Is this the end of violence in Iraq

Heinrich

What happens next? Is this simply a revenge execution or will it bring along the lasting peace that Blair and Bush promised?

The former Iraqi dictator, Saddam Hussein, has been executed in Baghdad.

The interim Iraqi Government announced that he was executed by hanging for crimes against humanity at an unspecified location in Baghdad.

Iraqi television said the execution was carried out at 3am Irish time this morning.

It stated that the execution was filmed and that a doctor and a representative of the Iraqi Prime Minister were present.

Saddam was sentenced to death by an Iraqi court last month after a year-long trial over the 1982 killings of 148 Shias in the town of Dujail.

philologos

It will only bring about more sectarian violence in Iraq between Shias, Sunnis and maybe violence towards the Kurdish population. The Sunnis will be angered as many saw him as a heroic figure.

Edit: too late Al Jazeera English claims that at least 34 people have been killed in the Iraqi city of Kufa in a carbomb.

maireadmarie

' ' ` It's another sad day....

cold_filter

Jakkass wrote:

It will only bring about more sectarian violence in Iraq between Shias, Sunnis and maybe violence towards the Kurdish population. The Sunnis will be angered as many saw him as a heroic figure.

Edit: too late Al Jazeera English claims that at least 34 people have been killed in the Iraqi city of Kufa in a carbomb.

Carbomb, thats not an upsurge in violence due to his death they happen everyday if not quite a few carbombs per day.

What do you think Heinrich? We do ask thread starters to give their opinion otherwise we close the thread.
You have untill later today to do so.

In the meantime I'll give mine.
No.
I think normality will continue in Iraq ie the same number of boring bombings as in recent years.

A Dub in Glasgo

No it will not end the violence. It was a revenge execution. There are plenty of others who deserve justice for slaughtering civilians.

Perversely, Iraq may need to be broken up to stem the violence

leninbenjamin

in the eyes of some Saddam is now a martyr. The situation only has the potential to get worse because of it. They would have been better off letting him rot in some cell, so that he fades from the public image and let people forget and move on (if that is ever truely possible in Iraq)...

Akrasia

how on earth could anyone claim that killing Saddam will end the violence?

The violence is not about Saddam, It's about sectarianism and anti occupation.

Oh, and while car bombs are the 'sexy' way to kill people, the vast majority of deaths in Iraq are as a result of gun attacks (and many of these are executions following torture)

There have been at least 600,000 iraqi deaths since the invasion. forget anything you read in the mainstream press, it's far worse than that.

While I agree with leninbanjamin about making him a martyr, at least they did it quickly and quietly and minimised the possibility of organising a reaction around the event.

Akrasia

Deleted User wrote:

While I agree with leninbanjamin about making him a martyr, at least they did it quickly and quietly and minimised the possibility of organising a reaction around the event.

um, wait a few days until the internet is crawling with pictures of saddam's hanging and see how quick and quiet the execution was

Akrasia

Akrasia wrote:

see how quick and quiet the execution was

I don't have to wait a few days. It was within a matter of days of the appeal, and they didn't exactly advertise it, sell tickets and hold it in a football stadium.

gandalf

No of course it won't. If you want to put a fire out you do not throw a bucket of petrol over it.

Heinrich

Tristrame wrote:

What do you think Heinrich? We do ask thread starters to give their opinion otherwise we close the thread.
You have untill later today to do so.

In the meantime I'll give mine.
No.
I think normality will continue in Iraq ie the same number of boring bombings as in recent years.

My opinion? I believe that the whole Iraqi mess is a slipshod gigantic effort by the Americans and their ass licker Brits to make themselves look good for the millions of stupid voters. Saddam kept the warring factions apart and albeit as a despot that is exactly the way these countries work best. Hanging him for the television viewers' delight is just another sad chapter in that mess!

As for your boring car bombings please truy to spare a thought for the thousands who die so boringly. We are well away from the hardship od that beleagured country and have to rely on a very Americanised and biased media for information to enable us to come to comments such as you are proffering.

philologos

I personally don't think that he should have been hung, but thats my opinion. He should have been jailed for life in a maximum security prison. Trial should have also been done in the Hague.

Heinrich

Heinrich wrote:

As for your boring car bombings please truy to spare a thought for the thousands who die so boringly. We are well away from the hardship od that beleagured country and have to rely on a very Americanised and biased media for information to enable us to come to comments such as you are proffering.

I do of course spare a thought for them,its a pity the bombers don't.
Hypocrites.

is_that_so

In an ideal world he could have been taken to The Hague and spent a couple of years in denial like Milosevic. An ideal world would also have had to have included a bloodless coup and smooth transition of power in Iraq. As things did turn out the execution was the only likely outcome. I personally don't support the death penalty but it is extremely hard to argue against it in this case, even allowing for the kangaroo court conviction.

As regards the violence it will probably be business as usual. Saddam may be invoked by some as a martyr but that is not as powerful as the notion of "invaders" and the promotion of jihad. The solution to it appears to be currently beyond all protagonists.

Without security guarantees the chances of winning the local hearts and minds are drastically reduced. The next move is down to the US and their "new strategy" and even if it is joined up thinking it will take months to take effect.

Akrasia

gandalf wrote:

No of course it won't. If you want to put a fire out you do not throw a bucket of petrol over it.

you would if you were a lunatic 'hawk' who believes the best way to fight fire, is with fire.

But that's just an aside (I hate that feckin phrase)

ghostdancer

a revenge execution.

the violence will continue until the social problems of Iraq are sorted out, and no amount of executing those who were in charge of the former regime, nor attempts to stop those attacking coalition troops, will change that.
while troops representing countries who imposed economic restrictions on Iraq, stay in the country, there will always be a backlash from those who suffered as a result of these restrictions, and there are a hell of a lot of them.
if history has taught us one thing, people don't like foreign occupiers of their land, especially those occupiers who have a history of bringing misery on the country.

Frederico

If Saddam was in power Iraq would be better than it is today.. anyone wanna disagree with that?.. His execution was by Americans for the American public, who he never did anything to.. its disgusting.

gandalf

Akrasia wrote:

you would if you were a lunatic 'hawk' who believes the best way to fight fire, is with fire.

But that's just an aside (I hate that feckin phrase)

Well unfortunately the Hawks won today and gave a vicious murderer the martyrs death that he craved instead of letting him rot in a cell for the rest of his days.

constitutionus

Deleted User wrote:

While I agree with leninbanjamin about making him a martyr, at least they did it quickly and quietly and minimised the possibility of organising a reaction around the event.

agreed. we all knew this was coming and a prolonged period to the execution wouldve been a rallying point for combatants. even with the low key affair there was still a car bombing

im some what mixed on this issue. im one of the 38% that voted to retain the death penalty so ive no problem with him hanging but i dont think any rational person can say he got a fair trial, what with even judges being replaced on one occasion. i'd much rather he was judged in the hague albeit expidited beyond the snails pace of previous trials. it mightnt be perfect but it'd be a hell of alot more impartial. as it stands considering his last words i cant help thinking theyve handed him martyrhood

as to this bringing about an end of the violence? no chance in hell. this has moved waaaay beyond sadam being toppled and i reckon it wont end till the country breaks up. even then you'll probably end up with a india/pakistan situation with a third party. not to mention the possibility of iran invading

*EDIT* by the way am i the only one who thinks it looked like the R.A we're contracted to do the hanging? bloody strange scene that with 3 lads in balaclavas

Orizio

gandalf wrote:

No of course it won't. If you want to put a fire out you do not throw a bucket of petrol over it.

I don't really know where this is coming from.Saddam seems to be irrelevent in Iraqi politics since the US found him in that hole.Whatever about threats from certain Baathist groups, the nature of the insurgency is such that the ability and power of the groups that make such threats is hard to determine.At most I think we may see a short term increase in attacks to make good such threats-but Saddam is not a player anymore and there is very little reason to believe his execution will change anything.

maz-mar

Saddam should have died a slow suffering death. Hanging was too good for him

Manic Moran

Orizio wrote:

I don't really know where this is coming from.Saddam seems to be irrelevent in Iraqi politics since the US found him in that hole.Whatever about threats from certain Baathist groups, the nature of the insurgency is such that the ability and power of the groups that make such threats is hard to determine.At most I think we may see a short term increase in attacks to make good such threats-but Saddam is not a player anymore and there is very little reason to believe his execution will change anything.

+1.

It's certainly not going to improve matters, might give a couple of days of goodwill to the Coalition troops but that's it. Similarly, I don't see a massive upswing in violence as a cause: Most Sunni and Ba'athist groups are publicly on record as disassociating themselves from Saddam.

The problem with sending him to the Hague is that the Hague wouldn't pass a death sentence. For whatever the opinions of people in Ireland, Holland, UK, US or anywhere else, the only people whose opinion matters in this case is that of the Iraqis, and they seem quite content to keep it. There would be quite a bit of dis-satisfaction if he were found guilty, but still allowed to live out a natural life.

NTM

Voipjunkie

Manic Moran wrote:

+1.



The problem with sending him to the Hague is that the Hague wouldn't pass a death sentence. For whatever the opinions of people in Ireland, Holland, UK, US or anywhere else, the only people whose opinion matters in this case is that of the Iraqis, and they seem quite content to keep it. There would be quite a bit of dis-satisfaction if he were found guilty, but still allowed to live out a natural life.

NTM

The problem with the Hague is that they would have had to have had a fair trial unlike the trial in Iraq
And the US could not send him to a court they do not recognise.


The truth is that the US has achieved absolutely nothing they got rid of a murdering thug and have replaced him with a different bunch of murdering thugs.
The scene of the hanging is proof of that people in balaclavas and leather jackets it looked like the actions of some second rate gang of criminals and not like a state execution.

Bush and Blair have made the world a far more dangerous place with their ill conceived invasion the killing of Saddam is irrelevant as the vast majority of those fighting the US/UK have little or no time for him. It wont make the situation any worse or any better it will continue on the path it has been on for the last 3 years into bloody civil war and eventually the US/Uk will leave with their tail between their legs.
The real surprise is that it is going to happen much quicker than any of us ever really thought they will be gone or nearly gone within the next 2 years and then we will probably have a bitter civil war for the next 10/20 years

Voipjunkie

maz-mar wrote:

Saddam should have died a slow suffering death. Hanging was too good for him

Do you always support murder or just the murder of those you strongly dislike.The irony is that people who say things like this are no better than Saddam he believed in murdering people he disliked as well.


I have no time for Saddam but you dont prove how barbaric he was by getting a bunch of people in balaclavas to hang him to show how civilised people behave.

If murder is wrong then surely it is always wrong.

Voipjunkie

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

Perversely, Iraq may need to be broken up to stem the violence

That is unlikely to work either as despite the regular Shia south, Kurdish North , Sunni middle it is not as simple as that as their are huge population of sunnis and shias living in the area dominated by the other side. The likely hood is that even the break up of Iraq will not stem the violence.
Whatever the eventual outcome will be it will not come around as long as the US and their allies remain in Iraq only a full withdrawal will have any hope of eventually leading to peace.

gandalf

Just a word of warning, the full execution video is out on the net. Do not post any links to it here, if you do you will be banned and the link edited out.

Akrasia

gandalf wrote:

Just a word of warning, the full execution video is out on the net. Do not post any links to it here, if you do you will be banned and the link edited out.

That is what I meant when I replied to conor's point saying that 'at least it was quick and quiet'

I knew the video and photographs would be online in a matter of hours or days, and those images will do nothing in Iraq but provoke more violence (they will probably be good for Bush's popularity rating at home though so of course they were going to be released)