Judges comments about our visitors

mattDL

I agree with him, what do you think? (Taken from todays Indo)A JUDGE'S threat to send home foreigners if they commit a crime shortly after their arrival here has been criticised as "inflammatory".

Judge James O'Connor said he could no longer tolerate a situation where foreign nationals were involved in crime just days after arriving in the country.

He made his comments at Tralee District Court yesterday as he ordered a Polish man convicted of handling stolen property to leave the country within 48 hours, or serve a seven-month jail sentence. Robert Kwiatkowski (25), of James' Street, Tralee, had pleaded guilty to handling a stolen laptop computer on December 12 in the town.

The court heard that he had arrived in this country 14 days ago. Legal aid had been granted.

"Don't come in here and look for asylum or whatever status is going and within ten days be engaged in criminal activity. This kind of stuff has to stop. He's in the country ten days and he's already involved in a quite serious, nasty matter," Judge O'Connor said.

"They can't come here and within two weeks be involved in crime. From now on they will be sent back home." Det Garda Jim O'Donovan said that as a result of information received he and other gardai called to a house at Chapel Street. The defendant and his friend offered the Apple laptop for €200 to a plainclothes garda acting as a buyer.

The laptop, valued at €3,000, had been stolen along with other items on December 5 last during a burglary on a house.

When charged with handling of stolen property, speaking through an interpreter, Kwiatkowski said he had bought the laptop for €127 along with a black bag and an Irish passport "on the open market" in Tralee.

A passport belonging to the owner of the burgled house was found in Kwiatkowski's room. However no charges were brought on the passport.

Kwiatkowski's solicitor Pat Mann told the court his client did not wish to go back to Poland.

The judge asked why he did not wish to return and the accused replied, through an interpreter, "Because I came here to this country."

Judge O'Connor convicted him on the charge of handling a stolen laptop, and sentenced him to seven months in prison suspended on condition that within 48 hours from 2.30pm yesterday the defendant leave the jurisdiction and does not return for three years.

Mr Mann said he intended to appeal the order.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Until someone gains full citizenship I believe they should be sent packing if they are found guilty of committing any crime, big or small.

the_syco

Cool. THis happened a while back. Same judge, or is it catching on?

Congrats to the judge, for having the balls, tbh. Hopefully the polish dude bets banned from Ireland, as well as any other country.

I work alongside a few polish, and they can work hard, so I see no reason why this f*cker should be let go when he steals. Gives the rest a bad name.

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

Kintarō Hattori

Fair play to the judge, our system is far too easy.

Black Swan

May be a solution, especially if the word gets out?

Good work, judge
I agree
it is unacceptable

Degsy

Kick them out if they cant obey the laws of the host country.If you commit a crime in saudi arabia you'll be punished in accordance with thier laws whether you're foreign or not.We're far too easy on criminals from other countries because we dont want to be seen as "racist".

Rb

eo980 wrote:

Fair play to the judge, our system is far too easy.

I agree.

Completely fair imo.

Lol, strong argument from the defence for the reason for the guy to stay anyway! Maybe on his three years out he might pick up a bit of English?
Coming to the country without English and the intent to commit crime, like hell we need that, deport every single one of them (convicted criminals) and prevent them every coming back.

This should be normal procedure tbh, we've a huge rate of immigration and if people are coming over to commit crimes we certainly don't need them in our prison system with the tax payers paying for them.

_blank_

Yeah, send 'em packing.

The people who come here to earn a decent day's pay from a decent day's work are more than welcome.

The 'people' who come here to act the maggot can get the hell out.

Fair play to this judge, he has the right attitude.

cjt156

another good verdict, maybe the legal system is working... Hmmm...(puts Sarin gas cannisters back in the garden shed...)

mikemac

All credit to the judge. People were suggesting this during the Kunle thread a few months back.

I'd say the judge would be overruled in the European Courts if an appeal was made though

jimmycrackcorm

The judge gave a fair option - he did not insist on the guy having to leave the country only that he had a choice to either go to prison or leave the country. Saves the taxpayer money.

If there is anything wrong with it then it is that Irish people don't get the same option...

Lust4Life

Well there go my plans for 2007! Dang!:p

Judt

Best way to deal with them, from our PoV - we don't have to pay to keep them in a jail, and it sends a message to other would-be criminals entering the country. It's also good for the criminals, in a sense, because they can bugger off if they get caught for a crime and not have to spend time in an Irish jail... no matter how arduous an experience that might be :rolleyes:

Mossy Monk

we should have more people with power like him

junkyard

If more judges reacted like this it would certainly reduce the courts work load and save us taxpayers a fortune too. Plus, people would have more respect for the Legal system.

faceman

My mate was arrested for drunken disorderly one night and the judge told him that he was "no better than those continentals"!!!!

He was innocent and it was christmas 2 years ago!

Now whats a "continental" and are they drunkards??

Heisenberg.

This post has been deleted.

ferdi

agree with the judge 100%

Zirconia

Perhaps the judge might be overruled by the european court. Lets put it this way, he did us a favour by trying to get this criminal out of our country, and in a way, you could put it he was giving the criminal a softer option of just going home rather than going to prison here.

If he's overruled, the fact still stands that this guy is a criminal, who came here and broke the law. If he's not being extradited, then he's going to prison. His solicitor is talking him into a seven month prison sentance (which he truly deserves, if not more).

faceman

I disagree with the judge.

If the non national commits a crime, then he needs to be put in prison. What if he goes back to Poland and isnt put in prison for whatever reason and kills someone. Basically our own judge recognised that he was criminal and had he been irish, would have put him in jail but instead offloaded him elsewhere within the EU to be someone elses problem. thats irresponsible.

We're part of a bigger picture in the EU.

Think of it like this. You're a manager in work and someone on your team is a crap worker. However rather than putting them through the disciplinary process you move them into a different department. Doesnt really solve the problem does it?

Pigman II

It'd be cool if we could find somewhere to send ALL our criminals. An island perhaps, somewhere hot.

fulofh20

The judge is right 100% but I mean people should not have been afraid to follow this rule all the time in judgement.

SimpleSam06

faceman wrote:

Think of it like this. You're a manager in work and someone on your team is a crap worker. However rather than putting them through the disciplinary process you move them into a different department. Doesnt really solve the problem does it?

Err, so what happens after he gets out of prison? Does he get to stay here? I sure as hell don't want him in this country, and I think most people would agree with me there. This is our country and we have a right to say who gets to visit, or not. Travelling to Ireland or any country isn't a universal right, its a privilege.

The judge just saved the taxpayers the burden and shipped him home. Makes sense, really. I just hope he stays there this time.

Karl Hungus

Pigman II wrote:

It'd be cool if we could find somewhere to send ALL our criminals. An island perhaps, somewhere hot.

Yeah, then they'd end up flooding our airwaves with their soap operas.

Blackjack

Pigman II wrote:

It'd be cool if we could find somewhere to send ALL our criminals. An island perhaps, somewhere hot.

Ah no, somewhere cold, and Rock breaking as the only available pastime, and where the heating systems in the cells are the same as those on Iarnrod Eireann coaches, where it's up full blast on the hottest day in Summer, and broken with only the airconditioning available in the Frost and Snow.

That would teach em!!.

Mossy Monk

Karl Hungus wrote:

Yeah, then they'd end up flooding our airwaves with their soap operas.

that's what we get for abandoning these misfits of society

JaysusMacfeck

I fully support the judge's decision.

mdebets

Pigman II wrote:

It'd be cool if we could find somewhere to send ALL our criminals. An island perhaps,

You'll never know, someone probably had the same idea in the past and that's how Ireland got colonised.:D

Our man in Havana

Pigman II wrote:

It'd be cool if we could find somewhere to send ALL our criminals. An island perhaps,

The Brits tried that 200 years ago and it didn't work. We are now paying the price as said with their soap opreas and inferior beers and wines.

cooperguy

I completely agree

faceman

SimpleSam06 wrote:

Err, so what happens after he gets out of prison? Does he get to stay here? I sure as hell don't want him in this country, and I think most people would agree with me there. This is our country and we have a right to say who gets to visit, or not. Travelling to Ireland or any country isn't a universal right, its a privilege.

The judge just saved the taxpayers the burden and shipped him home. Makes sense, really. I just hope he stays there this time.

So if he leaves this country, kills somewhere else, then thats irresponsibility on the part of the judge. When he gets out of prison he's served his time. Ship him home then or allow him to stay on a good behaviour.

What about irish criminals? Why not ship them elsewhere too after they get out of prison too?

SimpleSam06

SimpleSam06 wrote:

Travelling to Ireland or any country isn't a universal right, its a privilege.

Actually its a right in the EU.

Members states (of the EU) also have the right to kick someone out on the basis of public policy.

Since yer man was a trouble maker, the judge obviously thought it was fitting to get rid of him under the pretext of public policy.

You cant be more fair than that.

simu

Could he not just return again, though? Or is there some sort of a blacklist?

Pazaz 21

These kind of cases should be open and shut. You are a guest in this country, you commit a crime, you get sent to jail and then you get kicked out of the country.

I don't like the idea that somebody could commit a crime and their punishment is to get sent home !! What kind of message does that send out. No, do the crime, do the time, and then get the f*uk out of dodge.

Any European has the right to go to any European country they wish, but they do not have the right to break the law in that country. I know that people argue that if it was an irish criminal he would not be deported, he would be sent to prison. But we have enough scumbags here without importing them from other countries.

SimpleSam06

Deleted User wrote:

Actually its a right in the EU.

No, its not a right, because...

Deleted User wrote:

Members states (of the EU) also have the right to kick someone out on the basis of public policy.

Can't remove rights just because you feel like it. Its a privilege. Any member of the customs staff at point of entry can turn away any non citizen for whatever reason they wish (send them home), and thats for internal travelling in the EU as well. Yeah I support the judge completely though...

SimpleSam06

faceman wrote:

So if he leaves this country, kills somewhere else, then thats irresponsibility on the part of the judge.

When did the Irish taxpayer start giving a damn about Polish petty criminals? Ship him off home, never let him darken our door again. The Poles can deal with their own as they see fit. Not our problem.

faceman

SimpleSam06 wrote:

When did the Irish taxpayer start giving a damn about Polish petty criminals? Ship him off home, never let him darken our door again. The Poles can deal with their own as they see fit. Not our problem.

Its irresponsible no matter what way you put it. What messages does it send to other potential non national criminals?

If you break the law, the paddies just send you home.

So lets say a non national commits murder and rape in this country. how does sending him home deal with the situation? What if hes not tried in his home country? Not our problem? Tell that to his next victim

Terry

you make a good point, but the man was a petty thief and not some criminal mastermind.
it's really a case by case situation. if the crime is serious enough, then deportation after a jail sentence is valid, but for petty theft the offender should just be sent home. no need to put another petty criminal behind bars, only for him to be released 2 days later.

Our man in Havana

I would assume that this policy would only apply to minor offences.

faceman

julep wrote:

you make a good point, but the man was a petty thief and not some criminal mastermind.
it's really a case by case situation. if the crime is serious enough, then deportation after a jail sentence is valid, but for petty theft the offender should just be sent home. no need to put another petty criminal behind bars, only for him to be released 2 days later.

ok so we are broadly generalising the crimes here and you right, it should be case by case. But my point is that we cant just wash our hands of it just because they are foreign nationals.

This is far too serious for AH, i say stone the judges!

Terry

maybe this polish guy will learn a lesson from this and could possibly become a productive member of society. something along the lines of 'hey, i had the opportunity of a fresh start in a new country and i blew it. maybe i need to re-examine my life and start over'. probably not, but it might happen.
for the time being, screw him. he broke the rules and now he has to face the consequences. although that may change upon appeal.

SimpleSam06

SimpleSam06 wrote:

No, its not a right, because...


Can't remove rights just because you feel like it. Its a privilege. Any member of the customs staff at point of entry can turn away any non citizen for whatever reason they wish (send them home), and thats for internal travelling in the EU as well. Yeah I support the judge completely though...

It is a right
http://ec.europa.eu/justice_home/fsj/freetravel/right/fsj_freetravel_rights_en.htm

senordingdong

julep wrote:

maybe this polish guy will learn a lesson from this and could possibly become a productive member of society.

:rolleyes:

SimpleSam06

Deleted User wrote:

It is a right
http://ec.europa.eu/justice_home/fsj/freetravel/right/fsj_freetravel_rights_en.htm

Not in Ireland its not, from your own link there...

The United Kingdom and Ireland did not sign up to Schengen and have not abolished controls at their borders. However, EU citizens may cross their borders simply on presentation of a valid passport or identity card. In principle, no question should be asked as to the purpose of the journey, means of subsistence, etc.