ComReg LLu Report: LLU is FUBARed

damien

http://www.comreg.ie/whats_new/default.asp?ctype=5&nid=102526

"The data provided would indicate that more than 50% of orders, at various stages of processing, in any one month are being rejected or result in non-delivery of service."

cgarvey

IoffL quick to release a briefing doc about this SHOCKING report.

How anybody can read this and not think ComReg have utterly failed for many years is beyond me. Under lots of market and political pressure, ComReg set up this industry forum, and has reported nothing but massive failure, and their "dissapointement". Not how they're going to rectify it (other than adopting a wait-and-see approach).

The problem? eircom are driving this, not ComReg. If ComReg were even a decent back-seat-driver, we'd have seen some progress. Right now, those who need to switch to LLU won't (because of the lack of "in an hour or two , you'll be switched over with a few minutes of actual downtime". Business, teleworkers, heavy 'net users all NEED this.

oscarBravo

This couldn't possibly be true. Rex Combs said yesterday on Today FM that DSL competition isn't a problem because competitors can simply unbundle exchanges, and John Doherty didn't contradict him.

Actually: was I the only one to notice that Doherty and Combs said almost exactly the same things during that interview - and I mean pretty much verbatim at one point?

lucernarian

Given their recent interview on Today FM and the wording of that report, ComReg (or at least the commissioners leading it) sound like they are HEAVILY dependent on eircom's cooperation and "goodwill" for ComReg to have any impact.
It may be stating the obvious but, given their current attitude, the accomodation that the company has received from the State over the last 30 years is a sickening farce. Any fools within ComReg should wake up to the reality of this.

Shame on the Dept. of Communications for creating a regulator which is completely reliant on the monopoly provider to provide anything beyond the lettering of the law.

Where does the book stop for this failure? It's not the Minister anyway, they washed their hands of these problems when they sold off TÉ and formed the ODTR. He can shrug his shoulders and have as much iniative to solve the problems as a dog on the street, if he wishes.

It's not good enough.

cgarvey

OK, so we've to play nicely nicely with eircom so they won't drag ComReg through the courts and delay every last directive for years. So what has that achieved us to date? Why not play hard ball, and let them drag each directive through the court?
A) If eircom are unnecessarily dragging it through the courts, they'll inccur the costs
The time frame will be no different. We didn't have LLU when it was touted 4/5 years ago. We don't have it now. We are unlikely to have for the next year at the least. (I mean proper usable LLU).
C) It will force ComReg to better prepare it's directives
D) It will finally force eircom to accept the regulatory environment they've been subjected to, to date, has been a joke, and is not sustainable in a modern knowledge-based economy (if that's what we are!)

To summarise: what has nicely-nicely given us to date?

.cg

damien

The trouble with all this LLU stuff is that Smart, BT, Magnet, Digiweb and whoever else are in talks about LLU are too ****ing spineless to publicly comment about their frustration. I'm really really really getting pissed off doing all the public shouting, as I'm sure are my colleagues in IrelandOffline are. It should be down to the LLU people to do something but they won't take on ComReg or eircom but they'll happily whine to us in private.

IrelandOffline are part-time and and have no money or resources, yet we can do well enough getting the facts out and quashing the spin, think what a multi-billion euro company like BT can do or the fairly rich Magnet. In fairness, Magnet are giving a little public stick but not enough and the others keep their gobs shut. And where oh where is ALTO in all of this? They've done so little in 2006 you'd swear eircom was a member.

lucernarian

cgarvey wrote:

OK, so we've to play nicely nicely with eircom so they won't drag ComReg through the courts and delay every last directive for years. So what has that achieved us to date? Why not play hard ball, and let them drag each directive through the court?
A) If eircom are unnecessarily dragging it through the courts, they'll inccur the costs
The time frame will be no different. We didn't have LLU when it was touted 4/5 years ago. We don't have it now. We are unlikely to have for the next year at the least. (I mean proper usable LLU).
C) It will force ComReg to better prepare it's directives
D) It will finally force eircom to accept the regulatory environment they've been subjected to, to date, has been a joke, and is not sustainable in a modern knowledge-based economy (if that's what we are!)

To summarise: what has nicely-nicely given us to date?

.cg

Sfa. There is no political will to make ComReg do so. To take on eircom and give ComReg a kick means the Minister for Communications would have to use iniative and cop-on. If it's just a lobby group and the odd media story rocking the boat, then Noel Dempsey won't want to leave his comfy chair. There needs to be a monetary iniative.

Damien makes a very valid point. Where are the telecom companies? Where are their media interviews? Smart Telecom have been rightly f***ed over by a dysfunctional LLU proceedure. I can't remember them on the Last Word or Morning Ireland.

Liam Byrne

I can't remember them on the Last Word or Morning Ireland

True - based on Thursday's programme, the criteria for getting on The Last Word seems to be "will you agree with everything the eircom guy says ?". If you say yes, you get access into the studio, if you say "not really", you get interviewed over the phone, and if you say "no - I want to tell the real story of how awkward it is to do business", you don't get on and they tell everyone you're gone out of business!

thebman

Could Ireland Offline not have anonymous interviews and post them on the site. Hell journalists should be doing this and making it known that the reason they won't speak out is because of the consequences which I assume are eircom doing whatever they can to kill them.

Surely there is someway to get this information to the public without some telecoms company sacrificing themselves as I imagine thats basically what happens if you speak out on the real cause of the LLU problems we have at the moment.

cgarvey

damien.m wrote:

And where oh where is ALTO in all of this?

Arguably, the post of the year!

damien

brim4brim wrote:

Could Ireland Offline not have anonymous interviews and post them on the site.

How could someone tell the difference between fact and fiction? I don't see the point it to be honest. It's time for companies to make a fuss and start a fight unless they want to remain the scum sucking bottom feeders in the Irish telecoms market. They have a choice right now. The new eircom is, in my view a far deadlier entity than the old one and they really do seem to be keen on wiping out all competition apart from those that resell their products. LLU is slowing down not speeding up and they're making bitstream more cost-effective than ever before for resellers. They want to roll out to 100% of the country but will make sure it is only them in the dsl market that get there. They'll still control the price, speeds and quality.

Surely there is someway to get this information to the public without some telecoms company sacrificing themselves as I imagine thats basically what happens if you speak out on the real cause of the LLU problems we have at the moment.

There'll be more Smart-like busts in the next few years if the alternative telcos don't do something and I'll have absolutely no sympathy for any of them. The consumer will suffer as usual and I won't be blaming eircom since we all know the type of predator it is by now. Again it'll be like the last Irish election. Fianna Fail didn't win, the opposition lost bigtime.

damien

cgarvey wrote:

Arguably, the post of the year!

Where's ALTO?

Blaster99

I guess you have mostly resellers who are happy to resell and a bunch of wireless and cable operators who don't particularly want LLU to work. The only ones interested in LLU are the ones who're innovating and the level of innovation is hampered by the quality of the copper plant which means that you can really only try to compete on price on low-speed services. Chances are LLU is a PITA even beyond eircom as you need to dig up roads and provide fibre backhaul. Chances are infrastructure provision is particularly difficult in Ireland with no proper ducting anywhere and the usual peculiar ways things are done around here. In the meantime, the new owners of eircom are talking the innovation talk which means that the resellers will get access to stuff like vSDL and IPTV without all the hassle. The wireless guys can't really compete once speeds go up and they don't seem to be able to deliver TV, cable triple play seems difficult except in limited areas, so if you're in the ADSL space you don't really have much to fear from those guys so you may as well hang back and wait for eircom to provide the products for you to resell.

watty

Magnet is the only other major LLU operator and they have very deep pockets and don't have suicidally low prices.

Everyone would love LLU to work, but not at current exhorbitant price that is higher than many EU Retail prices. If LLU took 5 minutes including number porting the price still makes it "broken".

lucernarian

The "competition" to eircom is weak anyway. BT are like a tranquilised bear. All bulk and no danger. They clap themselves on the back when they make idle threats with their investment budget as if the government give a ****e. They are devoid of imagination and energy in solving the problem, excepting their comms. bill attempt. The ECAP is worse than useless.

Eircom are a different breed of animal now. They are more willing to get lines to pass, as every line that does pass resulting in a follow-up order for bb is a further stranglehold on their monopoly. Once people get something they think is an improvement, they'll settle for it. Government included.

Wireless could compete if it got a little more capital investment and a bit more spectrum. Eircom have their copper lines, competition shouldn't be affected by the rurtel scheme so let eircom provide proper copper to more customers. That's what they get their law-enforced line rental for.

And what will happen to LLU anyway? Technology will soon reach a point, like it's doing in the US, where LLU will not be able to provide top-class services to many people. (FiOS etc.) All eircom have to do is stall the process and they achieve their implied aims. The govt. seem willing for LLU to drop off the agenda too.

Oh, and http://www.google.ie/search?hl=en&q=telecoms+poodle&btnG=Google+Search&meta= is a christmas pressie for all the lads and lassies *cough* in ComReg and the DCMNR.

crawler

damien.m wrote:

The trouble with all this LLU stuff is that Smart, BT, Magnet, Digiweb and whoever else are in talks about LLU are too ****ing spineless to publicly comment about their frustration. I'm really really really getting pissed off doing all the public shouting, as I'm sure are my colleagues in IrelandOffline are. It should be down to the LLU people to do something but they won't take on ComReg or eircom but they'll happily whine to us in private.

IrelandOffline are part-time ....

Hmm...Damiien did not get his Barry's tea trainset from Santy me thinks!!

Seriously though - you are not incorrect. While I can not speak for other operators I can say that my own view is that it is worth one final attempt to resolving this in the industry group. There are only so many times any operator can kick up a stink and throw their toys out of the pram without having to follow it through and I think if any operator did that it would be bad for the consumer.

Not saying your point is not valid but I think we all need a bit more hard work and a final push at getting it right...if that fails then I think you will see lots of people become very vocal on the subject.

I hope for the industry and the consumer that at the end of 2007 we will be writing about the great advancements in LLU in only 12 months but let's see what next year brings (I am an optimist and I have said many times, in this industry, you need to be!)

Happy new year all

crawler

To_be_confirmed wrote:

And what will happen to LLU anyway? Technology will soon reach a point, like it's doing in the US, where LLU will not be able to provide top-class services to many people. (FiOS etc.) All eircom have to do is stall the process and they achieve their implied aims. The govt. seem willing for LLU to drop off the agenda too.

Oh, and http://www.google.ie/search?hl=en&q=telecoms+poodle&btnG=Google+Search&meta= is a christmas pressie for all the lads and lassies *cough* in ComReg and the DCMNR.

And dont forget ViOS on the Business side!

http://www.lightreading.com/document.asp?doc_id=108054

LLU is part of the solution but certainly not the magic bullet some seem to think...