QQ, weird spot.

fuzzbox

3/6 6-max
Opener is loose (36/16 or something) and doesnt like to fold. We have been playing on this table awhile and have stayed out of each others way pretty much.
Reraiser is like 18/8 over 650 hands.

Opener has 1200 utg+1,
reraiser has 800 in the SB
I have 1100 in the BB

I have QQ

Preflop
Opener makes it 21, button calls, reraiser makes it 55. (I have a note on him where he reraised my open from 21 to 100 preflop and then fired pot, push on the flop and turn). I dont know what to make of this.

I make it 170

How do we like ?

Lafortezza

Better than calling anyway. 18/8 guy, are they pretty nitty stats for this level of 6max?

sikes

lafortezza wrote:

Better than calling anyway.

why?

cardshark202

Not sure I like this one. I think calling is superior here, esp as you want to keep the fish in the pot.

delanec8

Do you think either of these guys are calling your rereraise with less than QQ?
Im calling here for set value since everyone is so deep.

Given the fact that the reraiser is tight and oop here, his small reraise would make me think he has AA/KK here a lot, mostly AA. If he had something like AK,TT,JJ i would expect a much bigger raise and probably be happy to take it down preflop since he is oop.

cardshark202

How have you been playing this session actually?

Ste05

Ye, I think we're over representing our hand slightly, it looks like KK/AA, therefore I expect only really AA or KK to continue from the Nit, and the opener, will probably fold nearly everything he has below that too.

I think I just call too and see what happens. If it goes, re-raise/push then another call or push we can fold.

If it goes fold, call, then we have position.

If it goes raise/push, fold, then I'l use my gut, between pushing and folding.

Although you seem to have alot of play with the Villains so it's probably a, had to be there, decision.

valor

I would just call here given how tight this guy is, we have position on him, we can flop sets & we can win at showdown UI pretty often

fuzzbox

If I call, then so will the other two ... how do we like that ?

Ste05

Don't mind it that much, post flop I don't mind acting after the tight nit, and being OOP to the LAG.

Check, Check, Bet, and the SB's action will tell us what he has.

If the SB leads out, I think we can assume he has AA or KK....

valor

fuzzbox wrote:

If I call, then so will the other two ... how do we like that ?

Im not too happy about it but I have to weigh that against 4 betting the tight ass SB. I think both options suck quite alot. The problem is if we call, and both people behind us call and the flop comes 337 rainbow or even worse something like 789flush draw and the SB checks, wtf do we do? If we check and someone behind us bets its going to suck quite alot too. I dont think we can put in much money profitably if we just call the SB's re raise, unless we hit a Q

I think on second thought 4 betting and not putting in anymore money at all unless we hit a Q might be the best option. Theres alot of money out there to take down right now, and theres the possibility the SB is pulling a squeeze or has AK or JJ and will fold it. He may even cold call with KK/AA and give us a chance to bust him, or else the flop may come scary and we can at least show the hand down, in position.

4 betting also has the added benefit of giving us a more aggressive image

I think the latter option is probably higher ev, but is the correct move for players who will have trouble folding QQ postflop on a non scary board if the pot goes 4 way

Jaden

Does anyone else other than me consider a fold preflop here?

I probably just smooth call and evaluate the flop, as I have position on the SB who worries me here, but on the flop, alot of textures don't suit me. The only flop I'd like is one with a Q, and no A or K. The SB's flop action is nearly certainly going to be a decent whack of chips. At this stage I'd probably start wishing I'd have folded preflop.

sikes

Jaden wrote:

Does anyone else other than me consider a fold preflop here?

we are getting nice odds to hit a set, with the other two in hand as well. so even if he turned over AA we are still correct to call.

cardshark202

Folding preflop would be just terrible.

I don't think re-raising is too bad but I don't like the possible spots we get into if called or raised. And if we call and there is 4 to the flop, I would consider 337 to be an excellent flop and I would bet if checked to here. But if the re-raiser then leads a low flop I would probably call or fold, not sure which yet. Guess it depends on the bet size.

Jaden

3+6 = 9 in blinds
Open of 21 = 30 total.
Re-raise to 55 = 85 total.
The BB has to call 46.

If you knew both the other two would call, you would still not be getting odds to call assuming either one has AA/KK. But it is close (or my maths is bad, it's early).

Failing a fold, I would probably raise, but wouldn't be too happy about it.

cardshark202

Its called implied odds

sikes

obvioulsy pot odds are nowhere near enough. < 4/1, if they call, but look how deep we are.

pok3rplaya

Most people don't squeeze UTG raisers, especially nits. So he has:

2 hands that crush us AA/KK
1 hand we flip with AK
1 hand we crush JJ

Call>Raise>>>>>>>>>Fold.

cardshark202

pok3rplaya wrote:

Most people don't squeeze UTG raisers, especially nits. So he has:

2 hands that crush us AA/KK
1 hand we flip with AK
1 hand we crush JJ

Call>Raise>>>>>>>>>Fold.

Occasionally he has:

TT or AQs or one or 2 other holdings but he generally will prob just call with them.

robinlacey

this is a crap situation cause if you raise you're pretty much bluffing

i think the only option really here is to call,but i'm not saying i'd like it!

i think having an underepresented hand is better than an over represented one-having said that your cold call might scare both of the players a little,but they will still probably put you on 77-QQ or something,so its not the end of the world..

fuzzbox

robinlacey wrote:

this is a crap situation cause if you raise you're pretty much bluffing

i think the only option really here is to call,but i'm not saying i'd like it!

i think having an underepresented hand is better than an over represented one-having said that your cold call might scare both of the players a little,but they will still probably put you on 77-QQ or something,so its not the end of the world..

In the OP, I said that I have seen this particular villain reraise my open raise HARD (I made it 21, and he mad it 100). He then pot the flop and push the turn. I dont know what he had, because I folded to the turn bet.
However, I think its somewhat significant.

Here, he makes a *tiny* raise. He knows that the original raiser is a loose-goose, so he is probably just raising with a good hand, to take control and maybe "find out where he is". He must be pretty sure that both of his opponents are going to call this reraise with pretty much all of their holdings.

I think I have the best hand a lot here, so I raise.

What some ppl seem to be missing is:
Pot = open raiser 21, button, 21, sb 55 for a total of ~100. I raise a bit more than pot, because I would prefer if everybody folded here as I am oop and we are quite deep.

They all fold.

I think I would have laid down to a SB shove though.