 50 mile journey.

Limestone1

Staying in Crystal Palace for a night in London would be the equivalent of coming to Dublin and staying in Greystones. Which is fine but don't complain about the price of a Taxi or the difficulty of getting one on New Years Eve if you do.
ps There are night buses in London too.
pps All the bins were removed from railway/bus stations and many busy streets when the IRA starting popping bombs into them in the 90s. You are correct in that the English don't take this as an excuse to use a wall/road/hedge/pavement for disposal of rubbish like the Irish do.

Darren

BuffyBot wrote:

I'm not sure what, if any, your point is?

Your own unpreparedness? Your lack of understanding of the "advance purchase" concept? Your not researching the location of your accomodation before you booked it?

Buffybot,

Do I take it that you find the extortionate daily overcharging in the UK to use public transport to line the pockets of fat cat rail bosses, shareholders and overpaid lazy train drivers reasonable????

kinaldo

BuffyBot wrote:

I'm not sure what, if any, your point is?

If you read closely you'll see that my point is their prices in general, and more specifically their transport, is a complete rip off. Even compared to Dublin.

train fares are four times the global average

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-2320655_1,00.html

kinaldo

Limestone1 wrote:

Staying in Crystal Palace for a night in London would be the equivalent of coming to Dublin and staying in Greystones.

Would Dubliners be expected to pay €80 for a taxi from the City Centre to Greystones? A taxi to Bray only costs €25.

o1s1n

I was in London over the Christmas and know exactly what you mean. A train ticket for a 30 minute ride from Luton airport to Kings cross cost me £11. One way. About the same price as a weekly student bus ticket over here. Madness.

o1s1n

kinaldo wrote:

Would Dubliners be expected to pay €80 for a taxi from the City Centre to Greystones? A taxi to Bray only costs €25.

A taxi to Bray only costs €25?. Is there some joke there I'm not picking up on?

kinaldo

o1s1n wrote:

A taxi to Bray only costs €25?. Is there some joke there I'm not picking up on?

Sorry I was thinking of Shankill. Close enough though, my point still stands.

FX Meister

Darren wrote:

Buffybot,

Do I take it that you find the extortionate daily overcharging in the UK to use public transport to line the pockets of fat cat rail bosses, shareholders and overpaid lazy train drivers reasonable????

I think he just doesn't get out much

o1s1n

kinaldo wrote:

Sorry I was thinking of Shankill. Close enough though, my point still stands.

Although your point still stands, I'm pretty sure a taxi to Shankill couldn't be as cheap as that. I recently paid €50 for one from Bray to Clontarf. Double the price for that little bit extra? hmm. I'm either being ripped off or you have discovered a really nice taxi driver!

kinaldo

o1s1n wrote:

Although your point still stands, I'm pretty sure a taxi to Shankill couldn't be as cheap as that. I recently paid €50 for one from Bray to Clontarf. Double the price for that little bit extra? hmm. I'm either being ripped off or you have discovered a really nice taxi driver!

I'll get someone to come on here and confirm it. He lives in Shankill and regularly gets taxis back from the city.

cardshark202

I get taxis from the city centre to shankill a couple of times a week and it has always cost between €22 and €25. I usually just give them €25 each. €50 to clontarf! Madness.

cardshark202

I think buffybot is a railway ticket agent.

daiixi

OP: they carry their rubbish with them until they find a bin to dispose of it in.

Also if you want somewhere cheap to stay maybe next time look into the hostel option. Usually works out cheap enough especially if you're with a group of people and are able to book out your own room.

o1s1n

I'll be avoiding Bray cabs in future. :eek:

The no bins thing in London caught me off guard too. Every day I'd end up with pocket fulls of rubbish. We really do take them for granted over here. Well the ones of us that actually use them

If you want cheap accommodation in London check out Kings Hotel. Its a bit of a state, smells of curry...but the sheets are clean, the locks on the doors work, its extremely cheap and only about 2 minutes away from Kings Cross station..

kinaldo

Andrew Clark in New York
Thursday December 21, 2006
Guardian Unlimited

New York's mayor, Michael Bloomberg, says London makes the Big Apple look cheap

A bagel with cream cheese is double the price, a tube fare is triple and the price of perfume leaves a nasty stench on Oxford Street compared to Fifth Avenue. The authorities in New York have begun an all-out assault on rip-off prices in Britain.

NYC & Company, an official marketing body controlled by New York's mayor, Michael Bloomberg, has taken out an aggressive advertising campaign in London pointing out that the British capital is one of the few cities in the world that makes the Big Apple look cheap.

Promotions put up this week at major railway stations highlight the impact of the strong pound, which is approaching a rate of two dollars for the first time in 14 years.

NYC & Co's head of tourism development, Fred Dixon, said: "Brits are probably the savviest travellers in the world - they're keenly aware of the value of their currency. They're very comfortable in New York - the language is the same, there are cultural ties and it's good value."

The advertisements at stations, which are merely the beginning of a wider initiative, lure commuters to a website which contains a "quiz" inviting visitors to guess just how expensive London prices are in comparison to those in New York.

With the exception of a one-off campaign after the September 11 terrorism attacks, the initiative is the first time New York has spent its marketing budget overseas.

Britain accounts for far more visitors to New York than any other nation - more than 1.2m British tourists are expected this year, outnumbering their closest rivals, the Germans, by three to one.

The average price for a taxi journey in New York is £3.70, compared to London's £7. A cruise on the river Thames costs £20.50 compared to £12 for a waterborne sightseeing trip in New York.

Sterling was hovering around a rate of $1.96 yesterday, compared to $1.60 four years ago. Airlines, including Virgin and British Airways, have reported a steady increase in passenger numbers across the Atlantic.

"Everybody is saying that the pound's peaking has made a tremendous impact on last-minute travel," said Mr Dixon.

http://business.guardian.co.uk/story/0,,1977132,00.html

BuffyBot

more specifically their transport, is a complete rip off

While it's not cheap, for the most part you get what you pay for. Compare London's public transport to Dublin's..Londons wins by a mile any day. Even some of the mainline train services, but not all, compare very favourably in comparison to CIE.

cardshark202

BuffyBot wrote:

While it's not cheap, for the most part you get what you pay for. Compare London's public transport to Dublin's..Londons wins by a mile any day. Even some of the mainline train services, but not all, compare very favourably in comparison to CIE.

Are you serious? Maybe I just got unlucky but several mainline and tube services were disrupted or cancelled on new years day due to staff shortages and 'industrial action'. The tube effected us (I was with kinaldo) but I heard the announcer in the station say about other services and their delays. I've never heard anything good about the british transport system. And with the prices as they are, it would be cheaper to fly around britain.

Dellas

I lived in London for 18 years and have been here for 10 years!!! Whilst I prefer here than London I have to say the public transport system on a whole here is a joke !!! I use the Intercity trains on a weekly basis and the fares are not cheap at all.

You complain about the price of a rail ticket from Luton Airport to Kings Cross but at least there is a rail link !!!

There are alot of discruptions on the rail network but then look how big the network is compared to the Irish one.

As for the rubbish , I think London is clean but I dont think Dublin is dirty. The rubbish bins were taken away from London streets years ago because they were used for planting bombs in especially in the mainline train stations !!!

I would advise anyone doing a similar trip to choose their accomodations more thouroughly and try to speak to people that have been there and get reccomendations. Im sure a post on here would bring up some names and contacts.

With regards the fares on the trains and the different ticket types, well I agree its a stupid system but thats privatisation for you !! They run it like an airline now.

Darren

An example -

from irishrail.ie

05Jan07 Kilkenny to Dublin Departing 0649
05Jan07 Dublin to Kilkenny Departing 1825
Return Price - E27.50

from nationalrail.co.uk

05Jan07 Swindon to London Paddington Departing 0649
05Jan07 London Paddington to Swindon Departing 1830
Return Price - £90 stg

Swindon to London is about 80miles. Kilkenny to Dublin is about 80 miles. I have chosen the cheapest available fares for both.

kinaldo

cardshark202 wrote:

I've never heard anything good about the british transport system.

Here you go

Tuesday, 29 August 2006

London voted best for transport

London's public transport system has been voted the best in the world in a survey of international tourists.

The UK capital also topped the poll as the most expensive city for transport, holiday review site TripAdvisor showed.

A quarter of the 2,000 people asked said London was the best overall for public transport, 16% voted for New York and 12% for Paris.

more

It would really want to be the best for what they charge. Still a rip off imo.

Nea

Long train journeys in the UK are definately cheaper once you book a day in advance( with virgin trains anyway).
I booked the train from London to Manchester at 9 o clock the night before the journey and it cost me £15, I got the train the next morning, I checked and it would have been £72 to pay on the day.
That is some saving for booking less that 24 hours before, although they are very strict on advance saver tickets and if you are late tough!!!

I found transport very reasonable when I lived in London,my travelcard was about £13(not zone 1) but let you use all buses. One trip from Newbridge to Heuston is roughly the same price!!

The 176 nightbus goes from Oxford Circus To SE London, Sydenham/Penge area which is not much use to you now.

Their transport system is so much better and cheaper if you know the avenues to avail of it.I think the main sting is changing the euro to the pound and getting feck all for it, which makes it seem a hell of a lot dearer.

jahalpin

I lived in London for 3 years a couple of years ago. The transport system is excellent, especially compared to here. While an Irish Rail train may be considered to be on time if its actually less than an hour late, the trains in the UK are considered late if they are more than a few minutes late, season ticket holders get refunds if the train is more than a few minutes late.

As for the train prices, the UK has always have different fare types depending on how flexible u are and how far in advance you book. I was looking at trains from London Euston to Manchester a few weeks ago and was able to get a single for 22stg. I also flew to Nottingham East Midland airport and was able to get a First-class advance purchase single to London for stg13, booked 2 days before departure.

Most leisure travellers would know their travel plans in advance and would be able to take advantage of the cheaper fares avaliable. Why Irish Rail doesn't implement a system like this is a mystery, I have never decided to take the train down the country at a moments notice and would therefore have been able to book the train in advance.

As for hotels, the hotels at Heathow and Croydon are normally a lot cheaper than the ones in central London, and as there are 24-hour bus services in London and a 24-hour train service from London Victoria - East Croydon there is no excuse for people to stay in a dump of a hotel in central London due to price, while, for roughly the same price they could stay at a nice hotel at these locations.During the day, there are high-speed services from Feltham - Waterloo and East Croydon - Vicroria \ Charring Cross \ London Bridge.

The train to Newcastle is the GNER service from Kings Cross, the circle line is not the only line to connect Kings Cross and Victoria, the Victoria line also connects these stations and you could have used this to get to the station on time for your booked train.

The best thing that the governent could do to improve the transport in Ireland would be to privatise Irish Rail, Bus Eireann and Dublin Bus. Contrary to what is generally reported in the UK, the privatised transport system is far better that the state monopolies that they replaced. If Bus Eireann and Dublin Bus were privatised non-profitable rural services would be served by Public Service Obligations where the state would contract these services to private operators to operate on their behalf.