What's with the bias towards indie pop and the hypocritical snobbish attitude?

JC 2K3

I didn't listen to Phantom back in the pirate days, therefore I'm new to listening and only really started when it launched last October.

It's not bad, it's good to hear the odd tune you'd think you'd never hear on Irish radio, however, some things annoy me about it...

What's with the bias towards indie pop? 90% of what I hear on Phantom(besides the speciality music shows - I've only listened to the metal one and it was pretty good) is either mainstream indie pop(which you'd hear on any other radio station anyway) or mainstream sounding indie from some up and coming band. Why no up and coming indie/rock bands with a different kind of sound?

I find the slogan "quality sounds only" and the ads that slag off listeners of "disposable rubbish"(as if most of the stuff played on Phantom isn't) extremely annoying. Phantom's definition of "good music" seems to be the mainstream pop scene minus any band/artist without a guitar/guitars and any band that sounds like these bands, especially Irish bands.

I don't like to criticise something which obviously isn't a bad thing. Phantom is a positive thing for music. All I'm saying is that a better mix of sounds would be nice, it's annoying having to listening for 2 hours and only getting 1 or 2 good songs(IMO). If Phantom's goal is to be an outlet for radio friendly indie-pop then so be it, but if that is the case then please stop this hypocritical, elitist advertising.

Patti Smith

There's no pleasing some people

Silverfish

You accidentally tuned into FM104, didn't you.

I've heard about three songs on Phantom that I just *might* have heard on Tom Dunne's show on whatever station it is/was, and his show is on for an hour or two, and Phantom is on 24 hrs a day. No competition, really.

And, as I have a general dislike of standard 'Indie pop' I can tell you I don't have a clue what you're talking about.

The 'odd' tune you'd never hear on Irish Radio? What? Seriously, what? I went a few years without Phantom, and I've not heard any decent music on Irish radio in that time.

Mainstream pop? What on earth. This is the current Irish top thirty.

Out of that, there's about three bands/singers I heard once on Phantom.


Nothing mainstream about one tenth.

projectmayhem

while i disagree with the "sure you'd hear it on fm104" idea, most of phantom's music is indie rock stuff, which doesn't cater to "everyone". the night time shows that cater for specific tastes are fantastic, so it would be nice to hear a mix of everything during the daytime. what's wrong with having bell x1 next to rammstein? that's alternative!

JC 2K3

projectmayhem wrote:

while i disagree with the "sure you'd hear it on fm104" idea, most of phantom's music is indie rock stuff, which doesn't cater to "everyone". the night time shows that cater for specific tastes are fantastic, so it would be nice to hear a mix of everything during the daytime. what's wrong with having bell x1 next to rammstein? that's alternative!

That's exactly what I'm getting at.

Ok, you won't hear a lot of this music on FM104 etc. but you would hear the popular tracks on other stations, and in general I don't think the sound of much of the other stuff varies much. Yes I know that this is 2006 and this is the general sound of "indie" music these days. But surely the mix of songs can be varied a bit to have some different sounding stuff. I don't mind that the majority of stuff is this modern flavour of indie rock, but why not have a few more experimental or heavier tracks in the mix?

Silverfish

JC 2K3 wrote:

That's exactly what I'm getting at.

Ok, you won't hear a lot of this music on FM104 etc. but you would hear the popular tracks on other stations

What other stations?

JC 2K3 wrote:

I don't mind that the majority of stuff is this modern flavour of indie rock, but why not have a few more experimental or heavier tracks in the mix?

Can you give examples of what's offending you, and what you'd like?

You can text in and request songs you know, and I'd imagine a lot of people do. So, blame them. Do you blame the weatherman for the weather?

JC 2K3

Silverfish wrote:

What other stations?

Sigh.. I don't listen to the radio much outside phantom being on in the background sometimes. I've heard indie like the Killers, Razorlight etc. on radio stations other than phantom, that's all I'm saying.

Silverfish wrote:

Can you give examples of what's offending you, and what you'd like?

Nothing's "offending" me in the slightest. What I'd like? The odd metal or industrial or noise rock song during peak hours, some 80s/90s alternative rock that isn't Nirvana or Smashing Pumpkins, classic rock that isn't Zeppelin or Thunderstruck by ACDC, some experimental music etc. Just a bit more variety mixed in with the current type of music played.

Silverfish wrote:

You can text in and request songs you know, and I'd imagine a lot of people do. So, blame them. Do you blame the weatherman for the weather?

Texted in 5 times. Name been read out with my request 5 times. Tracks I requested played 0 times.

Silverfish

JC 2K3 wrote:

Sigh.. I don't listen to the radio much outside phantom being on in the background sometimes. I've heard indie like the Killers, Razorlight etc. on radio stations other than phantom, that's all I'm saying.

No, what you are saying is 'What's with the bias towards indie pop and the hypocritical snobbish attitude?'

Those are pretty strong words, for someone who's 'just saying' that they heard the Killers, Razorlight etc on Phantom and heard them on another radio station too and it was all too awful and you just had to complain.

I haven't noticed a 'bias'. If you just have it on in the background, maybe you're listening at the wrong times. Maybe listen for 24 hours. They have a lot of specialist programmes, focusing on a broad Spectrum (geddit?) of music.

So, maybe in the hours you're listening, 'sometimes' as you put it, you don't really have the full picture.

Its a bit like only watching tv from 6 to 6.30 and saying 'Damn tv, all it shows is the news!'

catch--22

Silverfish wrote:

.... focusing on a broad Spectrum (geddit?) of music.........

Nice!

JC 2K3

Silverfish wrote:

No, what you are saying is 'What's with the bias towards indie pop and the hypocritical snobbish attitude?'

Those are pretty strong words, for someone who's 'just saying' that they heard the Killers, Razorlight etc on Phantom and heard them on another radio station too and it was all too awful and you just had to complain.

I haven't noticed a 'bias'. If you just have it on in the background, maybe you're listening at the wrong times. Maybe listen for 24 hours. They have a lot of specialist programmes, focusing on a broad Spectrum (geddit?) of music.

So, maybe in the hours you're listening, 'sometimes' as you put it, you don't really have the full picture.

Its a bit like only watching tv from 6 to 6.30 and saying 'Damn tv, all it shows is the news!'

Dude, specialist programmes are on for 2 hours a day and I excluded them from my rant in my OP. I turn Phantom on any time I'm on the PC or in a room with a radio(mainly my kitchen). Phantom has a particular sound, and, although they sometimes play some different kickass stuff and that's great, they don't deviate much from it most of the time.

The "hypocritical snobbish attitude" is an issue I have with their advertising, you can forget that point if you like, it's not that big a deal.

Silverfish

"Dude". Ok.

Music is subjective. What's your taste won't be someone else's, and vice versa.

I'm pretty confident that if Phantom played what YOU like all day every day, other people would be unhappy.

They know what they're doing, they're doing it long enough. I'm sure that as a station they'll progress and grow as most successful businesses do, and will take the opinions of the majority on board as they do. Unfortunately for you, that's appears to be what they've done already. And I'm also pretty sure that giving your opinion with the attitude you are putting across here, that you are not helping your one-man crusade.

JC 2K3

Yeah I know.

tbh, I'm having a bad day, I'm not usually one for moaning.

In fairness though, the state of Irish radio being so terrible and then hearing that a station's going to get an "alternative" licence is exciting, when it turns out the station that gets the licence doesn't play much of your kind of music it's frustrating...

Silverfish

Ha!

Its Universal bad Day, fantastic, thought it was just me.

Well, having a fairly diverse musical taste, there is not going to be a station that will keep me happy. However, I find Phantom keeps me more happy than any other radio station, ever, and any of the collection of cd's in my car, because even they get boring after a while.

I found about two new bands I liked in the last three years.

Since Phantom have been on air, I've found about 8. So I think that brings my musical happiness up a bit. Okay, they don't play what I like all the time, but if they ever did, then I'd be their only listener. I think the same goes for everyone out there.

Its about keeping most of the people happy, most of the time.

JC 2K3

They're playing Ava Adore right now, lol, ironically I love this song...

Gonzo_Reporter

Hey JC 2K3 check out their timetable and pick the shows that reflect your musical tastes and there WILL be a show trust me. otherwise i suggest txting in earlier in the show or the top of the hour, sometimes my txts dont make it hasnt stopped me trying.
Their advertising is aimed at people like me (cos i cant speak for everybody, wish i could though, oh the fun i could have) who have grown bored of the rest of Irish music radio stations and hate pop music, i havent really listened to the radio since phantom went off air and ive gone off 2fm since they changed the schedule and booted Jenny Huston. i like the ads besause i cant identify with them.
i think looking back through your post, which have a bit of a "hypocritical snobbish" attitude to them, is that maybe your taste of music isnt that board but constant listening to phantom will change that.

P.S since the time i have been reading/writing this thread The smashing pumkins bob dylan, the shins have been on Phantom. try finding them on, lol, fm104.
didint see your last post

JC 2K3

Gonzo_Reporter wrote:

Hey JC 2K3 check out their timetable and pick the shows that reflect your musical tastes and there WILL be a show trust me. otherwise i suggest txting in earlier in the show or the top of the hour, sometimes my txts dont make it hasnt stopped me trying.

My suggestion was they make the general playlist(at peak times, not 2 hours at night) more strikingly varied.

Oh and there's no Alternative 80s/90s speciality shows, no noise rock, no experimental electronica, prog rock etc. They don't have a show for every genre like you say I'm afraid(not that I'd expect them to).

Gonzo_Reporter wrote:

Their advertising is aimed at people like me (cos i cant speak for everybody, wish i could though, oh the fun i could have) who have grown bored of the rest of Irish music radio stations and hate pop music, i havent really listened to the radio since phantom went off air and ive gone off 2fm since they changed the schedule and booted Jenny Huston. i like the ads besause i cant identify with them.

The Phantom playlist listed on their site includes pop, Phantom plays some pop and slags other pop, it makes no sense. I hate pop music too and don't understand Phantom's attitude. Maybe they don't play as much pop as other stations and maybe people see the pop they play as superior to other pop because they have guitars or something(???), but it doesn't mean they can claim to not play pop or give them the right to declare that they play "Quality sounds only".

Gonzo_Reporter wrote:

i think looking back through your post, which have a bit of a "hypocritical snobbish" attitude to them, is that maybe your taste of music isnt that board but constant listening to phantom will change that.

I have a broad taste in music. It doesn't include pop music and I don't care about when songs/albums are released, be it 20 years ago or last week. In terms of music I'm not "with it" I guess, the general sound of most indie bands these days I find uninteresting. And after listening to Phantom a good bit I haven't heard anything new that's massively original or exciting...

Gonzo_Reporter wrote:

P.S since the time i have been reading/writing this thread The smashing pumkins bob dylan, the shins have been on Phantom. try finding them on, lol, fm104.

They always play Smashing Pumpkins, not that that's a bad thing, but why not some other 90s grunge/alternative(that's not Nirvana) like Sonic Youth, Alice in Chains, Husker Du etc. Bob Dylan is good, but along with Zeppelin and ACDC he is one of the only older bands they play.

I know Phantom plays music other stations don't, but doesn't mean they can't improve on some things.

Gonzo_Reporter wrote:

i suggest txting in earlier in the show or the top of the hour, sometimes my txts dont make it hasnt stopped me trying.

Last night I texed asking for some Meat Puppets, he(John?) announced on air that he had no Meat Puppets and to text in with something else, so I texted in asking for Yeah We Know by Dinosaur Jr. or Down in a Hole by Alice in Chains. I got a text back asking if they were slow/mellow songs. I texted back asserting that Down in a Hole was indeed mellow and listened to the end of the show not hearing it......

No Meat Puppets wasn't exactly shocking but very disappointing, what I found strange was the Alternative rock DJ, who'd just played smashing pumpkins, didn't seem to have heard Down in a Hole by Alice in Chains......

Smurfpiss

JC 2K3 wrote:

My suggestion was they make the general playlist(at peak times, not 2 hours at night) more strikingly varied.

in fairness the general playlist A is contemporary music. name a band you like that has a release at the mo?

JC 2K3 wrote:

Oh and there's no Alternative 80s/90s speciality shows, no noise rock, no experimental electronica, prog rock etc. They don't have a show for every genre like you say I'm afraid(not that I'd expect them to).

prog rock ya might get a little of on power chords. but id like to hear more pink floyd.
Id love to see some experimental. A bit of techno/rock (a la new radiohead), some post rock (eg mogwai) and "screwed up jazz/trash can rhythm mad stuff" like new tom waits.
Also yeah i think a punk show could do quite well. if not that an 80s show. why the hell not, there was good music then...ya just had to dig a little

JC 2K3 wrote:

The Phantom play list listed on their site includes pop, Phantom plays some pop and slags other pop, it makes no sense. I hate pop music too and don't understand Phantom's attitude. Maybe they don't play as much pop as other stations and maybe people see the pop they play as superior to other pop because they have guitars or something(???), but it doesn't mean they can claim to not play pop or give them the right to declare that they play "Quality sounds only".

ok there never was, and never will be, an exact definition of what's pop and what isn't. And, in fairness, phantom has to play what's popular. not necessarily what's sh1te. Just good music that lots of sensible people like. Having said that i see red every time i hear CSS on the radio, but other people like it. I don't agree with their taste of music but ill defend to the death etc...

JC 2K3 wrote:

I have a broad taste in music. It doesn't include pop music and I don't care about when songs/albums are released, be it 20 years ago or last week. In terms of music I'm not "with it" I guess, the general sound of most indie bands these days I find uninteresting. And after listening to Phantom a good bit I haven't heard anything new that's massively original or exciting...


They always play Smashing Pumpkins, not that that's a bad thing, but why not some other 90s grunge/alternative(that's not Nirvana) like Sonic Youth, Alice in Chains, Husker Du etc. Bob Dylan is good, but along with Zeppelin and ACDC he is one of the only older bands they play.

Ok, aybe music just isn't as good as it was in the good ol days for you?
Bit more sonic youth would be nice alright.

JC 2K3 wrote:

I know Phantom plays music other stations don't, but doesn't mean they can't improve on some things.

I fully agree and i'm sure so do all at phantom towers. Don't think that they're settling into some cosy routine. they will change to please their audience, to a degree of course.

JC 2K3 wrote:

Last night I texed asking for some Meat Puppets, he(John?) announced on air that he had no Meat Puppets and to text in with something else, so I texted in asking for Yeah We Know by Dinosaur Jr. or Down in a Hole by Alice in Chains. I got a text back asking if they were slow/mellow songs. I texted back asserting that Down in a Hole was indeed mellow and listened to the end of the show not hearing it......

No Meat Puppets wasn't exactly shocking but very disappointing, what I found strange was the Alternative rock DJ, who'd just played smashing pumpkins, didn't seem to have heard Down in a Hole by Alice in Chains......

In fairness, he didn't know the song, maybe he'll give it a listen and play it next time. and there is a huuuuggge amount of requests sent in every night.
can't get around to them all. my advice, text in asking for bands more than songs. maybe give a few choices.

JC 2K3

Smurfpiss wrote:

in fairness the general playlist A is contemporary music. name a band you like that has a release at the mo?

Hmm... Buckethead had a new album out last September which I've not gotten around to checking out yet. Can't think of anything else I like that was released in the last 3 months, thinking about it though this just happens to be a bad spell for music I like. 2005 and the first half of 2006 had a few good albums and in 2007 there's new Meat Puppets, Dinosaur Jr and smashing pumpkins albums so hope they all get some spins on Phantom.

Point taken though.

Smurfpiss wrote:

prog rock ya might get a little of on power chords. but id like to hear more pink floyd.
Id love to see some experimental. A bit of techno/rock (a la new radiohead), some post rock (eg mogwai) and "screwed up jazz/trash can rhythm mad stuff" like new tom waits.
Also yeah i think a punk show could do quite well. if not that an 80s show. why the hell not, there was good music then...ya just had to dig a little

Yeah that's what I mean.

80s rocked for the postpunk alone, especially the American scene with SST records etc.

Smurfpiss wrote:

ok there never was, and never will be, an exact definition of what's pop and what isn't. And, in fairness, phantom has to play what's popular. not necessarily what's sh1te. Just good music that lots of sensible people like. Having said that i see red every time i hear CSS on the radio, but other people like it. I don't agree with their taste of music but ill defend to the death etc...

I must say, that CSS song(Hot sex or something??) was one of the things that drove me to start this topic. Absolute crap.

I know exactly what Phantom's doing and I know exactly the type of people they're trying to appeal to, and there's shítloads more of them than me, but I'd love a bit more stuff I'd like on the station that has the "alternative" licence.

Smurfpiss wrote:

Ok, aybe music just isn't as good as it was in the good ol days for you?
Bit more sonic youth would be nice alright.

I always hate to sound like that since I'm open to lots of stuff and there is kickass music around these days, it's just not very popular at all. But the 80s/90s alternative scene is my favourite type of music all right.

Smurfpiss wrote:

In fairness, he didn't know the song, maybe he'll give it a listen and play it next time. and there is a huuuuggge amount of requests sent in every night.
can't get around to them all. my advice, text in asking for bands more than songs. maybe give a few choices.

I asked for bands the majority of times. And I don't think the amount of requests is that huge considering my texts are always read out...

Smurfpiss

JC 2K3 wrote:

Hmm... Buckethead had a new album out last September which I've not gotten around to checking out yet. Can't think of anything else I like that was released in the last 3 months, thinking about it though this just happens to be a bad spell for music I like. 2005 and the first half of 2006 had a few good albums and in 2007 there's new Meat Puppets, Dinosaur Jr and smashing pumpkins albums so hope they all get some spins on Phantom.

I'm sure they wouldn't mind if ya posted them some of the more obscure albums that you like :P

JC 2K3 wrote:

I must say, that CSS song(Hot sex or something??) was one of the things that drove me to start this topic. Absolute crap.

I could list off dozens of artists that phantom has played down through the years that i don't like, but it's the only station that has ever got me excited about bands. It's the only station that has introduced me to a tonne of bands i would otherwise never have heard of. There will always be music that ya can't stand. them's the brakes.

JC 2K3 wrote:

I know exactly what Phantom's doing and I know exactly the type of people they're trying to appeal to, and there's shítloads more of them than me, but I'd love a bit more stuff I'd like on the station that has the "alternative" licence.


I always hate to sound like that since I'm open to lots of stuff and there is kickass music around these days, it's just not very popular at all. But the 80s/90s alternative scene is my favourite type of music all right.

So, in summary; less indie, more alternative.
Perhaps there will be a show to cater specifically for your needs one day. who knows? mean time hang in there, keep an open mind, there'll always be a few gems every hour. and as always, make those requests.

JC 2K3 wrote:

I asked for bands the majority of times. And I don't think the amount of requests is that huge considering my texts are always read out...

I think they make a point of reading out all texts (except the dodgy ones) if ya hear the amount of requests that get made...well it would be impossible to satisfy everyone. there's just no guarantee.

JC 2K3

Smurfpiss wrote:

I'm sure they wouldn't mind if ya posted them some of the more obscure albums that you like :P

Considering I rarely buy albums I'd be open to that, dunno if I'd ever get around to it though.

Gonzo_Reporter

I havent put as much thought into to this debate as JC 2K3 and it is obvious he feel passionate about it. And now i do see that maybe i was a bit quick to criticise your music tastes. As Smurfpiss rightly said one should defend their musical tastes to death. I do see where your coming from.

However regardless of how people define, the long outdated word, POP some of it will creep onto Phantom and i dont mean Kyle. For example i would regard some of the The Killers or Franz Ferdinand stuff popie, because it does appeal to a lot of people across musical tastes. this doesnt mean there going to stop playing some of the biggest selling albums of the last year because it appeals to too many people. There are only 24 hours in the day they cant play to everbodys favourite taste hence the reason they play said music. I prefer this than no Phantom at ALL.

The songs i picked the other night, which you obviously heard, where over a 20min period (radiohead was played too) and thats good going!

I happy to listen to Phantom all day every hour there will be a song i love the other stuff is great too.

Of COURSE there is room of improvement nothing is perfect, Phantom as a commericial station has only been around for a while. But it is refreshing to hear music that is primalily selected by as Smufpiss put it sensible people's requests, rather than a computer (which happens in most other stations, everything is automised, even the DJ i find).

I think people were intilialy put off by your original post. I myself thought you were slightly Slating a station that for years was the only way to hear good/New-Irish rock music. I liked it as a Pirate and i like it now. And i believe the marjority of its old listeners feel they same way.
Thats my ¢2 anyway.

JC 2K3

Gonzo_Reporter wrote:

However regardless of how people define, the long outdated word, POP some of it will creep onto Phantom and i dont mean Kyle. For example i would regard some of the The Killers or Franz Ferdinand stuff popie, because it does appeal to a lot of people across musical tastes. this doesnt mean there going to stop playing some of the biggest selling albums of the last year because it appeals to too many people. There are only 24 hours in the day they cant play to everbodys favourite taste hence the reason they play said music. I prefer this than no Phantom at ALL.

I guess it's just my opinion, but I can't see the sense in slagging Shakira and Black Eyed Peas and then playing the Killers and Franz Ferdinand... I mean by all means play these mainstream indie bands, but slagging the non-guitar-driven side of pop is hypocritical in my view.

Gonzo_Reporter wrote:

Of COURSE there is room of improvement nothing is perfect, Phantom as a commericial station has only been around for a while. But it is refreshing to hear music that is primalily selected by as Smufpiss put it sensible people's requests, rather than a computer (which happens in most other stations, everything is automised, even the DJ i find).

The assertion that the people who's song requests get played is a bit snobbish IMO, I mean I do know where you're coming from, but it doesn't make comments like these right. I'm not saying Phantom should play more pop, but I think Phantom should be avoiding being seen as elitist.

Gonzo_Reporter wrote:

I think people were intilialy put off by your original post. I myself thought you were slightly Slating a station that for years was the only way to hear good/New-Irish rock music. I liked it as a Pirate and i like it now. And i believe the marjority of its old listeners feel they same way.
Thats my ¢2 anyway.

I wasn't slating it if you read the actual post and not just the title, it was constructive criticism although I admit now it was a bit harsh in parts...

Gonzo_Reporter

I still dont see where you get hypocritical from, after that particular ad they may also come back Republic of Loose - Girl im going to F***K you up or Slayer! Slagging off the likes of Shakira is just marketing, Phantoms core audience slag off pop acts all the time.

its not snobbish saying that it us that pick the music, the listener of Phantom have a good taste in music thats why we listen to it, not all our favourite songs are going to played but its like Pandora.com you'll hear music along the same lines as your favourite bands. If you like the 80s/90s alternative scene so much i suggest going straight to the source and email Phantom they might do a show if there is a really want for it

I really do give up I no longer see a real point to your argument other than their advertising which you already said:
"The "hypocritical snobbish attitude" is an issue I have with their advertising, you can forget that point if you like, it's not that big a deal"

JC 2K3

I don't actually mean to sound argumentative.... This thread's essentially developed into a discussion of possible improvements that could be made to Phantom.

Gonzo_Reporter wrote:

its not snobbish saying that it us that pick the music, the listener of Phantom have a good taste in music thats why we listen to it, not all our favourite songs are going to played but its like Pandora.com you'll hear music along the same lines as your favourite bands. If you like the 80s/90s alternative scene so much i suggest going straight to the source and email Phantom they might do a show if there is a really want for it

It's not snobbish saying you pick the music, it's snobbish asserting that Phantom listeners are "sensible" and seemingly better than listeners of other radio stations. Why can't Phantom just exist and play good music rather than asserting it's better than other stations?

Anyway, screw the advertising argument, it's a minor thing that irritates me slightly, it's not important.

Matthewthebig

I like Phantom. Not so much since it's come back that is due to a growth in my musical taste as opposed to any reduction in their quality.

The music during the day is listenable to. It is not amazing and it is far from shíte(in most cases). Now i like CSS. But then again I am into the electroclash/riot grrl stuff and would not really classify them as pop, although some might. They have always been an indie station tbh. Well from what i remember.

My only major complaint about what Phantom have played since they have come back is MCR and Aiden. Both pop emo songs. I know some people like these bands, but the PHantom I remember would not have played them in the past. Although this could be to do with the fact that since they are now legit and advertising and will be drawing the "alternative" youth with their music and their clothes.

So yeah. That was a long post.

Gonzo_Reporter

I would admit that maybe Phantom has lost some of its mystery since its emerged from the shroud that was Pirate radio and became legit but that is to be expected, they now longer have to hide Phantom Towers or covertly transmit their "revolutionary" music*. Instead, it has gained the status and recognition it deserves.

this thread HAS evolved so I say "Screw the advertising" as JC 2K3 so delicately put it. As Orwell once said: Advertising is the rattling of a stick inside a swill bucket. and i didnt just look that up!

The only things i could see that would is missing and would LOVE to be dusted off and brought back are X Minus 1 and that other 1940's radio drama which i cant remember the name of. Anyone know?
I liked hearing the old ads for why we should all buy War Bonds! I also like Anorak Hour where they revisted old famous radio monents like when (i think it was) Radio Caroline was being shut down in the middle of the sea by the British Navy, th DJ lock himself in the studio and kept broadcasting. Or when Che Guevara came to Ireland Gay Bryne discribed the day. It was like turning on the radio and be transported back in time with that show. People txted phantom wondering if it was still there, fantasic. SORRY about the nastalgic rant.

I have more to say about the other issue raised by JC 2K3 but i cant seem to put it properly to page (its been all long day my brain is mush, TGIF) so i might just leave it and concentrate on the positive.

*ok the music isnt really revolutionary but it word fitted the mood i was looking for.

ThousandLeaves

Matthewthebig wrote:

I like Phantom. Not so much since it's come back that is due to a growth in my musical taste as opposed to any reduction in their quality.

The music during the day is listenable to. It is not amazing and it is far from shíte(in most cases). Now i like CSS. But then again I am into the electroclash/riot grrl stuff and would not really classify them as pop, although some might. They have always been an indie station tbh. Well from what i remember.

My only major complaint about what Phantom have played since they have come back is MCR and Aiden. Both pop emo songs. I know some people like these bands, but the PHantom I remember would not have played them in the past. Although this could be to do with the fact that since they are now legit and advertising and will be drawing the "alternative" youth with their music and their clothes.

So yeah. That was a long post.

I'd agree with that, I think its more of a change in my taste than in what they play, for the most part anyway.
Phantom is biased towards indie pop because that's what people are going to listen to. I personally don't like it but, if it played what I wanted I doubt it would be able to build much of an audience.
The way I figure, most radio stations you'd get maybe a couple of hours a day dedicated to what phantom play. With phantom you get a couple of hours a day dedicated to something close to what you want to hear. Not perfect but a considerable improvement.

Still, I wish they'd be a bit more adventurous from time to time.

Piste

Matthewthebig wrote:

My only major complaint about what Phantom have played since they have come back is MCR and Aiden. Both pop emo songs.

Matthewthebig complaining about emo?! What is the world coming to?!

And Aiden is actually screamo.

I really don't like that Shakira/Blackeyed peas ad, I happen to like Hips don't Lie, THANK you very much...

JC 2K3

Piste wrote:

Matthewthebig complaining about emo?! What is the world coming to?!

And Aiden is actually screamo.

Screamo, emo, pop punk, what's the difference, it's all just overtly commercialised, generic music. Sure the existance of "emo" as a musical genre is even debatable.

Piste wrote:

I really don't like that Shakira/Blackeyed peas ad, I happen to like Hips don't Lie, THANK you very much...

Well you're on the opposite end of the scale to me in terms of reasons to dislike it. But why do you have to affirm you music taste as if you're more open minded than any of us or something? Objective argument please.

Smurfpiss

This is all descending into one man's meat is another man's poison. hate to use such a cheesy saying but its true. "Screamo, emo, pop punk, what's the difference" is generalising to the extreme. Sure you may not like the genres but no sense in dismissing them as the same.

As for pistes comment about shakira, like gonzo said; "it's just marketing." They're taking the piss. Most people cant stand her, but we all have our shameful secrets

Not really sure where this thread is going tbh...
But add me to the list of "my tastes have grown, phantom hasn't changed it's ethos"
Which is a good thing.
would love to hear some godspeed you black emperor on phantom some day tho...
25 min songs? gowannnnnn..

JC 2K3

Smurfpiss wrote:

This is all descending into one man's meat is another man's poison. hate to use such a cheesy saying but its true. "Screamo, emo, pop punk, what's the difference" is generalising to the extreme. Sure you may not like the genres but no sense in dismissing them as the same.

Re: emo, I agree with the guy from Fugazi:

Even still, the difficulty in defining "emo" as a genre may have started at the very beginning. In a 2003 interview by Mark Prindle, Guy Picciotto of Fugazi and Rites of Spring was asked how he felt about "being the creator of the emo genre". He responded: "I don't recognize that attribution. I've never recognized 'emo' as a genre of music. I always thought it was the most retarded term ever. I know there is this generic commonplace that every band that gets labeled with that term hates it. They feel scandalized by it. But honestly, I just thought that all the bands I played in were punk rock bands. The reason I think it's so stupid is that - what, like the Bad Brains weren't emotional? What - they were robots or something? It just doesn't make any sense to me.".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emo_(music)

Tbh, I wasn't generalising. I don't dismiss pop-punk, there's just so many unnecessary buzzwords in existance to describe punk/pop-punk bands that deviate slightly from the main idea of punk/pop-punk.(I was responding to Piste's "They're screamo actually" comment)

Smurfpiss wrote:

Not really sure where this thread is going tbh...
But add me to the list of "my tastes have grown, phantom hasn't changed it's ethos"
Which is a good thing.
would love to hear some godspeed you black emperor on phantom some day tho...
25 min songs? gowannnnnn..

It'd be cool if Phantom did a show where a different person every week with a "different" music taste could pick the playlist for an hour or two.

Dubhthamlacht

I tuned into the morning time show when going to work a couple of days ago. I heard Warlords of Pez and Sonic Youth in that time. Neither could be termed the most conventional music you'll ever heard.

Having listened to Phantom in the old days, I think Cathal Funge was the one DJ who was most likely to play something just way out there. I remember texting in if he had any Mr. Lif with him and he actually sent a text back saying no, but he had some RJD2. How cool was that? Sadly Cathal is stuck on the Saturday morning slot. slipping in some Sigur Ros album track or something equally off beat was par for the course and this was something i liked.

I do get the complaint that is being made here. I think he's looking for some more music that isn't so mainstream even in indie/alternative circles. They do play that kind of less mainstream indie stuff but it is in the minority compared to the Killers/Razorlight etc.

JimiTime

Sorry, Just have to say. I lived in London for 4 years. Over there we had XFM, which I thought was great. It had a great mix of more commercial Indie stuff and the more obscure. In fairness it had Ricky Gervais and Stephen Merchant as Djs on A Saturday, which was also great. I married a girl from London and when we moved to Dublin, the first thing she said was, 'My God, Irish radio is sh!t'. Phantom is the saviour! Finally a real alternative. They have to keep more commercial indie on the station. I heard Razorlight years ago on XFM when they were just starting. I heard Jet, Hot Chip, The Libertines etc also. Just because they then become the mainstream and cross over to the regular stations should not take away from where they came from. Phanthom seem to be doing the same. Both myself and especially my wife, Salute u Phantom. Things can only get better!! (and no that wasn't a request:D )

rozeboosje

Smurfpiss wrote:

I'm sure they wouldn't mind if ya posted them some of the more obscure albums that you like :P

I think I sent them at least 4 texts and one e-mail extolling the virtues of a pet band of mine: Cranes. Never heard them play a single song by this fantastic band. Never even heard them acknowledge receipt of one of the texts or e-mails. Had plenty of that with other texts I sent. So I think it's fair enough to conclude from that that they do sometimes not listen.

There's nothing wrong with the music they do play; I really do enjoy Jimi Hendrix, to name just one. But if they can play music by an indie artist who is 36 years dead, why can't they play something by a relatively unknown indie group that is still releasing albums? Jimi Hendrix doesn't need the publicity. Alison Shaw and her Cranes DO. And they deserve better than to be ignored by the self-proclaimed "quality sounds only" station.

Anyway. Thank f*** for Phantom. I was reduced to listening to Newstalk in the last couple of years, because the so-called "music" stations were just too dire.

JC 2K3

rozeboosje wrote:

There's nothing wrong with the music they do play; I really do enjoy Jimi Hendrix, to name just one. But if they can play music by an indie artist who is 36 years dead, why can't they play something by a relatively unknown indie group that is still releasing albums? Jimi Hendrix doesn't need the publicity. Alison Shaw and her Cranes DO. And they deserve better than to be ignored by the self-proclaimed "quality sounds only" station.

That's exactly my point.

Fair enough, if the majority of people like modern, mainstream-ish indie then by all means they can play it the majority of the time, but they should really devote a bit more time to other styles of music, and not just the generic choices. Right now it's a bit like a couple of indie songs and then maybe a song from a different genre like Classic Rock or Punk. Problem is, when they play a Classic Rock track a lot of the time it's something off Zeppelin 4, Thunderstruck or equivilant big song by ACDC, Bob Dylan, Black Sabbath sometimes etc. With Punk it's usually something by The Clash or Blitzkreig Bob by the Ramones. I think Phantom should try and get a little bit more variety of music that's not modern indie rock out there.

Perhaps Phantom should operate based on "waves" of obscurity. Playing conventional poppy indie and gradually evolving and playing more far-out, obscure music before devolving again and returning to more basic indie rock. Whole process would take about 2 months, 6 "waves" a year

windowcleaner

good thread with lots of meat in it

i personally think the return of phantom is the best thing to happen on radio in 2006. there is no other station on the air in ireland which plays as much indie and alternative music as Phantom day in and day out.

sure, there are gaps (wheres the hip-hop? wheres the mad folk stuff?) and sure some presenters are not quite up to scratch but, by and large, listening to what's on 105.2 is a whole lot better than having to endure what's on 100-102, 98, 1032 and especially 104. Long live phantom!

Piste

JC 2K3 wrote:

Sure the existance of "emo" as a musical genre is even debatable.

chill, it's just a name, try telling the housands of people who'd say their favourite genre is "emo" that its existence is debatable.

JC 2K3 wrote:

Well you're on the opposite end of the scale to me in terms of reasons to dislike it. But why do you have to affirm you music taste as if you're more open minded than any of us or something? Objective argument please.

I never claimed to be more open-minded than anyone else, I just find that people on the radion poking fun at music which i like to be snobbish. How on earth can you be asking for an objetive arguemnt when EVERYONE has their own music tastes and will prefer certain genres/bands to be played than others?

rozeboosje

Piste wrote:

I just find that people on the radion poking fun at music which i like to be snobbish.

Absolutely. Some people make musical chewing gum. Others like musical chewing gum. And as long as the makers don't pretend they're making more than that, there is absolutely nothing wrong with it. And being "mainstream" or "indie" hasn't got a lot to do with it either.

It has been pointed out by a few already that Phantom are quite happy to play the likes of Franz Ferdinand, who therefore, apparently, must be "indie" or something of that nature. And yet, they're musical porridge. I quite like porridge though

Variation is the spice of life though. I gave out to Pete by text a week or two ago because he had gotten into the habit of playing this Juliette and the Licks thing every morning at about 8:15. Again, there's nothing wrong with that song; I actually quite like it. But if you can start setting your clock by it it starts getting annoying. Variation is the spice of life.

Piste

What is "musical chewing gum"?

Youv'e just reminded me that I need breakfast

Oh that awful ad's just come on the air again!

JC 2K3

Piste wrote:

chill, it's just a name, try telling the housands of people who'd say their favourite genre is "emo" that its existence is debatable.

Nah, there'd be too many suicides

Piste wrote:

I never claimed to be more open-minded than anyone else, I just find that people on the radion poking fun at music which i like to be snobbish.

Why is it a snobbish attitude because YOU like it, why not just say that poking fun at other genres is snobbish? Don't make it so personal is what I'm saying.

Piste wrote:

How on earth can you be asking for an objetive arguemnt when EVERYONE has their own music tastes and will prefer certain genres/bands to be played than others?

"My music taste is better than your music taste" = subjective.

"I think Phantom should play a wider variety of music as I think it would appeal to many people" = objective.

rozeboosje

JC 2K3 wrote:

"I think Phantom should play a wider variety of music as I think it would appeal to many people" = objective.

I would prefer to think of that as wishful thinking. Take the desire to "appeal to many people" to the extreme and I don't even need to explain what will happen: just tune into FM104 to hear for yourself.

Playing the more obscure stuff is certainly not going to please the masses, and commercially it may not even be a very good idea. That is where a decision must be made between principle and cash flow. They could, of course, jump onto the high horse and play nothing but obscure bands all day long. They would probably last another month or two before going bankrupt.

So they have to find that delicate balance between playing popular stuff often enough to keep the majority listening, and playing the odd obscure song in between to keep us on our toes. I would suggest though that they don't parcel it off to dedicated shows during the dead hours of the day only, but include it in the mainstream programming. Play two or three popular songs, then something unheard of, even during Peak Time.