typical '3-second' fight

john kavanagh

typical scenario at a nightclub/pub

drunk aggressive guy 'in yer face'. lots of arm splaying, neck pecking etc etc. he lines him up then BAM....followed by clinch fighting.

youtube

Roper

Once the bouncer gets that underhook locked in the second chapter its all over. On another note, since the police were obviously on their way, what was he doing coming back out after the initial encounter? I also like the female cops TJ Hooker style fence jump at the end.... groovy:D

Dyr

the guy in black (bouncer?) seems to be in control when he's pushing the guy down the street, he also uses what i've been told is a completely ineffective position to punch the guy's face off at the end.


Other interesting things: The guy in white trailing them with what looks like a weighted chain. he turns down head shots with it but goes for the legs..hmmm

Also idiot bystanders who show up late and start trying to set the cops on the guy in black ("zomg he was PUNCHING him!!"). Just goes to show how you could be in the right and still have witnesses hang you. :mad:

john kavanagh

Roper wrote:

On another note, since the police were obviously on their way, what was he doing coming back out after the initial encounter?

being an idiot? and probably earning himself a day in court :rolleyes:

the second 'fight' was more of a match fight and you could tell the bouncer had done a bit of boxing/kickboxing.

john kavanagh

Bambi wrote:

he also uses what i've been told is a completely ineffective position to punch the guy's face off at the end.

must've been a real 'expert' who told you an underhook (one of the main positions in greco) would be ineffective in controlling somebody lol

pearsquasher

Seems that the bouncers seemingly sports-MA background may have helped him a take out an agressive (yet probably drunk/drugged) citizen but didn't exactly help him in any sort of legal/social/moral aspect. Like you said, a day in court for unneceesary force is his reward for the thrill of engaging in a fight he blatantly needn't have bothered with. I wonder how his hands were after stiking the human skull a few times?

In my opinion, nothing in that encounter was in any way telling of martial artistry but mere thuggery. :rolleyes: I've seen bouncers who practice actual martial arts and not sports deal with the same kind of thing with zero physical force. Wouldn't look too exciting on CCTV though would it?

Dyr

dunno anything about underhooks, do they target the face/neck/head? apparently it was a vine onto the face that would never work.The expert who told me this had seen a few UFCs back then so i took his word for it lol

john kavanagh

pearsquasher wrote:

In my opinion, nothing in that encounter was in any way telling of martial artistry but mere thuggery.

while i agree with you 100% he was an idiot going back out for a totally unneccessary 'round 2' it was, however, telling of the physical ability to deal with a violent person. was it neccessary - no. was he in the 'right' - certainly didn't look it. did it show his basic boxing and wrestling skills could be used to subdue a large aggressive guy - yes.

yes we could debate the legal/moral issues etc (and i'd probably agree with you on your assessment of him being a bit of a thug) but i'm leaving that aside for the moment to just look at what actually happened from a physical stand point. oh and i've also seen 'actual martial artists' not sports bouncers act like thugs too :rolleyes: you think it might be down to the individual and not the training??

bambi he had underhooked his right arm - typical 'dirty boxing' tactic used by the likes of randy couture (greco expert)

pearsquasher

Of course you're right - down to individuals every time. I know sports MAists of decent moral standing too.

It would be cool to see examples of non-physical/miminmum-force de-escallation of threats as much as the usual youtube thuggery though. (I suppose a lot of the cop shows actually show this in fairly equal measure in fact but it never gets talked about much)

Roper

Bambi wrote:

Also idiot bystanders who show up late and start trying to set the cops on the guy in black ("zomg he was PUNCHING him!!"). Just goes to show how you could be in the right and still have witnesses hang you. :mad:

Well I'm not 100% sure he was in the right. Okay the guy was obviously looking for it but he didn't have to come back out and he made no attempt to restrain him. Probably still pissed that the other guy clobbered him earlier on.

I've seen bouncers who practice actual martial arts and not sports deal with the same kind of thing with zero physical force.

Thats a bit of an inflamatory statement isn't it?

zAbbo

He came back out because he don't prove himself during the initial scrap.

If you hang around after being thrown out, shouting the odds and kicking the door etc, don't expect a big friendly bouncer to come out and thank you.

Some of this may have had todo with bouncer/club reputation.

pearsquasher

It wasn't meant to be inflamatory - just a natural Ma bias on my part - and besides JK reminded me that it works both ways and i agreed later on.

easyontheeye

it also shows how hard it is to land that 1 hit sucker punch! even when its trained sober MA dude Vs a drunk tit!

Flat

i bet ya his bouncer buddies were ribbing him inside so he had to go out and have a straigthner with the lad purely for rep

suprised the bouncer couldnt knock out a very drunk opponent although he did give him a hiding

and they were the same size so it wasnt a missmatch

SorGan

love the commentry:D

Dyr

what makes y'all say he was very drunk or even drunk? or that the bouncer did martial arts

Flat

Bambi wrote:

what makes y'all say he was very drunk or even drunk? or that the bouncer did martial arts

a) he was a customer and not a doorman
b) he got ejected from the club
c) he started on 3 bouncers
d) he ripped his top off
e) he is shouting loudly the whole time
f) he was getting all lovey dovey up with the homeless lads (shakes one's hand)
g) he gets beaten up by the bouncer
h) then the police assume he's drunk and arrest him

but hey maybe he was sober

yomchi

suprised the bouncer couldnt knock out a very drunk opponent although he did give him a hiding

He knocked him down with a jab! :eek:

john kavanagh

graphic knife attack

easyontheeye

why did it take the other people so long to step in after the knive was knocked out of his hand. fair play to them in the end though.

Clive

I love the first clip - that's one of the best reasons to go boozin' in England.

"I'LL 'AVE YOU, I'LL FOOKIN' 'AVE YOU!"

arybvtcw0eolkf

I don't really care if the doorman was right or wrong. What pisses me off in that scene is the reaction of the bystanders after the police have shown up.

I've been in that position more time than I care to remember, and almost 100% of the time the crowd will turn on the bouncer.

Why?,

Because (IMHO) most adults have never seen violence, and their shocked by it (rightly so too). So their natural instinct is to say the bouncer beat someone up for nothing, again this has happened to me.

As regards the black guy, 'fook em' he got what he was looking for. Bet he turned 'cry baby' when he knew the crowd was on his side too!.

arybvtcw0eolkf

john kavanagh wrote:

graphic knife attack

Now JK, that was just hilarious!.

arybvtcw0eolkf

pearsquasher wrote:

Of course you're right - down to individuals every time. I know sports MAists of decent moral standing too.

It would be cool to see examples of non-physical/miminmum-force de-escallation of threats as much as the usual youtube thuggery though. (I suppose a lot of the cop shows actually show this in fairly equal measure in fact but it never gets talked about much)

I think that video showed how the thread was dealt with when the doorstaff retreated and closed the door's. At this stage the doorstaff are hoping person gets pissed off and goes away. But then we don't know is how long its going to take the police to arrive, how many times this has happened with the same individual before & if there's customers waiting to leave the premises, this these factors put additional stress on the doorstaff, espcially the last point. Another point, we don't see too many customers around, maybe the club is closed and the staff want to leave. Now thats happened to almost anyone who's worked on a door before.

IE, the last people to leave kick off outside. Its been a long & stressful night & you want to get home. Bet you a 'pound to a pinch of **** someone's going to go andsort that one out.

At least the other members of staff didn't get involved, this show's some restraint.

Honestly, and going on past experience I'd probably have done the same myself. Unfortunetely I'd have to justify my actions to the police, but before going out I'd be pretty confident I'm covered.

Re. the fight. Again I think the doorman showed alot of restaint in not kicking the head off the guy when he was downed, but this comes with experience.

In my younger days I'd have gave it to him very hard when he went down, but experience has taught me to holdback alot. it could be my undoing someday too because you can bet your ass had the shoe been on the other foot the black guy would have kicked the bejayus out of the doorman.

I thin kthe doorman used his skills to very good effect without going overboard.