Damn Library

gymrabbit

i got an email saying i need to renew my library books. I thought all books taken out over the holidays are due back on the 8th? no? also the online renewal thing doesn't seem to be working. anyone know what the story is?

gymrabbit

gymrabbit wrote:

i got an email saying i need to renew my library books. I thought all books taken out over the holidays are due back on the 8th? no? also the online renewal thing doesn't seem to be working. anyone know what the story is?

Just noticed the same problem myself. Odd.

Pet

Me three. And I've ****loads of books, I ain't dragging them all in to the damn library again. Fix it, library people/ISS!

John

Sit in protest in the library when term starts. Get longer hours while you're at it.

gymrabbit

Online renewal is back up.

Yeah but someone called in one of my books, and I couldn't make it in today. Hello fine.

gymrabbit

i got a 16 euro fine out of no where. i queried it and the guy accidently deleted it then put it back on so now he can't really explain how i got it.

Tricity Bendix

I'm breaking New Years Resolution No. 53 in order to say that this is a ****ing disgrace. I point blank refuse to pay any fine that I may incur before the 8th of January.

Degsy

Check the date stamp in your books to see when they are due back.A lot of books taken before the holidays are due back on the 2nd not the 8th!

Unshelved

If you're bright enough to get into college then you should be bright enough to check the date stamp on your book and check your online record

If you have a genuine reason for overdue books - like illness for example - staff are willing to waive your fine. If it's because you overlooked the above, then it's your own fault and you'll have to pay the fine.

Good luck with the refusing point blank approach - I'd be interested to see how far it gets you.

Degsy

Unshelved wrote:

Good luck with the refusing point blank approach - I'd be interested to see how far it gets you.

It'll prevent you renewing books online,if its above ten euro it'll prevent you borrowing at all and if its still there when you attempt to graduate your commencment will be blocked.

gymrabbit

Unshelved wrote:

If you're bright enough to get into college then you should be bright enough to check the date stamp on your book and check your online record

I love this attitude. It's a little bit harsh expecting people that come from all over the globe to return library books over their christmas holidays.

Unshelved

I love this attitude. It's a little bit harsh expecting people that come from all over the globe to return library books over their christmas holidays.

You're adults now - not adolescents - and it's up to you to take responsibility for your Library account.

If you can't make it into the Library then you can renew the books online. If online renewal is out of action, ring the Library before or by closing time on the due date and see if something can be sorted out for you.

If it's too much trouble to return books by their due date, then I suggest you don't borrow at all. Problem solved.

Finally, fines are 50c per book per day - this is less than one sixth of the price of a pint. Cry me a river.

Tricity Bendix

Unshelved wrote:

If you're bright enough to get into college then you should be bright enough to check the date stamp on your book and check your online record

I'm breaking my new years resolution one last time to say that I'm sick to the teeth of this kind of pompous attitude that is extremely common amongst library staff.

If you're bright enough to get a job working in a library you should be bright enough to accurately convey information.

I specificly remember the LA telling me that my book was due back on the 8th because we had a conversation about that very point. I thought it was a very considerate measure. Apparently, it didn't exist.

Time Magazine

Unshelved wrote:

If you can't make it into the Library then you can renew the books online.

I couldn't, nor could other users.

If online renewal is out of action, ring the Library before or by closing time on the due date and see if something can be sorted out for you.

I'm an undergraduate student starting new courses in two weeks that require textbooks which the library don't have enough copies of; I don't have phone credit. Would you like me to buy you some credit while I'm at it, too? I, too, was told that the book was not due back until the 8th. If I'm not mistaken there were signs stating as much, as well.

I was told by a librarian that my book was due back on the 8th; signs also stated this; the online renewal system was not working either of the times I tried to renew; how can you justify forcing me to make a phone call, at my expense, to rectify the situation?

If it's too much trouble to return books by their due date, then I suggest you don't borrow at all. Problem solved.

I, too, work in the Library. I've been complained to by a student (of Education, of course) that the books she left on her desk the night before had been shelved when she arrived at 10am the next morning. Students make ridiculous demands, this is not such an instance. I am telling you now that it is unreasonable to expect students to pay the fines for these books. To be perfectly honest ye all know the Library is quiet enough for ye to administer any paper-work to cancel these fines, I see Degsy and others on Boards all the time , where's the problem?

As far as I know there is an appeals process for just about every fine College administers, is there one for overdue fines? I suggest to any students who have a grievance about this to apply to go through said process upon return on Monday. We'll see if it's too much trouble, then.

Finally, fines are 50c per book per day - this is less than one sixth of the price of a pint. Cry me a river.

If it's so negligible to you I suggest you don't bemoan its loss.

Nietzschean

Ibid wrote:

how can you justify forcing me to make a phone call, at my expense, to rectify the situation?

Umm thats just being bitchy about it, borrow someone's phone or something, in the real world if you don't make a call or can appear to make the effort most people will tell you to fo in any similar circumstance. if you couldn't be arsed ring'n the library to clarify the situation, or moan that online renewals was down and you were far away then ye don't have much grounds to appeal or whatever. You knew about it on the day it appears, not after it...

if someone comes back and never heard about the second till next monday they might get some sympathy i suppose.... i personally have never read the inside of one of my library loan books ever, online reminder system ftw! (though in years gone by has the xmas library book thing not always been till the start of term?)

Time Magazine

Nietzschean wrote:

Umm thats just being bitchy about it, borrow someone's phone or something, in the real world if you don't make a call or can appear to make the effort most people will tell you to fo in any similar circumstance.

That's not the point. In the real world it would not be seen as reasonable practice to fine somebody after telling them a wrong date, twice, and then not having the standard renewal system inoperative for at least several hours during the one-day period of notice.

Ibid wrote:

As far as I know there is an appeals process for just about every fine College administers, is there one for overdue fines? I suggest to any students who have a grievance about this to apply to go through said process upon return on Monday. We'll see if it's too much trouble, then.

College Calender 2006-07, H15 wrote:

... Appeal against a Library penalty or decision of the Junior Dean is to the Disciplinary Committee.

Nietzschean

Ibid wrote:

That's not the point. In the real world it would not be seen as reasonable practice to fine somebody after telling them a wrong date, twice, and then not having the standard renewal system inoperative for at least several hours during the one-day period of notice.

aslong as they stamped the second and only verbally told you the 8th they can more or less do as they wish? your not paying for the service directly as a customer(heck companies who i am paying have done worse) so in my experence of companies regardless if they are really at fault unless u've something in writing(and its o so much worse since your thing in writing supports them telling u the 8th if they so claim) they will tell you to fo..

claire h

Signs in the Berkeley said January 2.

I do think it's a bit much that the library system was down for a good bit of that day, considering how many people were probably going to be renewing books, but they got it back up in time, so... yeah. *shrugs*

xeduCat

When I took out books before Christmas the sign said 2nd January - where were these 8th January signs located?

(I don't work in the library any longer)

Time Magazine

My mistake. I, too, was told January 8th and made the mistake of thinking the sign said it as well.

cianclarke

The signs were all over the hamilton mentioning January 2nd - which sent alarm bells ringing in my head, set me thinking "what use is January 2nd when I won't be in Dublin 'till January 7th"...

xeduCat

So in summary, the displayed notices said 2nd January, the library re-opened on 2nd January, the date stamp said 2nd January, the online record said 2nd January, but some students were told by (one? many?) library staff members that the due date was 8th January. Then it seems like there were a very small number of cases of human error, perhaps capable of being solved without resolution to refuse to pay and activation of appeals procedures. Also, where there are problems with access to the online catalogue, I've seen (from student and staff side) general flexibility with regard to fines or renewals where there's been an honest problem.

By the way, the idea of complaining about the cost of a phone call when a website is down is just a little silly it's a pain but it's something that people do day in, day out, and I've never managed to get my 25c refund out of any of them.

Time Magazine

xeduCat wrote:

So in summary, the displayed notices said 2nd January, the library re-opened on 2nd January, the date stamp said 2nd January, the online record said 2nd January, but some students were told by (one? many?) library staff members that the due date was 8th January. Then it seems like there were a very small number of cases of human error, perhaps capable of being solved without resolution to refuse to pay and activation of appeals procedures.

My spin on it differs slightly . I was told the 8th. I get an email on the 1st saying you either have to renew the book, or return to College out of term to avoid a fine. I try to renew the book mid-morning, the system is down. I try again in the afternoon/evening, system down. I face a fine because I didn't renew, out of term, with the renewal system not functioning.

Also, where there are problems with access to the online catalogue, I've seen (from student and staff side) general flexibility with regard to fines or renewals where there's been an honest problem.

That's all well and good then. I mentioned that there's ample room to do any necessary paper-work. However responses such as "If it's too much trouble to return books by their due date, then I suggest you don't borrow at all" and "Cry me a river" don't exactly infer flexibility.

By the way, the idea of complaining about the cost of a phone call when a website is down is just a little silly

Yep I know. And Meteor gave me €6 free credit today anyway. I was being forceful about my point that showing no flexibility from one requires flexibility from another. In this case, "Cry me a river ... call us" deserves the response "Who says I can call you?".

Obviously if there's some flexibility (read common sense) my assertion of lack of reason is duly waivered .

John

Unshelved, why has it changed this year from books being due the first day of term to books being due on the first day open of the year? The library is just asking for headache hear from students complaining or is the library funding become so low that it has started to engineer tricks to get students to pay fines? And in fairness, most of the time the stamp is useless if you've renewed the book online at any stage but my woes with this system are another day's typing.

Unshelved

Unshelved, why has it changed this year from books being due the first day of term to books being due on the first day open of the year? The library is just asking for headache hear from students complaining or is the library funding become so low that it has started to engineer tricks to get students to pay fines? And in fairness, most of the time the stamp is useless if you've renewed the book online at any stage but my woes with this system are another day's typing.

There has been no change - to the best of my knowledge this has always been the case. It is not some kind of a "trick" - signs were up, books were stamped, and as I said before students can check their record at any time to see when their books are due back. Finally - and if you will excuse me repeating myself - when there is a genuine reason for not returning your books on time, then fines can be waived. Try talking to the Duty Librarian if you feel an injustice has been done to you. If for some reason you cannot renew your books on the day that they are due back then you should ring the Duty Librarian's desk straight away - if there is a problem then they might be able to do something about it. Waiting until after they go overdue, and then complaining about fines on a message board is not a constructive solution to your problem.

Fines are not in place to fund the Library - they are in place to ensure that books are returned. (Face it - would you return a book on time if there wasn't a fine system?).

Suggestions from Library users as to how the system can be improved are always welcome. Email them in through the webpage or drop them into the suggestion box in the Iveagh Hall.

Degsy

Ibid wrote:

To be perfectly honest ye all know the Library is quiet enough for ye to administer any paper-work to cancel these fines, I see Degsy and others on Boards all the time , where's the problem?.

The problem is that there's more to working in a library than "administering paperwork" for people who have racked up fines.Do you think the books find thier way onto the shelves by themselves?How do the books reach the library in the first place?When you have 1000+ people to serve per day,each with different needs(staff,postgrad,alcid,SBP,outside readers,undergrads),there's also ordering,processing,cataloguing,re-cataloguing,reading lists,shelving,querys,labelling,printing of notices,sending of overdue letters,credit card transactions..the list goes on.So,when you borrow a book its assumed that you know the procedure and that the book has to be returned on or before teh date thats stamped in the book.You can check the imformation online to see when they are due back if you dont beleive the date stamp and you can also renew the books online without ever having to visit the library.The "gentle reminder" notices are a courtesy measure to ensure you havnt forgotten all about them whilst jollying it up over rthe holidays.Basicly,its made very easy indeed to borrow,renew or return books and this is all due to the work of the staff.IF the books are returned late without a valid reason and "i THOUGHT they were due back on the 8th" isnt one of them then you WILL be fined.

John

Unshelved wrote:

There has been no change

It was first day of term the previous four years at the very least as I've always had books out over Christmas and brought them back/renewed just at the start of term. I always thought it was a great idea for people who didn't live in Dublin but obviously things have changed this year. The fact that most of the final years here assumed it was first day of term would also imply to me that first day of term was the usual return date so I was just wondering why things would change this year.

Check Degsy's post John, he said that some of the books are due back on the 8th so perhaps you before had books due back on the 8th. I can't remember when books were due back last year to be quite honest, but there was a problem with the online system telling people to bring back their books on (say) the Tuesday and people only received it on Wednesday.

Crash

yeah I got that - was hilarious :P