A set, my god I have a SET

fuzzbox

Stacks about 600 or so.

I havent been heere long and dont know much about others.

3/6 game

Preflop
I open to 21 with 99, mp and button call

flop (68)
K98 r
I bet 60, mp calls, button makes it 150 to play.

What do you like ?

cardshark202

call and crai the turn sounds good here.

delanec8

Any reads on button? If he cant drop AK here i would just push.

Usually though on this board i would call and CRAI on any turn.

fuzzbox

bah ... I shoved and they both folded

mp was claiming he laid down 2 pair, while button was yakking that he had Kx with some sort of meh kicker.

I thought that one of em might be drawing maybe button with his cr@ppy raise.

Ste05

I think I call and open push turn.

sikes

Ste05 wrote:

I think I call and open push turn.

this is something i never do. why should i do it as opposed to sticking them in on the flop?

delanec8

Ste05 wrote:

I think I call and open push turn.

Why do you open push the turn? Just curious. Do you think he would check behind a lot on the turn if we call the flop reraise?

bops

wp imo
the pot is big enough to be happy to take it down there
no reason to let some lucky fk catch up!!

sikes

sikes wrote:

this is something i never do. why should i do it as opposed to sticking them in on the flop?

STE? not trying to be smart, just wondering why you would open push the turn. cheers

TacT

I like a flat call and turn shove too. It confuses your opponents but if you're raising or jamming the flop they automatically think it's a set or two pair, especially if you're playing in anyway tight. Ok you're giving shots with 2 to a straight but how often are those two actually drawing to it? Not very often I say.

sikes

TacT wrote:

I like a flat call and turn shove too. It confuses your opponents but if you're raising or jamming the flop they automatically think it's a set or two pair, especially if you're playing in anyway tight.

what are we representing if we open shove a blank turn?

TacT wrote:

Ok you're giving shots with 2 to a straight but how often are those two actually drawing to it? Not very often I say.

10J is certainly in the smooth callers range.

TacT

sikes wrote:

what are we representing if we open shove a blank turn?



10J is certainly in the smooth callers range.

a missed draw. It's always in the smooth callers range but most of the time he never has it. Take this example from a guy on tilt who has just bluffed all his stack on a 4 of a suit board with ace high which I posted in this thread here -- http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=52490768&postcount=21 Will you bluff me now please sir since you are on tilt?

[Dec 13 15:38:49] : Hand Start.
[Dec 13 15:38:49] : Seat 1 : blankit1 has $156.04
[Dec 13 15:38:49] : Seat 2 : ND IRISH has $10.50
[Dec 13 15:38:49] : Seat 3 : travtorsk has $121.75
[Dec 13 15:38:49] : Seat 4 : dardon has $97
[Dec 13 15:38:49] : Seat 5 : harpur has $59.25
[Dec 13 15:38:49] : Seat 6 : lovemom has $143.25
[Dec 13 15:38:49] : Seat 7 : Avonal has $20
[Dec 13 15:38:49] : Seat 8 : me has $98.50
[Dec 13 15:38:49] : Seat 9 : lapocaman has $73.66
[Dec 13 15:38:49] : harpur is the dealer.
[Dec 13 15:38:50] : lovemom posted small blind.
[Dec 13 15:38:50] : Avonal posted big blind.
[Dec 13 15:38:50] : Game [92532] started with 9 players.
[Dec 13 15:38:50] : Dealing Hole Cards.
[Dec 13 15:38:50] : Seat 8 : me has Qs Qd
[Dec 13 15:38:53] : me called $1 and raised $4
[Dec 13 15:38:57] : lapocaman called $5
[Dec 13 15:39:01] : blankit1 folded.
[Dec 13 15:39:01] : ND IRISH folded.
[Dec 13 15:39:05] : travtorsk folded.
[Dec 13 15:39:07] : dardon folded.
[Dec 13 15:39:07] : harpur folded.
[Dec 13 15:39:09] : lovemom folded.
[Dec 13 15:39:12] : Avonal folded.
[Dec 13 15:39:13] : Dealing flop.
[Dec 13 15:39:13] : Board cards [Qh Kd 4s]
[Dec 13 15:39:16] : me bet $8
[Dec 13 15:39:20] : lapocaman called $8
[Dec 13 15:39:21] : Dealing turn.
[Dec 13 15:39:21] : Board cards [Qh Kd 4s 3d]
[Dec 13 15:39:25] : me bet $16
[Dec 13 15:39:26] : lapocaman called $16
[Dec 13 15:39:27] : Dealing river.
[Dec 13 15:39:27] : Board cards [Qh Kd 4s 3d 9c]
[Dec 13 15:39:36] : me checked (please bluff me now representing that TJo/TJs).
[Dec 13 15:40:37] : lapocaman bet $35 (cheers matey!)
[Dec 13 15:40:48] : me called $35 and raised $34.50 and is All-in
[Dec 13 15:40:48] : Under-Raise rules are now in effect.
[Dec 13 15:40:53] : lapocaman folded. (that's what I figured)
[Dec 13 15:40:55] : me wins $126.50 as the last player standing
[Dec 13 15:40:58] : Hand is over but I would have liked that $9.95 you had left behind you after that bet....

sikes

hows is that similar to this hand? i think that needs to go to the brag thread, it has no relevance to this discussion.

Anyway, I dont think Fuzz will be seen as a fish who open pushes a missed draw, though maybe wrong seems like its a good way to mix it up ala ste post.

I would think that if the smooth caller smooth calls this raise he has J10 more than Kx

Ste05

sikes wrote:

STE? not trying to be smart, just wondering why you would open push the turn. cheers

Basically, there's 2 things going on in my mind when I do this and you have to balance, the level of risk you want. I think he'll usually have one of the following 2 situations.

Situation A: He's drawing. He might call the flop, he might fold, the re-raise Push will give him about the right odds to draw, so it's not really that great. I don't check the turn, because if he was drawing, I'd need a read that he bets draws aggressively and is willing to push an unimproved turn. Most people will probably take the free card, again I don't like giving 2 free cards. So I'll at least ask him the question on the turn, incase he was drawing.

Situation B: He has a good hand, but not as good as ours. On the flop, he'll fold nearly everything he has, apart from KK and (probably) 88 if we Bet, Push. It looks as strong as we are.

Where as a flop bet, call, call, looks more like a draw, and then an open lead will at least ask these 2 pair, TP hands a question and there's a much better chance he'll call on the turn then on the flop.

And so, I'll take a risk on the flop, but ask the question on the turn, which might get called by a draw (it's up to him, but he'll be making a mistake, if he hit on the turn then we still have outs), also I wouldn't check because the pot is about the size of the tanks left, so there's no real opportunity of a CRAI. If he does some donk little bet information or feeler bet with his 89, KQ or AK, and we push, he might fold again so we win less.

I'm bolloxed tired so that might not have made much sense, but I think it looks the weakest without giving 2 free cards and maximises returns from second best hands.

One little disclaimer is, you have to do this with draws sometimes too, which I would do some times, I'll lead the flop to build the pot if I hit, and call a small raise and push the turn to maximise my turn fold equity while still having outs if I'm caught.

BTW this is all if the board is rainbow, if it's flushing too then I'll push the flop. But if there's only one draw out there, and 2 players involved, then I'm looking to win a very big pot. And so I'll take the 4:1 risk of him hitting on the turn if he is drawing, but I'll try and get more money out of the times he has a second best hand.

Did that make sense??

sikes

cheers STE i see what ur getting at. but would you serioulsy consider pushing J10 on the turn here?

RoundTower

I 3 bet, or call and check the turn which I think is better for this hand in particular.

BigDragon

RoundTower wrote:

I 3 bet, or call and check the turn which I think is better for this hand in particular.

Max value this way I think. Any RRAI on flop or open push on turn loses customers more often than not.....imvho.

cardshark202

Calling the raise and open-pushing the turn is just about the worst line you could take bar folding this hand at some stage.

kebabfest

Your only concern should be what bet he will call here. Why get flashy ?
If you think he will call a reraise push. A flat call is too suspicious in my opinion.
Alright it didnt work out this time as they figured you for a monster, but a fair enough play.

delanec8

kebabfest wrote:

Your only concern should be what bet he will call here. Why get flashy ?
If you think he will call a reraise push. A flat call is too suspicious in my opinion.
Alright it didnt work out this time as they figured you for a monster, but a fair enough play.

Since the reraise is so small i don't think a call would be very suspicious