Travelling With a Gun

jimbon

I was wondering if I wanted to bring a rifle to the USA to do a bit of shooting over there what are the laws. Has anyone ever done this? I know the law with flying but what are the licensing laws in the destination? Would you be granted a temporary license in most countries or is this just NOT possible?
Cheers
I am in the process of getting my first rifle, a CZ 452 and I go to New York and the Catskills mountains a lot. Any useful info would be great.
Jimbon

jaycee

Not sure of the requirements legally .
But this is really a case of bringing "coals to Newcastle" ...:rolleyes:

They have a lot more rifles and ranges than we have.
You might be better to check the options on using a firearm over there.

Rovi

Like jaycee, I have no idea of the legal requirements, but I'm certain it can be done; after all, 'aliens' (the non-E.T. type!) go hunting and compete in shooting competitions in the U.S. all the time.

Without (I sincerely hope!) causing any offence though, I'd respectfully suggest that a CZ 452 isn't really 'special' enough to warrant the bureaucratic nightmare and legalistic jumping through hoops of fire I'd suspect are necessary to make it happen.

You say you go to New York (upstate, I presume?) a lot, can I reasonably suppose that you have 'shooting buddies' over there?
Would any of them be interested in purchasing a similar/identical gun to yours?
Be very aware though, that the BATFE view 'straw purchases' in a very dim light, so be very careful that you restrict yourself to doing such a good job of persuading your buddy of the outstanding merits of the particular firearm that they go off of their own volition to purchase it for themselves, with their own money, for their own possession.
There's nothing to stop them giving you a load of it while you're out there, though. :rolleyes:

Could I suggest that you might register yourself over on The High Road, and ask your question in their Legal and Political forum?
There are lots of helpful posters there who will have good knowledge of the situation in the U.S. generally and in New York State particularly.
Be aware of the 'straw purchase' thing though, and don't go suggesting something illegal.

Rew

I carried my Pelican case back through Washington DC and BA recognised it as a rifle case straight away but didnt seem to worried about it. they did ask was there a rifle in there alright

I got the impression people do carry firearms in luggage though.

Clare gunner

Not difficult at all.The US is well geared up for folks travelling with firearms in hold luggage.The problems are usually here and in gun paranoid UK.
Check www.TSA.org or .com,which is the US airport saftey sites for what specs you need in gun cases.Usually it is twin lock hard case with the ammo seperate in a container[usually the original carton] in a seperate hold luggage bag.Ring the airline you are travelling with and ask them what else they require for transporting firearms.
All you need are your gun liscense,passport,EU firearms pass[worth having in the US as well as backup documents]and a letter stating where you are going shooting with whom.IE a hunting company,landowner ,etc.
All in all unless you are going hunting or this is a customised rifle to you,it isnt worth the bother for a 22 rifle.You buy a 22 bolt action in Sears or Wally mart for less than you would pay for one here.

Slav

It is possible. As far as I remember you should either have an invitation to participate in a target shooting event or have a hunting licence that you attach to the firearm import application (Form 6 NIA). Check the ATF web site www.atf.gov or better give them a call.

Slav

Clare gunner wrote:

You buy a 22 bolt action in Sears or Wally mart for less than you would pay for one here.

Technically this is not legal these days. Federal laws require you to be resident of the US for at least 90 days before you can buy a gun from a FFL.

jimbon

But how do you get a license for a country if you are not in it? If i am going to the States then would my Irish license cover me for 2 weeks while i'm there?
I have sent an email to ATF to find out, they would be responsible for it as they are the department of Alcohol,Tobacco and Firearms.

Slav

The licence should be issued by the state you'll be hunting in. If you are going to NY check their DEC site http://www.dec.state.ny.us/website/dfwmr/license/lichunt.html. I think the licence can be mailed to you.

If you are not planning to hunt then I guess a hunting licence from any state would do.

les45

You can apply on line for the import permit , as the lads have outlined it may not be worth the trouble to bring the gun . I have travelled to the Staes for the last 6 years , I would only consider bringing a sporting firearm if the US were hosting the World Champs , otherwise you can hire once you have a hunting licence . www.navada.org.us is a good bet for the hunting licence if you are still keen on bringing your rifle you can apply online https://www.atfonline.gov/eforms6/ . Enjoy the trip.

Clare gunner

Slav wrote:

Technically this is not legal these days. Federal laws require you to be resident of the US for at least 90 days before you can buy a gun from a FFL.

As an example,of the futility of bring a 22 to the US.Selling fridges to Eskimoes an all that.:rolleyes:

jimbon

I wouldn't bring a 22 over there. Shooting a deer would probably feel like a mosquito bite to the deer. I would eventually upgrade to a higher caliber rifle and maybe then bring it with me.
Cheers

jimbon

Below is the rely i got from the ATF (Bureau of Alcohol, Tobaco, Firearms and Explosives) in the USA.

Quote:

The new regulations require any nonimmigrant alien importing firearms or
ammunition into the United States to first obtain an approved import
permit from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF).

First, you should complete ATF Form 6NIA (Form 5330.3D) (Application and
Permit for Importation of Firearms, Ammunition and Implements of War).
The application also can be downloaded from the ATF website at
www.atf.gov, (Form 5330.3D) and submitted in duplicate. You may list
more than one firearm on the application and also may include ammunition
or high capacity magazines on the same application.

The new fax number is Fax 304-616-4554. The telephone is 304-616-4550.
You may Fax or mail your form to:

Bureau of ATF and Explosives
Attention: F & E Imports Branch
244 Needy Road
Martinsburg, WV 25405

In general, nonimmigrant aliens are prohibited from possessing or
receiving firearms or ammunition in the United States. However, there
are exceptions to this prohibition, including (1) an exception for a
nonimmigrant alien in possession of a valid hunting license or permit
issued by a State within the United States and (2) an exception for
nonimmigrant aliens in possession of an invitation or registration to
attend a qualifying competitive target shooting event or a sports or
hunting trade show in the United States. Accordingly, if you are a
nonimmigrant alien, you must attach documentation to your Form 6
application that establishes you fall within one of these exceptions, so
that your possession of the firearms and ammunition in the United States
will be lawful.

Therefore, in order for your application to be approved, you must
provide ATF with a copy of either:

(1) a valid hunting license or permit issued by a State within the
United States, or

(2) an invitation or registration to attend a competitive target
shooting event, or sports or hunting trade show, sponsored by a
national, State, or local organization devoted to the competitive use or
other sporting use of firearms.

If you need information about obtaining a State hunting license or
permit, we suggest you contact any State government. Most States issue
such licenses and permits to nonresidents. If you are attending a
shooting event or trade show and are not sure if it is a qualifying
event, please contact the ATF's Firearms and Explosives Imports Branch
at 304-616-4550 prior to submitting your application. ATF can tell you
whether the event qualifies, and if it does not, you can take steps to
obtain a hunting license or permit instead.

You may not import National Firearms Act weapons, such as machineguns,
short-barreled rifles or shotguns, or silencers. If you are not sure if
the weapons you plan to import fall within these categories, please
contact ATF's Imports Branch.

It takes ATF approximately 6 to 12 weeks to process an import
application.

If your application is approved, ATF will send you an approved Form 6
import permit. (You also will be notified if your application is
denied). The approved permit will have a stamp on it which will clearly
state that the firearms and ammunition authorized for importation under
the permit MUST be taken back out of the United States by the holder of
the permit when the nonimmigrant alien leaves the country (except for
any ammunition that is used while in the United States).

An approved permit is valid for one year from the date of approval.

When you are ready to enter the United States with your firearms and
ammunition, you must present your approved permit to the U.S. Customs
Service. You also must present Customs with documentation demonstrating
that you fall within an exception to the nonimmigrant alien prohibition
(e.g., either a valid State hunting license or permit, or an
invitation/registration for a qualifying competitive target shooting
event or sports or hunting trade show).

You will not need an export permit from the Department of State or the
Department of Commerce to export your firearms and ammunition when you
leave the United States.

If you have any further questions or concerns about importing firearms
or ammunition into the United States, please call Mr. Bublak at
304-616-4550.



Not as easy as you would think.
Cheers

maglite

reply


Thank you but i'm irish not ailein could you please forward copy for idiots

Kind Regards
Paddy

civdef

I have heard it said that any hunting licence works, e.g. an Alaskan one, even if you're visting Florida, because of the way the federal law on firearms importation is written.

Clare gunner

jimbon wrote:

Below is the rely i got from the ATF (Bureau of Alcohol, Tobaco, Firearms and Explosives) in the USA.

Quote:

The new regulations require any nonimmigrant alien importing firearms or
ammunition into the United States to first obtain an approved import
permit from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF).

First, you should complete ATF Form 6NIA (Form 5330.3D) (Application and
Permit for Importation of Firearms, Ammunition and Implements of War).
The application also can be downloaded from the ATF website at
www.atf.gov, (Form 5330.3D) and submitted in duplicate. You may list
more than one firearm on the application and also may include ammunition
or high capacity magazines on the same application.

The new fax number is Fax 304-616-4554. The telephone is 304-616-4550.
You may Fax or mail your form to:

Bureau of ATF and Explosives
Attention: F & E Imports Branch
244 Needy Road
Martinsburg, WV 25405

In general, nonimmigrant aliens are prohibited from possessing or
receiving firearms or ammunition in the United States. However, there
are exceptions to this prohibition, including (1) an exception for a
nonimmigrant alien in possession of a valid hunting license or permit
issued by a State within the United States and (2) an exception for
nonimmigrant aliens in possession of an invitation or registration to
attend a qualifying competitive target shooting event or a sports or
hunting trade show in the United States. Accordingly, if you are a
nonimmigrant alien, you must attach documentation to your Form 6
application that establishes you fall within one of these exceptions, so
that your possession of the firearms and ammunition in the United States
will be lawful.

Therefore, in order for your application to be approved, you must
provide ATF with a copy of either:

(1) a valid hunting license or permit issued by a State within the
United States, or

(2) an invitation or registration to attend a competitive target
shooting event, or sports or hunting trade show, sponsored by a
national, State, or local organization devoted to the competitive use or
other sporting use of firearms.

If you need information about obtaining a State hunting license or
permit, we suggest you contact any State government. Most States issue
such licenses and permits to nonresidents. If you are attending a
shooting event or trade show and are not sure if it is a qualifying
event, please contact the ATF's Firearms and Explosives Imports Branch
at 304-616-4550 prior to submitting your application. ATF can tell you
whether the event qualifies, and if it does not, you can take steps to
obtain a hunting license or permit instead.

You may not import National Firearms Act weapons, such as machineguns,
short-barreled rifles or shotguns, or silencers. If you are not sure if
the weapons you plan to import fall within these categories, please
contact ATF's Imports Branch.

It takes ATF approximately 6 to 12 weeks to process an import
application.

If your application is approved, ATF will send you an approved Form 6
import permit. (You also will be notified if your application is
denied). The approved permit will have a stamp on it which will clearly
state that the firearms and ammunition authorized for importation under
the permit MUST be taken back out of the United States by the holder of
the permit when the nonimmigrant alien leaves the country (except for
any ammunition that is used while in the United States).

An approved permit is valid for one year from the date of approval.

When you are ready to enter the United States with your firearms and
ammunition, you must present your approved permit to the U.S. Customs
Service. You also must present Customs with documentation demonstrating
that you fall within an exception to the nonimmigrant alien prohibition
(e.g., either a valid State hunting license or permit, or an
invitation/registration for a qualifying competitive target shooting
event or sports or hunting trade show).

You will not need an export permit from the Department of State or the
Department of Commerce to export your firearms and ammunition when you
leave the United States.

If you have any further questions or concerns about importing firearms
or ammunition into the United States, please call Mr. Bublak at
304-616-4550.



Not as easy as you would think.
Cheers

How easier could it BE???They have told you everything you need there.What the conditions are,what is illegal and please phone us or mail us if you have quires...Also it tells you how long they need and what time they have to reply.Unlike over here,with all its ambiguities.

jimbon

Hi Clare Gunner
Yes, it is easy but it seems very time consuming. 6 - 12 weeks over here normally means 12 weeks. And how easy or how long does it take in getting a license over here? That i have to find out next.

Civdef
It does say that you need a liense issued in a US state and once you have the license/permit you can travel between states with the same license.

jimbon

Hi Maglite
It wouldn't be very smart to say that to anyone because if you look at any dictionary the word alien means a few things...... here are some examples....

noun 1. a resident born in or belonging to another country who has not acquired citizenship by naturalization (distinguished from citizen).
2. a foreigner.
3. a person who has been estranged or excluded.
4. a creature from outer space; extraterrestrial.
adjective 5. residing under a government or in a country other than that of one's birth without having or obtaining the status of citizenship there.
6. belonging or relating to aliens: alien property.
7. unlike one's own; strange; not belonging to one: alien speech.
8. adverse; hostile; opposed (usually fol. by to or from): ideas alien to modern thinking.
9. extraterrestrial.

There is only one meaning there that refers ro the ALIENS that most people think of when they here the word. But at saying that, It wrecks my hea when i hear them use the word too when refering to a foreigner.
Cheers

Clare gunner

jimbon wrote:

Hi Clare Gunner
Yes, it is easy but it seems very time consuming. 6 - 12 weeks over here normally means 12 weeks. And how easy or how long does it take in getting a license over here? That i have to find out next.

Civdef
It does say that you need a liense issued in a US state and once you have the license/permit you can travel between states with the same license.

That means the MAX time it can take to get things done.It does not mean that it will be issued a minute over 12 weeks,like here.Fed govt organisations are bound by law to give a time as to when things will be issued,and also as to tell you how long it should take to fill in a form[paperwork reduction act].
All in all,if you are getting anything off the Feds.It is appx 6 weeks.What they are doing is covering themselves on time limits.Longest is with full auto stuff,appx 12 weeks.
BTW the import liscense will work,as that is a Federal liscense,not the hunting liscense,that is somthing the State deals with.

maglite

jimbon wrote:

Hi Maglite
It wouldn't be very smart to say that to anyone because if you look at any dictionary the word alien means a few things...... here are some examples....

noun 1. a resident born in or belonging to another country who has not acquired citizenship by naturalization (distinguished from citizen).
2. a foreigner.
3. a person who has been estranged or excluded.
4. a creature from outer space; extraterrestrial.
adjective 5. residing under a government or in a country other than that of one's birth without having or obtaining the status of citizenship there.
6. belonging or relating to aliens: alien property.
7. unlike one's own; strange; not belonging to one: alien speech.
8. adverse; hostile; opposed (usually fol. by to or from): ideas alien to modern thinking.
9. extraterrestrial.

There is only one meaning there that refers ro the ALIENS that most people think of when they here the word. But at saying that, It wrecks my hea when i hear them use the word too when refering to a foreigner.
Cheers

it weas ment as a homours comment,, see the dumb paddy...

Manic Moran

jimbon wrote:

It does say that you need a liense issued in a US state and once you have the license/permit you can travel between states with the same license.

OK.. couple of things to note.

First and foremost, firearms laws in the US are predominantly controlled by the states, not by the federal government. Just because the BATFE says something is cool with them in terms of getting into the country in the first place does not automatically imply that it is cool with the individual states that you will be in. New York can be one of those quirky states, particularly the city. (Upstate is generally gun friendly). Similarly, just because something is cool in a particular state does not mean that another state will agree. This can consist of anything from 'type of firearm' through licenses. There is quite a maze of reciprocity agreements on anything from hunting to CCW licenses, and they run from one extreme to the other. For example, as a non-resident, if you're visiting Vermont you can carry a loaded concealed or visible firearm down the street without as much as asking permission. On the other hand, all forms of handgun are strictly banned in Washington D.C., even if you live there as a US citizen. (Guess which place has higher gun crime)

So, rule 1 is check the laws of the state in which you will be going. It should be pointed out that some federal laws do still apply. For example, the law of honest passage: Let's say I'm in Nevada, and I own.. oh.. a H&K P7 M13 pistol. I want to go to Oregon, which means I have to pass through California. P7M13s are illegal for import in California as they're not on the Certified List. In order to support interstate commerce, federal law provides an immunity from the California law as long as you are just passing through and the weapon is legal in both your journy's start and destination. (And it's locked up)

A license for hunting in one state will probably not be valid in another. Check with the state. Bear in mind also that National Parks are federal land, and you may not have a firearm, regardless of the laws of the state that you happen to be in. On the other hand, National Forests are fair game.

You get the idea.

NTM