I know this might seem...

StormWarrior

...like a strange question and it's probably in the wrong place, but humour me. Suppose someone sent a package by royal mail. Suppose that package was not sent by recorded delivery. The package never shows up at the intended destination. Royal Mail say they will do an investigation.

Does anyone know how exactly royal mail could possibly find out what happened to it?

Ruu_Old

The probably have some sort of tracking method or a sort code to find out where it went to. How long ago was the item posted from the UK? It could be delayed because of the massive amounts of Christmas mail.

StormWarrior

It was posted within the UK in June. Its definitely lost, the people I posted it to haven't reieved it. Royal mail said they will investigate (because its something important that can't be replaced) but I don't know how they can because it wasn't recorded delivery.

Ruu_Old

Well has the sender any kind of receipt to show they posted it or is that gone? I assume they filled in a claim form but I would say its far too late at this stage.

Boston

He's the sender like.

StormWarrior

actually someone posted this item to me but i never recieved it. The people who sent it don't believe i never recieved it. Unless royal mail find it they will carry on not believing me and I will end up having to pay alot of money for something i never recieved. So I really need to know how possible it is for royal mail to find an undelivered item from 6 months ago that wasn't recorded.

Faith

LiouVille wrote:

He's the sender like.

Helpful.

OP, when I send things from the UK, the PO always gives me a receipt, with the destination written in at the bottom. Have you got that? They should give you one regardless of whether or not it was recorded delivery.

/edit: Just saw your more recent post. Was it a transaction through eBay or something?

StormWarrior

just realised i wrote what happened back to front above. the item was posted TO me not the other way round. anyway, its something irreplacable that could turn out to be very expensive for me if its not found.

StormWarrior

I ordered something from a company who are now threatening to get debt collectors on to me if i don't pay. But I never recieved it!

Faith

Do you have proof of purchase? I imagine any reputable company would have some form of tracking on their items.

astrofool

If it was sent by mail, then they accept the responsibility if something goes wrong afaik. If it was valuable, then it should have been sent by courier, or at least by registered mail.

Might be better off in legal issues.

Ruu_Old

LiouVille wrote:

He's the sender like.

Apparently not, Ted.

astrofool wrote:

If it was sent by mail, then they accept the responsibility if something goes wrong afaik. If it was valuable, then it should have been sent by courier, or at least by registered mail.

Might be better off in legal issues.

That would be up to the OP to pay extra for the registered or recorded delivery though. In any case the company should be able to track the order down, at least when it was picked up from their office/warehouse.

StormWarrior

Faith wrote:

Do you have proof of purchase? I imagine any reputable company would have some form of tracking on their items.

its not proof of purchase thats the problem. They dont believe that I haven't recieved it. So I need to know if its possible for royal mail to find it, if they keep track of these things when its not recorded delivery.

StormWarrior

Ruu wrote:

That would be up to the OP to pay extra for the registered or recorded delivery though. In any case the company should be able to track the order down, at least when it was picked up from their office/warehouse.

I wasn't offered the option of recorded delivery. Anyway, what I need to know is not if the company can track it down to when it was picked up, but if royal mail can track down where it ended up.

Anti

On the legal side of things, On delivery of the said item, You would have had to sign for it upon delivery. If you havent recieved it, You cant have signed for it.

The company have no legal leg to stand on by sending debt collectors. It sounds to me that they might be a bit dodgy tbh.

And yes royal mail should be able to find the parcel. it may take time but they track everything. Ask the company who sent you the item a copy of the royal mail invoice/receipt of postage. If they refuse you this then you know they are a bit dodgy. But then again, they could have sent it.

StormWarrior

They're not dodgy, they are a big, well known company and I'm sure they sent it. Do you really think royal mail could find it? It said on the new recently 14 million items are lost by royal mail each year.

StormWarrior

by the way anti, it wasn't recorded delivery so i would not have had to sign for it. or would I? do royal mail make you sign for packages that aren't recorded?

Ruu_Old

They don't require you to sign if its not recorded delivery, if it was Airsure then you would be required but this is just regular airmail. My place receives a good amount of parcels from England and don't require anyone to be around to sign.

Anti

Yeah, didnt see it wasnt recorded. Still though. each letter and parcel is tracked along the way. They should have a history of where it came from, and where it went.

LundiMardi

If it wasn't sent recorded, then they probably don't have proof that they even sent it.

Put it this way, the onus is on them. If it wasn't received, then it's their (the senders) responsability to find out what happened, it was THEIR responsability to send it recorded. They cannot prove you never received it.

My point - relax! They can do nothing.

Sangre

I concur. Don't pay them anything. Just laugh at the notion of debt collectors, tell them you know they're trying to bully you and they haven't a leg to stand on. They'll probably back off or ease up at least.

Victor

The Royal Mail computer system may have a record of something with your address on it being put into the system at their collection depot (near where the sended is based) and it being passed all the way (or not) through their system.

Sometimes you will see a feint orange bar code on a letter (mostly hand written ones). This is to allow the system track something.

axer

Have you paid for the item yet?

Carrigart Exile

StormWarrior wrote:

...like a strange question and it's probably in the wrong place, but humour me. Suppose someone sent a package by royal mail. Suppose that package was not sent by recorded delivery. The package never shows up at the intended destination. Royal Mail say they will do an investigation.

Does anyone know how exactly royal mail could possibly find out what happened to it?

They will know the route the package should have gone, they can check for 'duds' with no discernible address, they will also check just in case there has been a spate of non deliveries to or from an area.

astrofool

Ruu wrote:

That would be up to the OP to pay extra for the registered or recorded delivery though. In any case the company should be able to track the order down, at least when it was picked up from their office/warehouse.

It's up to the sender to ensure it was sent with the appropriate insurance, not the receiver. Anyway, you'll need to ask a solicitor about this to be certain.

StormWarrior

axer wrote:

Have you paid for the item yet?

No. The whole story is, I wanted to order some expensive, nearly out of stock items from a company called Pabo.com. I gave them my credit card details as requested. The item never showed up and my card was never charged.

I sent them emails asking about it but they never answered. So, although I was very annoyed because the items were now out of stock and I really needed them (because I had promised them as a birthday present to a dear friend and did not want to disappoint her), I forgot about it.

UNTIL they sent a letter basically saying "We sent you your items and you haven't paid for them yet. This is the third letter we've sent you, so we're adding £15 to the order to cover the cost of sending the letters. If you don't pay the full amount within 7 days we will get debt collectors onto you, and you will have to pay the cost of the debt collectors."

I emailed them and said I had never recieved it. After ages of me worrying, they finally replied saying they had started an investigation with royal mail and if the items weren't found they would assume I had receieved them and would continue to pursue me with the aid of the debt collectors.

This has caused me sleepness nights and so much worry I am really thinking of offering to pay for the items even though I haven't had them. I have never been in trouble before in my life and pabo say they will also ruin my credit rating if I don't pay. Since this has been happening I have looked up pabo on the internet and found loads more bad reviews of them. I wish I had never done business with them in the first place. I really recommend none of you ever buy anything from them.

LundiMardi

Man, don't worry.. they cannot do anything to you... If you're that worried, go to a solicitor and ask him/her to write a letter to the company... That should shut them up..

You have absolutely nothing to worry about.

StormWarrior

by the way, it was 6 MONTHS in between me giving my card details and them sending the threatening letter!

And though they said it was the 3rd letter theyd sent so I would have to pay an extra £15, I had never received any other letters!

Also, why would the idiots send the items if they hadn't received payment?

Seriously, beware of pabo!

axer

StormWarrior wrote:

No. The whole story is, I wanted to order some expensive, nearly out of stock items from a company called Pabo.com. I gave them my credit card details as requested. The item never showed up and my card was never charged.

I sent them emails asking about it but they never answered. So, although I was very annoyed because the items were now out of stock and I really needed them (because I had promised them as a birthday present to a dear friend and did not want to disappoint her), I forgot about it.

UNTIL they sent a letter basically saying "We sent you your items and you haven't paid for them yet. This is the third letter we've sent you, so we're adding £15 to the order to cover the cost of sending the letters. If you don't pay the full amount within 7 days we will get debt collectors onto you, and you will have to pay the cost of the debt collectors."

I emailed them and said I had never recieved it. After ages of me worrying, they finally replied saying they had started an investigation with royal mail and if the items weren't found they would assume I had receieved them and would continue to pursue me with the aid of the debt collectors.

This has caused me sleepness nights and so much worry I am really thinking of offering to pay for the items even though I haven't had them. I have never been in trouble before in my life and pabo say they will also ruin my credit rating if I don't pay. Since this has been happening I have looked up pabo on the internet and found loads more bad reviews of them. I wish I had never done business with them in the first place. I really recommend none of you ever buy anything from them.

The only problem you have is that you do not have the gift you want to give someone - but it was not without trying.

Legally you have absolutely nothing to worry about. They cannot charge your credit card because you never received the goods.

If they do manage to charge your credit card you can get the transaction canceled immediately at no cost to your AND without the need for you to prove anything.

All you have to do is ring the bank/credit card issuer (BOI, AIB, MBNA etc) and tell them that you paid for something that you never received. They make you wait until 30 days after the date you ordered the goods just to make sure it is still not in the post (but this does not apply to you since haven't received the goods still 6 months later). They will then cancel the transaction immediately.

If pabo.com want to dispute the canceling of the transaction then they must prove you received the goods - which is obviously impossible. Pabo.com cannot touch your credit rating nor can they force the money out of you with debt collectors (they know this too but are just bluffing hoping you will pay).

In fact the only one to have a rating change and a charge is pabo.com as the chargeback will be recorded on their merchant account and a chargeback fee will be charged by their bank to them.

PLEASE WORRY NO MORE!
(Worse case scenario - talk to a solicitor who will tell you exactly what I told you for about 40-60 euro - but do not pay those thieves)

Gone West

Why PI?
Online Shopping, or consumer issues would be more appropriate.

Anyways, what sort of charlatan company ships things through royal mail standard post, as opposed registered, or parcels!
Laugh at their debt collector threat.

How much are we talking about anyways?

StormWarrior

well the items i ordered came to £69 plus £4-something postage, now add the £15 charge they have added. I don't want to pay £90 for something I never got plus get a bad credit rating. Pabo are bastards, they really are!

And I also think for over £4 postage they could have put it on recorded. The items I ordered were clothes, they weren't that heavy, I'm sure it didn't really cost nearly a fiver to send!

LundiMardi

where are you getting this bad credit rating from??????

StormWarrior

Pabo said in thier letter if I don't pay they will make me get one. I didn't even ask for the items on credit from them, I gave them my visa card details, they should have just taken the money before sending.

Ruu_Old

You get a bad rating from not paying your credit card bills, they can't report anything about you to the credit bureau. They are talking shoite unless there is something I am missing.

pickarooney

I don't get it. If you gave them your CC details and they sent the item, and are assuming you received it, why didn't they just debit your account? Why are they asking you for payment when you've already given them the necessary info to claim it from your a/c?

StormWarrior

That is something I do not understand. Why would they send it without taking payment? If they can f*ck up the payment like that then I'm sure they can f*ck up sending it. They are just a stupid, disorganised company. there are so many bad reviews of them online, I wish I had seen them before attempting to do business with them.

Sangre

You can't 'cancel' a credit card transaction. Basically once this is charged the banks won't do anything unless they show fraud, such a refund would take about 30 working days.

Boston

Ruu wrote:

Apparently not, Ted.

StormWarrior wrote:

the people I posted it to haven't reieved it.

He's the sender like.

Faith wrote:

Helpful.

Yes.

Ruu_Old

See post #8.

Boston

see post #5

see the ordering of those posts.

Ruu_Old

Yes I see, nevermind. I thought you missed it, doesn't really matter.

Geek Nose

StormWarrior wrote:

I ordered something from a company who are now threatening to get debt collectors on to me if i don't pay. But I never recieved it!

Legally you have nothing to worry about. THEY have to provide proof of delivery.

Geek Nose

Sangre wrote:

You can't 'cancel' a credit card transaction. Basically once this is charged the banks won't do anything unless they show fraud, such a refund would take about 30 working days.

Wrong. You can do a chargeback (and I have done many times) on disputed transcations.