Emporiumtastic cash game hand!Clueless....

jbravado

Main holdem game in the emporium last night-the usual chaos but have played this game a lot lately and am gradually getting a feel for the usual suspects involved.

Im on the button with 34 clubs.Murat (bald turkish guy)makes it seven in the dark.There are two callers(one decentish player and one clown).Said clown just survived bluffing his whole stack away when he caught a miracle on the river.I have around 600 and the rest cover.The game is playing pretty big and there are few if any small pots.

The flop comes 8 3 4 rainbow.Murat leads for the pot.There is a raise behind him to 140 or there abouts before clown lumps it in.

I couldnt shake off the feeling that I had the best hand but just couldnt justify a call.My real question is in a game that is playing this loose and with some geniunly bad/drunk players is my hand sufficiently strong to get my chips in with?What do you guys do? Call/Fold/Raise?Why?
Any advice appreciated

charlesanto

I think i call here...

The lead means nothing, the raise could easily be TP or over pair, and the clown could have nothing by your description!

ianmc38

Toughy Sam. We're behind 33 44 and 88. The only person who can conceivably have 84 or 83 is Murat, but he'll bet the pot with bottom pair so I wouldnt worry about him too much. I dont know what I'd do to be honest. I dont mind a fold though, but in the SE you can easily be up against K8, 56o and TT here....

eggie

With your stack size i think i fold this too. Your hand is too easily counterfeited or outdrawn. If i was sitting on 200 or less then yeah i'd go for it but would hate to be playing for stacks with this hand.

El Stuntman

given your description of villains, I'd lump it in like Flynn

edit; what happened after you folded btw?

LuckyLloyd

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El Stuntman

LuckyLloyd wrote:

You'll sometimes be shown 83 and 84 here when you call!!!

I think it is a good fold. I wouldn't like to play for my stack with bottom two - and you will find a better spot in that game.

tightbox

the only one who can realistically have 83 or 84 is the blind raiser (Borat or whatever his name is and he's apparently insane anyway)

surely you think you're up against TP or else an overpair?

LuckyLloyd

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ntlbell

fold now and hope to pick up the K4o soon.

El Stuntman

LuckyLloyd wrote:

We'll see a set from either the re - raiser or clown a lot. Also, sometimes we will be up against an overpair, A8, and an up and down straight draw - with all three getting their money in.

Ya - you hold up a lot in the second scenario. But when you consider that you would be dodging a lot of bullets over two cards in scenario two, and will be drawing dead sometimes aswell - I like a fold.

In a tougher game you would want to take this scenario - as it might be the best situation you will see. But in the aquariam a good player like Sam will find plenty of surer spots to accumalate $ (disclaimer - making tough folds in a cash game is second nature to me. But I am a weak - tight nit. ).

how likely is a set given that you have 34 already and surely 88 re-raises a blind raise PF?

I'm ahead, my money is going in (screw it)!!

yes, I am a fish

LuckyLloyd

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El Stuntman

LuckyLloyd wrote:

Not neccesarily in the fishtank!! I'm not saying that shipping it would be incorrect here. I'm just saying that I don't hate a fold knowing that you caqn double up easily over two hours in there without such drama.

two hours is only 30/40 hands

what makes you think you'll get a better opportunity than this?

ntlbell

El Stuntman wrote:

two hours is only 30/40 hands

what makes you think you'll get a better opportunity than this?

Because there's 4 K's and 4 4's in the deck, you're bound to get it sometime.

LuckyLloyd

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El Stuntman

LuckyLloyd wrote:

Because you will get into most of those 40 hands cheaply, and will generally find that someone hits something (be it middle pair) that they are prepared to play a big pot with. If you get any premium hands over the 40 you will generally find someone who is willing to pay you off in a big pot (be it with middle pair).

"The lucky lloyd guide to beating the SE PLHE Game"

ntlbell

El Stuntman wrote:

"The lucky lloyd guide to beating the SE PLHE Game"

Will it have a section on K4?

LuckyLloyd

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El Stuntman

LuckyLloyd wrote:

Abbreviated version:

Sit tight, wait for the goods - keep saying "pot" - SHIP IT!!

and bottom two doesn't cut the mustard against maniacs on a dry board?

LuckyLloyd

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BigCityBanker

this is an interesting hand

Murat will have f'all but will pay to catch a draw. (ul if he has a better two pair)
One gimp will have 99/1010/JJ and decided to have slow played it as he knew Murat will lead out on the flop with a bag of bollix.
Other guy will have A8/K8 - maybe both these hands will be in play.

As El Stuntman has not yet suggested it i reckon ship it in and "squeeze ur butt cheeks real hard" This is not always the best line but I reckon in this game id do it.

NTL - K4 will be dealt to you in the next hand - when you win this at least you will have a monster stack and will get well paid for having caught your monster!!

bops

i wish i lived in dublin - no!! strike that - dublin is a sh*thole - i wish i had a helicopter to go and play in the emporium etc more...last time i played there i made 3k in 3 hours - retardfest...

anyways FOLD coz you'll get sucked out 99% of the time (mathematically sound!!) - wait till you get quads and get stacked by a busted gutshot draw and bottom pair

BTW - this may come as a shock to you all but i LOST with k4 the other night - i even got the dealer to count the deck and got the cameras checked - just a warning to you all :eek:

ntlbell

bops wrote:

BTW - this may come as a shock to you all but i LOST with k4 the other night - i even got the dealer to count the deck and got the cameras checked - just a warning to you all :eek:

I use to think you were ok, you always seemed to speak from the heart.

Now I realise you're talking nonsense.

K4 lost...yeah....ok.....nice try..

PiperT

jbravado wrote:

Main holdem game in the emporium last night-the usual chaos but have played this game a lot lately and am gradually getting a feel for the usual suspects involved.

Im on the button with 34 clubs.Murat (bald turkish guy)makes it seven in the dark.There are two callers(one decentish player and one clown).Said clown just survived bluffing his whole stack away when he caught a miracle on the river.I have around 600 and the rest cover.The game is playing pretty big and there are few if any small pots.

The flop comes 8 3 4 rainbow.Murat leads for the pot.There is a raise behind him to 140 or there abouts before clown lumps it in.

I couldnt shake off the feeling that I had the best hand but just couldnt justify a call.My real question is in a game that is playing this loose and with some geniunly bad/drunk players is my hand sufficiently strong to get my chips in with?What do you guys do? Call/Fold/Raise?Why?
Any advice appreciated

I was in between the 140 guy and "clown" for this hand and couldn't believe how it played out. You were ahead preflop, (140 guy) had an overpair and you both got out of the pot and left the two boys at it. One with TPTK and Murat with an open ender (for which he called off half his 1k stack). Murat misses and an 8 on the river makes the set for crusty. Of course it was a good fold in hindsight but I really think you are getting paid most of the time in this situation with a push against these opponents.

Solksjaer

bops wrote:

i wish i lived in dublin - no!! strike that - dublin is a sh*thole -

Righ tha's it Bops, the ancient Drimnagh death of ONE THOUSAND KICKS IN THE NUTS awaits you for that comment.
Sucking out on all the Antos in Dublin is one thing (they were probably Culchies anyway) but to call our fair city a ***** **** (I can't even say it) is the final straw. I will stalk Heuston until I get you or whatever lilac bus you dismount.....G'ya hear me bud? I'm on Culchie tilt now....

phantom_lord

ntlbell wrote:

Will it have a section on K4?

That's vol II



I saw a guy on my table in the fitz raise with k4o pf, and won the showndown. I considered taking my money off the table as there was no way I could beat a guy who was obviously a student of bops.

jbravado

Spot on analysis by the lads! Especially big city!140 guy had 10 10-clown features(nice lad just drunk.... dig up!) had a 8 yes a8!! !i folded-murat moves in with openender for around 1100.The guy with 10 10 found a fold and a 8 calls...

The turns brings a 4 to house me up a storm.......:eek:

Sickly river card is an 8 which would have dogged me out of a monster!

The reason I posted was because I was actually dissapointed with my fold.I genuinly put the lads on the hands they had but just couldnt believe that with the action I had the winner.Still,Im of the opinion that you should always follow your read.Hmm...

Piper nice to put a face to the name.

BigCityBanker

jbravado wrote:

murat moves in with openender for around 1100.

quality play.

jbravado

In his defence he fluctuated between playing a good maniac aggro game-really appling pressure to a weak hand and or player to seemingly making an actual decision to give away his chips.....

He cashed out with over a grand i think-huge swings Id imagine but then who doesnt in that game!

ianmc38

ianmc38 wrote:

I dont mind a fold though, but in the SE you can easily be up against K8, 56o and TT here....

How sick is that?

jbravado

Lol Ian pretty impressive -nice read!Although I think Murat had 2 5.........

bops

ntlbell wrote:

I use to think you were ok, you always seemed to speak from the heart.

Now I realise you're talking nonsense.

K4 lost...yeah....ok.....nice try..

stop fu**ing telling this lot about its magical powers ffs...i'm sick of tryin to cover your tracks

tell 'em AA good 72 bad...ignorance is bliss

bops

Solksjaer wrote:

Righ tha's it Bops, the ancient Drimnagh death of ONE THOUSAND KICKS IN THE NUTS awaits you for that comment.
Sucking out on all the Antos in Dublin is one thing (they were probably Culchies anyway) but to call our fair city a ***** **** (I can't even say it) is the final straw. I will stalk Heuston until I get you or whatever lilac bus you dismount.....G'ya hear me bud? I'm on Culchie tilt now....

skanger

bops

phantom_lord wrote:

...I considered taking my money off the table as there was no way I could beat a guy who was obviously a student of bops.

wise decision for a change