wiring question

mukki

set up a sensor and a seperate light outside


the sensor needed 3 wires - live in, neutral and live out (no earth point because its made of pastic)

anyway the sensor was about 20feet from the light (which was allready wired)

so to be lazy and economical i just ran a 3 core cable between the sensor and light, used the live for the live in (the mains live to the sensor live in), the neutral for the neutral (the mains + lights neutral to the sensor neutral) and the earth for the live out (the sensro live out to the lights live)

this saved me from using 2 lengths of wire and drilling more holes, and to be honest, a single 3 core cable connects to the lights and sensor much tidier and easier

anyway just posting to get other users opinions on the safety of it all

It might be a good idea to put some brown (or red if old cable) insulation tape around the switched live just to identify it in the future.

Avns1s

It's not safe at all TBH.

Suppose some unsuspectind person comes lookign to wire in something in the future and sees an easy option to get a live neutral and earth from the cetre of that cable, then whatever he has wired will be live when your light comes on.

AFAIK It is possible to get a 4 core 1.5mm. sq. cable which would have had a black core as the second live. This would then be safe and conform to regs.

dolittle

not only unsafe but illegal

mukki

Avns1s wrote:

It's not safe at all TBH.

Suppose some unsuspectind person comes lookign to wire in something in the future and sees an easy option to get a live neutral and earth from the cetre of that cable, then whatever he has wired will be live when your light comes on.

AFAIK It is possible to get a 4 core 1.5mm. sq. cable which would have had a black core as the second live. This would then be safe and conform to regs.

yeah i thought about someone fitting a joiner box along it, so i set up a double socket in the attic nearby

that 4 core cable sounds like what i should have done,maybe next time, doubt i'll fix it now, took me over 2 months to get around to installing this stuff

not only unsafe but illegal

probably against regulations alright, but illegal??? come on!, except maybe for an electrician

cast_iron

mukki wrote:

probably against regulations alright, but illegal??? come on!, except maybe for an electrician

Well on a technical point, against regulations = illegal.

Anyways, I've seen electricians do it also. It's not such a big deal.If the earth screening is well stripped back, and the wire taped with brown (not red) tape, then it's as safe enough. In any case, it's you house, right? Not a public building?

The 4 core was the way to go though.

beldin

Just a quick query, slightly related.
I had an electrician add in an extra light connection from a switch, he used yellow wire. Now I haven't ever seen yellow anywhere , just green/yellow but is he totally wrong or is this a different practice.

dolittle

yellow is a phase colour, so its ok
new phase colours are brown as the first phase black as the 2nd phase and grey as the third phase.other colours can be used as phase colours the exceptions are blue, green and green/yellow
if its against the regulations then it is illegal wheather you are an electrician or not

Copper

not only unsafe but illegal

I lol'd, so serious. You're going to jail for using the wrong core colours mukki.

We don't have wiring regulations in this country anyway, only wiring rules which don't have EN status and so application is voluntary.

You could wire your light anyway you wanted and it would be legal.

cast_iron

Copper wrote:

We don't have wiring regulations in this country anyway, only wiring rules which don't have EN status and so application is voluntary.

What about the IEEE wiring regulations?

Copper

They're British afaik. We work off the "ETCI National Rules for Electrical Installations" in Ireland, they have a quasi-legal status which it would take a lawyer to explain, in that they are rules not regulations.

As electrical contractors we voluntarily undertake to follow these rules in our installations, its a condition of membership of the self-regulatory bodies RECI and ECCSA. The ESB also require you to sign a declaration saying your installation complies with the rules before they will approve applications for new connections. Basically the Wiring Rules are a sensible set of standards for electrical installations.

Vertical

The British organisation you are talking about is the IEE. IEEE is a different International organisation.

I bought a very useful, no-nonsense book from the British IEE website (www.iee.org). Its called "Electricians Guide to the Building Regulations" (ISBN 0 86341 463 X) and is suitable for the layman with some electrical knowledge.
It includes information on the harmonised cable colours etc.

Are there any electricians who would care to comment on its suitability for Ireland?

Beach Head

Remembering back to my apprenticeship, I had to do both exams City and Guilds (English) and Senior Trades (Irish). The only major difference as far as I can remember was with phase colours on a 3 phase supply. All formulae are the same for cable size calcs etc and the basic rules are the same. I actually prefer the IEE Regs as they are Regulations and not just Rules. Its gas here that we have rules that we are supposed to abide by but when it suits most sparks they just say feck it and do whatever they like.

The guy who wired my house a year and a half ago did not install the supply to the oil boiler correctly, did not install the distribution board correctly nor did he put feck all denzo on the earth rod. To be fair it was only an apprentice who did it but thought he was the dogs. No completion cert either because half the guys out there dont even know how to test an installation. And RECI are not really doing there job properly. Hell they even let you know in writing that they are going to visist and ask what installation that you want them to look at! A sham!

As to the original question by the way. I dont think a lot of people get the idea, sparks included that just because an appliance does not require an earth (Like the light) the cable (Bundled cores like flex or NYMJ) does require one core to be an earth conductor (I Think!) Well I would always make sure that one was earth. If for example you were carrying something metallic and it struck the cable you would have no chance of protection against shock. At least if one core was earth you would have some chance.

davelerave

they (reci)do arrange to meet at your convenience alright.we'd have all our mates out on lookout otherwise. i suppose it's more civilised this way as they
and ecssa try to educate and train up sparkies for the good of the customer

ethernet

Maplin have this book on IEEE standards: www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=22590&criteria=IEEE&doy=6m1.