no you r fecking lieing u r drunk not stutter

luckys_79

hi guys,
I am person who stutters and its very hard for to some situations like replying to ahourity figurs. one night i was driving and was stopped by gardai and garda askd few questions like where i coming from and where heading off too.. and i got very nervous and stutterd heavily and stuck many times. cos other people in car thay had drinks and garda could smell of alcohoal, garda hought i had drink, and asked me to hand over the keys. and sit in their car they i was brought to garda station and was asked to sign the form and i was asked if i have any problem or i take any drugs or medicine. my answer was 'no' as stuttering cnt b considered as medical problem its more like disability or nurol..
well after half an hour waiting i was brought into a room and was asked to provide the breath test and to blow into breathlyser. i was getting nervous and trying to relax myself, while garda was explaining me all bout breathlyser and wat to do. so i started blowing into breathlyser but i coudnt blow enough so machine accepeted any reading. my hands were shaking and i was feeling out of breath. cos it was very little time to blow hard into machine to give some reading. i said to garda i have severe stuttering problem and usually i m out of breath, so i need extra time. but garda lashed back angrily on me and said u r ****ing lieing..why u didnt say this thiing on reception when u were asked if u have any med prob. u r ****ing lie.' my words were breaking badly and were frightned more by garda's response. i tried to explain to him stuttering is not called medi prob but its disability. but garda never listen to me and handed over to breathlyser pipe and asked me to blow and saying i deal with people like u everyday. and its not bother me u blow hard or not into this u gona loose ur driviing license for two years and ll b deported back where u from china or watever.. i blown in again but again wasnt enough air to get reading. garda was getting crazy. i siad u can have my blood or urine sample as i m not feeling confortable with machine or u give me extra time to relax. but garda was probably hurry to go home as it early morning. and he charged with me 'refusal to provide breath sample'.
even i was saying pls listen to me i m not refusing u can check alcohal content in me any way u want to.. but garda replied say this things to ur solicitor....

i was free then with chargesheet inn my hand..
i wondering wat kinda training is garda given to deal wth people who stuttering disablities. instead of listeing to problem, garda got angry on me. oh god..
i been attending the 'adult stuttering course 05' and still attend the meetings of dublin adult stutters. and i have full my records when i went for therapy and self help groups
garda should had given me extra time to relax and should spoken calmly..
well..
i want to get more information that if anybody has any suggestion for me wat can i do now.. so pls reply
thanks in advance
gurdip s
dublin

spurious

Make a formal complaint to the sergeant at that station. Bring a friend with you if you feel the stress might set your stutter off again.

The unprofessionalism of some guards is a disgrace and unless more people complain it will continue.

Turner

Go to your doctor and see if he will provide a letter saying that you have breathing problems as a result of stuttering. You might need documentation from your stuttering group also. Bring both of these for presentation to the judge.

The Garda formed his opinion that you were drunk (even if you were not) and a legal demamd was made for you to provide a sample with the penaltys explained if you failed or refused. Now it a matter for the Judge on the court date.

The machines are not that hard to blow into it. People with asthma and bad heart conditions regularly believe that they will not be able to provide a sample but generally have a problem.

It does not have to be a hard breath just a continuous one. Regularly they get people trying to suck on them or blow too weakly thinking they can change the result.

As for the behaviour of the Garda in question, Garda Stations generally are not a nice enviroment to be in but generally if you are courteous and well behaved you should not have a problem. Most nights the gardai who work in busy stations will come up against violence and aggression, patience can strain when dealing with drunk prisoners constantly.

But as they say.. if you cant stand the heat.... get out of the kitchen. They knew what they signed up for on joining.

dats_right

Sorry folks,

but Doctor's letters and complaints aren't immediate concerns. They can be dealt with, if necessary later after you have taken specialised advice. I am a trainee solicitor who works in Road Traffic law, so I perhaps know a little bit more than the well intentioned posters so far. But by far the most important thing you need, indeed as a matter of urgency, is to get yourself an experienced solicitor who specialises in this field (PM me I can give you a list of recommended practitioners).

Unfortuntaley, put very simply refusing to give a specimen of breath is in the purposes of the law the same as providing a positive sample. And whilst it is not for me to question your story, I must warn you that every conceivable excuse and reason has been argued for failing to provide a sample(and almost always rejected) in the Courts, so don't expect a sympathetic ear!

I am not going to offer you specific advice, but I would say that in a case such as this it is not uncommon for costs to be extremely high. Especially, if you are serious about getting off you may well decide that in addition to a solicitor, you may want to instruct a barrister and possibly expert medical witness/es. All of course at your own expense, as Criminal Legal Aid is almost never granted in Drink Driving cases.

dermot_sheehan

I agree with the above poster about immediatly seeking legal advice.

Unfortunatly if you're a driver you are obliged to provide a sample of breath when directed to by a garda if he's of the opinion that you are drunk. You can elect to provide blood or urine instead (which the original poster might want to do should a similar situation occur in the future), though the garda is not obliged to inform you of your right to provide blood or urine in lieu of breath.

Unfortunatly section 13(2) of the Road Traffic Act 1994 http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/ZZA7Y1994S13.html (as amended by the Road Traffic Act 2006 http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/bills28/acts/2006/A2306.pdf) carries rather severe penalties.

The judge can impose a penalty of up to 6 months in prison and a fine of up to €5,000. Section 2 of the Road Traffic Act 1995 http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/ZZA7Y1995S2.html also provides a consequential disqualification order (i.e. automatic driving ban) of 2 years upon conviction.

The offence is strict liability (i.e. the state doesn't have to prove intent), there is however a defence of special and substantial reasons under section 23 fo the act http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/ZZA7Y1994S23.html. It would be wise to get legal counsel and documented proof if you are aruging this in court.

jhegarty

gabhain7 wrote:

You can elect to provide blood or urine instead (which the original poster might want to do should a similar situation occur in the future), though the garda is not obliged to inform you of your right to provide blood or urine in lieu of breath.

he does say "i siad u can have my blood or urine sample as i m not feeling confortable with machine or u give me extra time to relax."... so it appear he tried to take that option....

UrbanFox

This was disgraceful, lazy and ignorant treatment.

However, I must agree with recent posters and would urge you to get good advice promptly as you now have a serious legal problem that needs to be handled expertly.

Incidentally, although your passengers had consumed alcohol did any of them hear the various transactions between you and the arresting garda ? It would be interesting to know if any of them witnessed directly (as distinct from what you may have subsequently told them) your conversations in relation to the breath sample, the offer of other samples and so on before the transactions in the garda station.

For future reference could you have some kind of laminated card made up that explains your particular problem ? It might help you or anyone with a similar difficulty.

You have my sympathies and I hope that this works out well for you. Please post again if there are any developments as I would love to see how you get on.

dermot_sheehan

jhegarty wrote:

he does say "i siad u can have my blood or urine sample as i m not feeling confortable with machine or u give me extra time to relax."... so it appear he tried to take that option....

Didn't spot that,
it appears from reading the statute that although gardai generally give you the option of submitting blood or urine, it appears they are under no statutory obligation to do so:

13.—(1) Where a person is arrested under section 49 (8) or 50 (10) of the Principal Act or section 12 (3), or where a person is arrested under section 53 (6), 106 (3A) or 112 (6) of the Principal Act and a member of the Garda Síochána is of opinion that the person has consumed an intoxicant, a member of the Garda Síochána may, at a Garda Síochána station, at his discretion, do either or both of the following—

( a ) require the person to provide, by exhaling into an apparatus for determining the concentration of alcohol in the breath, 2 specimens of his breath and may indicate the manner in which he is to comply with the requirement,

( b ) require the person either—

(i) to permit a designated doctor to take from the person a specimen of his blood, or

(ii) at the option of the person, to provide for the designated doctor a specimen of his urine,

and if the doctor states in writing that he is unwilling, on medical grounds, to take from the person or be provided by him with the specimen to which the requirement in either of the foregoing subparagraphs related, the member may make a requirement of the person under this paragraph in relation to the specimen other than that to which the first requirement related.

luckys_79

hi folks
many thanks for great-2 support!

well as i talked to my speech therapist and explained about whole story, and he explained me, stuttering can make u nervous, can cause ANXIETY, FEARS, AND U CAN RUN OUT OF BREATH during a very tense situtation like this, when the person in authority dnt believe on u that u r a person who stammer, but THEY THINK Ur SPEECH IS SLURRYING BECAUSE OF ALCOHAL, this cause stress, fear, shame, anxiety which others just see tip of it and everything is just goin inside of a person who stutter. but he said 'in general stuttering cant stop someone to blow into breathlyser'. so u coudnt blow into breathlyser cos of ur 'anxiety disorder' or 'fear' that made impossible for u to blow in breathlyser. as he is 'speech therapist' and his job is to deal speech probs but he is not expert upon anxiety disorder or breathing!!!!!!

in the mean time i also logged onto the 'stuttering chat' page and ask for advice. i got very so many replies and came to know there same happened to many people. even one case one person was arressted for slurring speeh while driving, by police, thought he was drunk, but later when policeman came to know about his stuttering, he applozised.

many people advice me to seek note from 'psychiatrist' or 'pshycologist'.
even my speech therapist is recommending me its 'anxiety disorder' issue to fail to blow into. and i think a psychiatrist or psychologist can explain my mental health situtation. or i dnt know wat should i do.??

pls advice

luckys_79

hi folks
many thanks for great-2 support!

well as i talked to my speech therapist and explained about whole story, and he explained me, stuttering can make u nervous, can cause ANXIETY, FEARS, AND U CAN RUN OUT OF BREATH during a very tense situtation like this, when the person in authority dnt believe on u that u r a person who stammer, but THEY THINK Ur SPEECH IS SLURRYING BECAUSE OF ALCOHAL, this cause stress, fear, shame, anxiety which others just see tip of it and everything is just goin inside of a person who stutter. but he said 'in general stuttering cant stop someone to blow into breathlyser'. so u coudnt blow into breathlyser cos of ur 'anxiety disorder' or 'fear' that made impossible for u to blow in breathlyser. as he is 'speech therapist' and his job is to deal speech probs but he is not expert upon anxiety disorder or breathing!!!!!!

in the mean time i also logged onto the 'stuttering chat' page and ask for advice. i got very so many replies and came to know there same happened to many people. even one case one person was arressted for slurring speeh while driving, by police, thought he was drunk, but later when policeman came to know about his stuttering, he applozised.

many people advice me to seek note from 'psychiatrist' or 'pshycologist'.
even my speech therapist is recommending me its 'anxiety disorder' issue to fail to blow into. and i think a psychiatrist or psychologist can explain my mental health situtation. or i dnt know wat should i do.??

pls advice

Savman

I'm gonna open a can of worms here I think. Don't you have to declare to your insurance company if you have condition? And did you tick the "Yes" box on your license application form that asked you if you had any medical condition or disabilities?

If not, that could've been your pre-emptive mistake. Just a thought...

Heisenberg.

This post has been deleted.

toffeeman

Hi Gurdip,

I think you should report this guy for racist abuse.


I've sent you a pm

M

Turner

toffeeman wrote:

Hi Gurdip,

I think you should report this guy for racist abuse.

M

On what grounds..

luckys_79

well
even if i tried 'racial abuse'.. i know myself its impossible to prove because there was only three persons were in room, 1. me, 2. garda who arrested me 3. who was abusing me not to enough blow into breathlyser..garda who arrested me will ofcourse say no such(abuse) thing happend. moreover i seen now in district courtroom, judge never listen to defendent anyway. judge believe watever garda says is truth, rest is lie!!
even on my court date,in court... my solicitor asked to both garda did u ever notice any stammer or stutter or defendent ever told u about his stammer? both garda's answer was 'no' and defendent didnt mention anything about his stutter.. fair enough now gardai r speaking truth. but my solictor noticed that in charge-sheet it was written that defendent told garda that 'he has stammer'.
so my solicitor asking to garda why it is written in ur statement when he failed or refused to blow into bretahlyser?? garda replied its not in my book...i dnt know how it is in chargesheet!!!!!
garda's face was red in courtroom!!
so clearly it was proven that i tried to explain my stutter in very stress situtation.i said to garda usually i m out of breath in very tense situtations, and my anxiety levels were so high on that time. but garda never believe on me that i have any stammer!!!

next question my solicitor asked to garda that did defendent ever offered blood or urine sample? now garda thinkin for a sec and replied 'yes' i remember at one stage he offered blood or urine sample.'
my solicitor looking at chargesheet and asked garda what this thing is not written in ur report that he offered blood or urine sample himself??
why u didnt write this in chargesheet??

garda has no answer. garda was so embarrased and frustrated
he was just looking around..

before garda could say thing judge start speeking that in law defendent can refuse to blow in brathlyser if he has 'reasonable excuse' for it.
judge was just lashing on garda and state solicotor when she asked me ' wat u were asked at reception if u have any medical condition or not?
nobody ever told me stuttering is a medical condition and i never had any medicine or drug for stuttering. i was asked in garda station if i have any medical condition or u take any medicine for it? ofcourse stuttering is not medical condition and there is no medicine for it.
if u read article on stutter , our speech starts with breathing, articulation, whole speech mechnism works(chest, neck, lung, diaphram) and then speech is produced.
usually a person who is covert stutter has anxiety, fear, frustration and above all breathing abnormalities, shortness of breath,

• Breathing abnormalities during stuttering, especially upper chest tension.
• Laryngeal blocks, which cut off airflow during stuttering.
• Articulation problems, including tension in the lips, jaw and tongue, and prolonged or repeated sounds.
• Secondary or 'escape' behaviours, such as twitching, head jerks, eye blinking, or facial grimaces.

Raekwon

Savman wrote:

I'm gonna open a can of worms here I think. Don't you have to declare to your insurance company if you have condition? And did you tick the "Yes" box on your license application form that asked you if you had any medical condition or disabilities?

If not, that could've been your pre-emptive mistake. Just a thought...

This is pretty ignorant statement IMO, and it sums up perfectly what kind of prejudice the people with speech problems come up against in society.

Having a stutter is not a medical condition nor is it a physical disability so why should you declare it to an insurance company? It's not like it effects your driving ability now does it?

Actually, just thinking about it, people with speech problems would be less likely to talk on their mobile phone while driving and less likely to engage in road rage. Cheaper insurance?

mountainyman

Lucky your post is unintelligible.
Do you take the same care to ensure that you understood in the spoken word as you do in the written?
Why don't you use punctuation and capitals.

MM

Savman

Raekwon wrote:

This is pretty ignorant statement IMO, and it sums up perfectly what kind of prejudice the people with speech problems come up against in society.

It was actually a question more than a statement, you have jumped to your own conclusions about society's "prejudice" - cop on ffs.

Raekwon wrote:

Having a stutter is not a medical condition nor is it a physical disability

Well the OP seems to think so...

luckys_79 wrote:

i wondering wat kinda training is garda given to deal wth people who stuttering disablities

Raekwon wrote:

people with speech problems would be less likely to talk on their mobile phone while driving and less likely to engage in road rage.

That's a pointless reference to mobile phone offences, by your reasoning I could assume deaf people are "less likely" to be using a phone while driving and therefore less chance of them getting involved in road rage. If only it was that simple :rolleyes:

spurious

mountainyman wrote:

Lucky your post is unintelligible.
Do you take the same care to ensure that you understood in the spoken word as you do in the written?
Why don't you use punctuation and capitals.

MM

I'm guessing English is maybe not Gurdip's first language.
I understood his post just fine.

hullaballoo

mountainyman wrote:

Lucky your post is unintelligible.
Do you take the same care to ensure that you understood in the spoken word as you do in the written?
Why don't you use punctuation and capitals.

MM

Please try and pay attention to what's going on. It will save you another racist/prejudicial slur like that one. It might also save you a banning at some point.

hulla.

Raekwon

Savman wrote:

It was actually a question more than a statement, you have jumped to your own conclusions about society's "prejudice" - cop on ffs.

Cop on? Ha You are the one who open this ridiculous can of worms! Anyway, didn't your question/statement reflected what you were thinking? Do you think a person that stutters has a medical condition or disability? Most people in society do, that's just a fact.

Savman wrote:

Well the OP seems to think so...

Read what I posted genius. I said that having a stutter is not a medical condition nor is it a physical disability. Now why should anyone with a speech problem tell an insurance company that their driving will be effected (like you suggested) when most likely it will not effect their driving ability in the slightest.

Savman wrote:

That's a pointless reference to mobile phone offences, by your reasoning I could assume deaf people are "less likely" to be using a phone while driving and therefore less chance of them getting involved in road rage. If only it was that simple :rolleyes:

I hope that you are joking :rolleyes: My point was clearly made in jest but your counter reference regarding deaf people is totally ridiculous. Obviously deaf people cannot hear what is going on around them, severely hindering their awareness and ability to drive safely. Now that would be a bonafide disability. Get me?

jhegarty

am I the only one who can't see the verdict of the case ?

luckys_79

hi guys.........

i agree with REAKWON! stuttering is not considered as medical condition or disease!!! "stuttering" has NO CAUSE and NO CURE!!! speech therapists believes this like everyone else. and even nobody can tell when a person will stutter less or more or when b fluent.

well i would like to tell u i passed my driving test recently.

in theory part of driving test, I was stuttering very badly, so before that driving test examiner could guess something else, i told him that i have stammer and i m very nervous, n scared. driving tester didnt show any hasitation or said 'no' to me. he just asked me to 'relax and take ur time' and afterwards I answered all theory questions. even i was stuttering less and i was calm, not makin terrible faces. it was just tester's supportive attitude!

then practical driving test i drove fine, tester just gave me the instructions and i just followed the directions n rules.
result- only two 'grade-2' faults.

and after test
examiner told me ' u drove very well and u have PASSED the test. u drive exactly the way we want to see people driving. wish u safe driving in future'

as I m seeing here some people arnt aware of 'mental or physical struggle' of a person who stutter. i would like to advise them to get some information about stuttering... pls!!
so then probably they would understand, how hard it could be for a person who stutter just to ask to waiter 'a coke pls'. how much energy and time is spent to say just three words, how much struggle and fight went inside? should i say now? is someone listening? and when waiter comes over 'fanta' came out of mouth.... instead of 'coke'...

yeah English isnt my 1st langu. well I m trying my best.