PrimeTime

vandermeyde

Tonights show will have a "whistleblower" expose on some of the sharper practices that the drivers get up to in Dublin Bus....

Probably worth a watch!

shltter

yeah should be interesting

Lot of discussion as to what exactly it is

Given last nights show on Auctioneers and Money brokers we are in illustrous company

_Kaiser_

Sky+ Box programmed Will watch this one with interest

AYM

A somewhat pitiful feature to be honest. Private competitor puts up owner and disgruntled ex-DB employee to make unsubstantiatable claims that "30% of drivers are bad", and that's analysis??

The long, long, loooong graphic presentation of early departing buses smacked of serious padding of a very lightweight feature.

You have to laugh as well at RTE pontificating about the unfairness of a large existing operator getting a whack of guaranteed money for dominant services, while new operators can get licences to work in niche areas.

I'm sure TV3 and all the private radio stations were looking at that in quite a jaundiced manner.

Though it must be said, the union guys always to my mind inadvertently make the strongest case for private competition.

chilli_pepper

well said AYM

MiniD

I watched this with interest, hoping for a balanced debate. What we got was an ex-Dublin Bus empolyee revealing pointless information which served no purpose. For example, he seemed to take great pleasure in revealing how drivers refer to passenger as skulls. Fascinating.
This feature should have been tackling issues such as road space for buses or how to encourage people from cars. Instead, it came across as a simple attack at Dublin Bus. I found it amusing they used Mortons as the shining example of a private operator. This is a company who only run their buses at peak hours Monday to Friday on a busy corridor. If this is the way to go then Dublin is in serious trouble. Try get a Mortons bus to Lucan at 7pm and see how great a service they provide. This is a company who don't even provide timetables at their bus stops, but yet they were somehow qualified to partake in a discussion on Dublin Bus timekeeping?

The feature only touched on integrated ticketing which was a shame, as it is an area which needs urgent attention. Again, Mortons were praising their Luas Smart Card. However, as a passenger cannont purchase this card at a Luas machine, I fail to see how this is integrated ticketing.

I agree with the above poster. The union spokesman for Dublin Bus didn't do drivers any favours, which was a shame. Unfortunately, Dublin Bus were painted in a bad light for the whole piece which I felt was unfair. It was clear that the editor of this Prime Time piece was focused in how they wanted to highlight the negative points of Dublin Bus. It would have been a bit stronger if it questioned the other issues mentioned above and maybe even credit Dublin Bus for the amount of progress the company has made in the last few years.

I don't think tonights programme will have people jumping out of their cars in the morning to hail the next 15B.

_Kaiser_

Firstly, have to say I thought the NBRU representative did himself no favors and as AYM says, only strengthens the case for privitisation.

Secondly, regarding the ex-DB employee. I seem to remember comments here recently about the "skulls" that would support his assertion that some drivers do indeed view the travelling public as an inconvenience to their otherwise cushy number alright.

He's also correct in saying that pasengers who use the same routes daily will indeed get to know the drivers and which ones will leave early. I've seen this regularly myself and also witnessed the "convoy" situation where a following (and more lightly loaded) bus will pull in behind another at bus stops, rather than overtake and continue on his way.

Thirdly, regardless of whether you want to consider it "padding" or not (I will conceed the segment ran on a little overlong), the facts are that all those buses DID leave 2/3 minutes early for no apparent reason. Whatever about a bus being late to depart (due to traffic or whatever reason is given), there is absolutely NO excuse for a bus to depart early at (particularly) off-peak hours.

Dublin Bus themselves trying to deflect the issues raised by saying that "it happens elsewhere too" doesn't wash either. Fair enough, they're not the only company to experience these problems, but that's no excuse - just because something is the way it is doesn't make it acceptable and if other countries can find a way to deal with them, why must we ALWAYS be playing catchup - imitating rather than innovating for our own unique needs.

His assertion that these individual drivers are dealt with through their own diciplinary process... well I guess we'll just have to take his word, as there's no transparancy to the end user/complaintant (which doesn't help to inspire confidence in that process by the way).

With regards to integrated ticketing.. I think we can all agree that that's just a mess and something we're unlikely to see anytime soon because of all the competing and vested interests involved - yet another example of the typically Irish "ah sure it'll be grand" attitude that sickens me about this country.

Whilst I agree that congestion is one of the top problems facing the company, far too much time and effort is spent on backoffice politics satisfying the interests of unions and apathetic management, and catering to an outdated 70's model of same, and not enough on realistically and proactively addressing the day-to-day problems facing the user (and yes, average DB driver).

I maintain that the biggest problem with DB (and CIE as a whole) is that in reality, the customer is only considered as an afterthought. Until THIS changes, things can (and probably will) only get worse.

shltter

What absolute utter crap

Apart from the laughable fact of RTE raising the issue of the subvention in light of the TV license and the commercial advertising on all their stations.

They monitored some drivers leaving early out of how many. They quickly skipped by that the 25s left on time how many other routes did they monitor how many nights.
The 10s on a particular night all the buses seemed to leave 2 minutes early if that is the case then how did any of the drivers benefit from this as the gap would be the same between them all anyway.
They set their clocks but did they make any effort to ascertain what time the ticket machines on the buses they claim left early were showing.
Personally I dont wear a watch i go by the time it says on the ticket machine unless I know that it is out (ie if I hear the one OClock news and the ticket machine says 12:58 or 13:02.


It was very poor journalism how they managed to drag it out into such a long segment is incredible.

They mentioned the London model but did no analysis of the cost of implementing such a model in Dublin or how it was a complete failure till Ken Livingston and the introduction of congestion charging helped it out.

They mentioned the real time bus information but made no mention of the reason for the delay in rolling it out in Dublin or the fact that if the funding had not have been pulled for this the problem of some drivers going sharp would not exist.

They Quoted the RPA in blaming DB for the delay in introducing integrated ticketing despite the fact that the RPA itself was held responsible for this by the comptroller auditor general.

Primetime are really scraping the bottom of the barrel for stories if the fact that some drivers in DB refer to passengers as Skulls is worthy of a special segment
Perhaps we can look forward to a item on some medical staff using the term wrinkly to refer to geriatric patients or some other shocker.


It was the most biased one sided piece of crap since the last biased one sided piece of crap I have seen on Primetime.

Oh I almost forgot the bit about the Bus leaving 2 minutes early and then being 4 minutes up and then 8 minutes up what a complete load of ****e
why did they not follow a bus and show us this happening. Oh I know because that would involve actually doing some research to support your claims and the journos in RTE dont need that because they have the have the license fee Largese to support them.

aliveandkicking

Shocking journalism from RTE in what turned out to be a thinly veiled hatchet job on Dublin Bus. I really would have expected more from a programme like Prime Time.

As Shltter pointed out, RTE were going from the talking clock but the drivers were more than likely working off the time displayed on the ticket machine which could well have been set 2 or 3 minutes early hence the drivers felt they were actually leaving on time.

As for taking the word of a (more than likely disgruntled) former employee as gospel, well if thats how low RTE have to go then I'm shocked.

There was a couple of points I agree with, some "senior" drivers who couldn't care less about passenger who are "surly individuals who really shouldn't be driving a public bus" who coast behind another bus without trying to overtake. Yes we all know these kind of drivers exist, small in number but they do exist I'm sure most regular bus users have experienced these kind of drivers in our lifetime (perhaps even Shltter might agree they exist). Don't believe it's as high as 30% as Prime Time alledged but still they give every other good driver a bad name.

The NBRU rep didn't come accross very well and did his side no favours but perhaps RTE through editing deliberately painted him in a bad light. SIPTU fella wasn't much better either though he did come accross as more in touch with the public.

2funki4wheelz

Very odd segment indeed.
Customer experience knows that these practises occur - early buses, rude bus drivers etc so surely it should have been easy enough for RTE to build a stronger case - even grabbing a pile of journo students and getting them to ride buses around for a week, logging everything.

I felt the use of the speaking clock a bit unscientific, I've often seen ticket machines display different times in line with the radio news as mentioned above. Also, proper statistics would have more effective, e.g. 25% of buses early from 1st -7th Dec or something like that.

And surely they could have found more than one ex-employee to flesh out the arguments? (And don't whistleblowers usually still work in the company?)

Poorly put together piece that I'm sure is very frustrating for passengers who have to put up with such practices, as it made a very wobbly case.

AlekSmart

A thoroughly unbalanced piece of poor journalism.
The programme certainly did not approach the old 7 Days Moneylending documentary of the 1970`s which benchmarked Public Service Braodcasting standards in relation to Current Affairs.

In the absence of a unified and universally regarded standard for Time recording the 2-3 minute discrepencies as detailed by Prime Time remain unproven and possibly erroneous.

To ensure the level of compliance which Prime Time seek requires all timepieces to be set to the same time.

Whilst BAC garages do NOT currently have a standard time display it is something that the company should be actively pursuing.
BAC has a company wide Intranet system which could easily synchronize with any of the major Atomic Time Servers and display this time setting on a single Digital Clock IN EACH DEPOT thus ensuring a company wide time-standard.

Currently any driver requesting a time-check will simply get the time shown on the Controllers watch,hardly the quantifiable standard which was supplied by the Ballast Office clock in the Dublin United Tramway Company days.

Another quite important point was not alluded to in the Timekeeping piece.
The old BAC Wayfarer 2 Ticket Machine had an inexplixable quirk which almost universally saw it programmed to run 2 MINUTES SLOW.
This led to a virtually company wide practice of Drivers adjusting their departure times to compensate for that setting.

The new TGX is capable of displaying accurate centrally set Time but as yet there is no company wide Standard Time display.

The largest deficiency however in the standard of the Prime Time programme was its reliance upon Paul Morton and his employee Graham Spee to act as Witnesses for the PT Prosecution.

Paul Mortons long standing antipathy for Dublin Bus and CIE in general is no secret within the industry.
His employee Graham Spee,who it would appear took the Canteen Talk to which he was exposed during his 2.5 years in DB to heart really should have been required to explain his 30% unsuitability rating in greater and perhaps more scientific detail.

Given that Graham Speed operated from only a small section of the DB network and consequently would have had no opportunity to study accurately the physychological make-up of almost 3,000 DB drivers I find it unacceptable that Prime Time failed to qualify his observations based upon this.

It is perhaps salutory to note that Graham Spee did indeed benefit greatly from the Bus Driver training he recieved from DB.
The quality of that training and the ensuing 2.5 years experience gained with DB no doubt was of great benefit to Graham when seeking employment with Mr Morton who quite obviously prides himself on the high standards of his Drivers.

To take colloqualisms such as "Skull" and attempt to present it as some form of indicator of regard or otherwise is very limp stuff indeed.
The term itself is in wide useage across the passenger carriage world as essentially refers to the view a conductor or ticket-checker wouild have of a full saloon/carriage from the rear....row after row of seated Skulls all requiring to be headcounted before departure..

The colloqualism for Inspector for example is a "Cap" which is self explanatory to Prime Time I hope.

However I would also have to express some level of disappointment at the spokespersons for both DB and the Unions which I felt were largely insipid and failed to take the offensive against what was a thinly veiled promo for Mortons Circle Line Bus company in it`s now long running battle with DB over operations along the Lucan Road corridor.

Paul Mortons European Court challenge to the State`s Public Transport subvention methods is I understand still in train (!) and as such will in time be adjudicated upon.

Paul Morton has I would hope been thoroughly briefed by his legal team and would of course have taken note of the first rule of thumb when mounting legal challenges to anything.........."Always be prepared to lose BEFORE you begin any legal proceedings"

Interestingly for RTE the Morton vs Dublin Bus situation has remarkable similarities for the broadcaster as it parallels the situation whereby RTE retains Both Licence Fee PLUS Advertising Revenue on the basis of being statutorily required to operate a public service quotient !

All in all a squib of the dampest proportions.....??

bugler

I was just glad that the inadequate aspects of Dublin Bus got some coverage. I've used Dublin Bus regularly over the past 2.5 years, and I'm well acquainted with the unpredictable nature of the service.

I used to live in Ongar too, which had the 36 minute wait for the bus into Blanchardstown / City Centre. It must be one of the worst routes in Dublin, but for reasons other than the drivers. It takes the most roundabout route to Blanch S.C (or used to, I think the stops at the S.C have changed). I understand people at the housing estates in serves need a service, but a more direct and efficient alternative should be there for those in Clonsilla / Ongar.

I saw the "leaving sharp" phenomenon to good effect when trying to get the 39 to Clonsilla train station. Depending on the time of day, the bus leaving early could be a worse disaster than it going late, as the next service just wouldn't make the train on time.

To the above posters who say the repeated early departures from the bus stops could be due to the on-bus clocks: Are all the buses clocks synchronised to the one time? Do you not think it's strange that all these buses were regularly 2/3 minutes ahead of schedule?

Where I live now we have great fun on the buses too. They cancelled a 7.50 service because "too many buses are getting caught at the rail crossing" (according to a driver) despite the fact that the 7.50 was the one bus that didn'tget caught at the crossing. The timetable never changed of course, presumably they assume people can work it out for themselves if they turn up for a bus that doesn't show 3 or 4 mornings in a row.

Now it seems the 7.50 is back on, as soon as it was taken away. Judging by the amount of people who are sometimes already at the stop when I get there for this bus the previous bus (7.40) isn't too reliable either.

With regard to timing, the onus should be on the drivers and Dublin Bus as a whole to ensure the time source they use is accurate, just as the passengers should ensure the time source they use is accurate.

So if the bus clocks WERE fast by 2/3 minutes on all those buses. What do want, a round of applause because you're not bothered to set the time correctly? Or check that it is correct now and again? Remember, you're providing a public service here. You're not doing the passengers a favour by allowing them on your vehicle.

MiniD

Bugler, while the problems at Ongar exist, Dublin Bus are aware of the issues out there, but to be fair it is not totally their fault. If you look at the history of the 39 route you will perhaps understand how these problems come to be. This route launched in 1993 with promises of a great new fast and frequent service. Then came along the Celtic Tiger and the whole of Dublin 15 exploded with new apartments, housing estates and a massive shopping, leisure and retail complex. Due to these changes, Dublin Bus were under pressure to serve these new developments. The 39 route was re-routed through the new shopping centre with no bus priority, just a shiny new shelter. The route was then further re-routed before being extended to the new development at Ongar. Despite the population increase in this area, there was no funding given to Dublin Bus and the 39 route for extra vehicles. There was also very little help from the council to provide better bus lanes.
You're right there should be a more direct route to Ongar. But have you contacted the department of transport to question why there is a lack of buses for this area, despite the planning permission being granted to build in these areas?

Red Alert

i believe the new TGX machines set their clocks when they download at night, the older machines were set by the driver modules so there might have been some problems there.

vandermeyde

Red Alert wrote:

i believe the new TGX machines set their clocks when they download at night, the older machines were set by the driver modules so there might have been some problems there.

this is correct, they automatically update as they are driven into the depot. Given that most of the buses mentioned in the program were going 2 minutes "sharp" according to the talking clock, it would be interesting to check if the TGX clock is 2 minutes ahead of the talking clock.

There certainly seemed to be a uniformity in the discrepancies between the "talking clock" departure time and the actual departure time.

Of course, thats not to deny that buses DO go sharp

if anyone feels like doing it, they could check the time on their ticket viz-a-viz the talking clock

shltter

bugler wrote:

With regard to timing, the onus should be on the drivers and Dublin Bus as a whole to ensure the time source they use is accurate, just as the passengers should ensure the time source they use is accurate.



How

Remembering that Drivers have no input in to the time the machine says you are not seriously suggesting that drivers should ring the talking clock before every journey are you.








So if the bus clocks WERE fast by 2/3 minutes on all those buses. What do want, a round of applause because you're not bothered to set the time correctly? Or check that it is correct now and again? Remember, you're providing a public service here. You're not doing the passengers a favour by allowing them on your vehicle.

No it was simply an observation that RTE had been lazy and sloppy in their reporting all they had to do was purchase a ticket to see if the time they were using was the same as the time on the ticket machine on the bus.

And again drivers do not set the time on the ticket machine that is done by Dublin Bus themselves and how do you suggest they check the time.


Another aspect that I noticed about this was that they followed the buses around but nowhere did they show a passenger that had missed a bus because of this. The story would have had a much stronger impact if they had shown passengers that had been discommoded.

The thing i would have liked to have seen is the exact time because there is a big difference say between 19:13:00 and 19:13:59 they are both 19:13 but one is 120 seconds early the other is 61 if we are looking for precision then RTE should be more precise in their information.

Lastly what are the internationally accepted benchmarks that regulators use to determine whether a bus is "on time" does it have to depart during the 60 seconds that it is on the timetable in order for it to be counted as on time.
Since TFL was mentioned it would be interesting to know what TFL count as being on time


Also as a balance to the arguement about the "London model" here are some articles I found in about 2 minutes

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4153/is_20051010/ai_n15668834

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4153/is_20051011/ai_n15667663

shltter

I did a bit of research it took me about 5 minutes but this is fascinating and shows how absolutely slack RTE are

They mentioned the London Model

Here is the Benchmark that Transport for London use to measure whether the private companies they have given contracts to are meeting the standard

"Departing on time is the chance of a bus running between 2 minutes EARLY and up to 5 minutes LATE in relation to the advertised time."


http://www.tfl.gov.uk/buses/about/performance/borough-report.asp

here is the definitive proof that primetime did a hatchet job on DB on behalf of Mortons
The model that RTE held up would actually have counted all of those departures as ON TIME

TFL does not even monitor departure times on routes with more than 4 departures in an hour it measures the gap between services.

aliveandkicking

Ok RTE did a hatchet job nevertheless despite the biased report it did contain elements of truth. Issues shltter you prefer not to discuss, rather you prefer to focus on RTE bad reporting of the "going sharp" issue.

Shltter can I ask you a couple of questions?

1. Is "going sharp" widely practiced within DB or is it only a small number of drivers or does it not happen at all?

2. Do you think there are a some DB drivers who lack respect for customers and have a surly attitude?

shltter

aliveandkicking wrote:

There was a couple of points I agree with, some "senior" drivers who couldn't care less about passenger who are "surly individuals who really shouldn't be driving a public bus" who coast behind another bus without trying to overtake. Yes we all know these kind of drivers exist, small in number but they do exist I'm sure most regular bus users have experienced these kind of drivers in our lifetime (perhaps even Shltter might agree they exist). Don't believe it's as high as 30% as Prime Time alledged but still they give every other good driver a bad name.

.

Of course I agree they exist but as you say they are no where near 30% of the work force nor are they confined to Senior drivers.

It was a disgraceful piece of journalism as I have shown with the links to the TFL benchmarks. And the article from the london evening standard shows that complaints against drivers dont go away just because you hand it over to a private company.

I wonder did it occur to anyone in RTE to monitor the departure times of Mortons buses in relation to the speaking clock. I doubt it as they failed to mention that all the Mortons buses were safely parked up in the depot while RTE were out monitoring Dublin Bus.

shltter

aliveandkicking wrote:

Ok RTE did a hatchet job nevertheless despite the biased report it did contain elements of truth. Issues shltter you prefer not to discuss, rather you prefer to focus on RTE bad reporting of the "going sharp" issue.

Shltter can I ask you a couple of questions?

1. Is "going sharp" widely practiced within DB or is it only a small number of drivers or does it not happen at all?

No it is not widely practised does it happen yes of course it does could it be stopped yes
A simple addition to the planned GPS could highlight to the controller when a bus moved away from a terminus ahead of time. End of story.
But the instances that RTE highlighted would show as on time under the TFL rules.
BTW anyone caught going sharp is disciplined upto and including dismissal

aliveandkicking wrote:

2. Do you think there are a some DB drivers who lack respect for customers and have a surly attitude?

Yes of course there are just as there are bank clerks and check out operators
and bar staff and doctors and any other occupation you care to mention.
Should they be driving buses NO
Are there 1000 of them NO
In my garage I would say there is probably at the moment 4 or 5 drivers that IMO would be better off for themselves and their passengers if they found a job that did not interact with the general public. ( Of course people can have off days I am not counting that )

Victor

Does the talking clock have the right time? I've not checked.

I have found times on Radio 1 to be very consistant - to the second from the One O'Clock News from one day to the next, as are other news bulletins (note its the second after the last pip). I wonder why they didn't use this time?

While the Department of Justice is responsible for keeping official time, where is this clock?

Ironicly, Ireland is a country where the radio stations don't work on a set time, e.g. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/coventry_warwickshire/4756061.stm

aliveandkicking

shltter wrote:

No it is not widely practised does it happen yes of course it does could it be stopped yes
A simple addition to the planned GPS could highlight to the controller when a bus moved away from a terminus ahead of time. End of story.
But the instances that RTE highlighted would show as on time under the TFL rules.
BTW anyone caught going sharp is disciplined upto and including dismissal




Yes of course there are just as there are bank clerks and check out operators
and bar staff and doctors and any other occupation you care to mention.
Should they be driving buses NO
Are there 1000 of them NO
In my garage I would say there is probably at the moment 4 or 5 drivers that IMO would be better off for themselves and their passengers if they found a job that did not interact with the general public. ( Of course people can have off days I am not counting that )

Fair enough, thanks for the insight.

Sizzler

To be fair, is anybody really surprised that bus drivers nick off a few mins early? This was a feature on Dublin Bus but could have been any profession for any employer in Ireland. Tell me a job where people dont seek out an opportunity to make their life a bit easier or try and finish a few mins earlier

Its unfortunate for us that its a public service and it could inconvenience us one of the days but hey nearly all workers take shortcuts so lets get real !

Red Alert

Having got a rundown of the programme from someone who saw it, i think it was only a hatchet job at dublin bus.

dowlingm

GPS is the way to go. It's not merely a case of tracking drivers not doing their jobs but integral to advanced services like "next bus displays" and stop announcements for the visually impaired. The GPS module has to keep accurate time to sync with the satellites so it wouldn't matter how long it was since the bus was in a depot or manually changed.

The flip side though is that the GPS data should be used fairly rather than to discipline people - to track congestion and amend timetables that are not achievable without intervention by DCC traffic management. Who trusts CIE HR not to just use it as a stick though?

Victor

dowlingm wrote:

The flip side though is that the GPS data should be used fairly rather than to discipline people

If it is to be operated for discipline, it should be used at an arms length from HR. Anyone can make an mistake, e.g. using the weekday departure time instead of the Satuday departure time. However, systematic non-adhereance and abuse would need to be tackled.

It also has safety advantages if a driver is attacked or the vehicle is stolen. The company know exactly where the vehicle is. If a bus is stopped for more than X minutes the controller can make a call to see what is happening, if the driver doesn't reply, a human reponse can be made and the Garda called if necessary.

One of the mining companies had problems when they installed GPS tracking in their trucks, the employees claimed they were "being tracked". Of course there didn't seem to be any legitimate reason not to be tracked.

spareman

The reason why Dublin bus havent got GPS has nothing to do with staff, nor is it anything to do with management, in fact 99% of driver's would love to see it in operation Im sure, the problem is the funding, which in 2002 was rejected by the government, see the government have this attitude that everything should be paid for by some buisness man, so he can get richer on our backs, sooner the better we all realize this and stop this race to the bottom.

shltter

Sizzler wrote:

To be fair, is anybody really surprised that bus drivers nick off a few mins early? This was a feature on Dublin Bus but could have been any profession for any employer in Ireland. Tell me a job where people dont seek out an opportunity to make their life a bit easier or try and finish a few mins earlier

Its unfortunate for us that its a public service and it could inconvenience us one of the days but hey nearly all workers take shortcuts so lets get real !

To be fair Primetime did not prove any driver did anything wrong
They claimed some buses left 2 minutes early but that was based purely off the time that primetime was using they made no attempt to ascertain what time the ticket machine was showing.
Secondly they did not produce one person who had missed one of these buses that they claimed had left early.
Thirdly the route that they concentrated on mostly 10 they failed to mention that if all the drivers are leaving 2 minutes early then none of them would be benefiting from anything as the gap would be the same.
Lastly they never mentioned that even if they were correct which they can not possibly prove under the model that they or their invited guest from the ESRI was proposing ie the London model a bus leaving 2 minutes early is counted as being on time.
Or that the london Authorities do not even check departure times on routes with more than 4 departures in an hour they count the gap between departures.

shltter

Victor wrote:

If it is to be operated for discipline, it should be used at an arms length from HR. Anyone can make an mistake, e.g. using the weekday departure time instead of the Satuday departure time. However, systematic non-adhereance and abuse would need to be tackled.

It also has safety advantages if a driver is attacked or the vehicle is stolen. The company know exactly where the vehicle is. If a bus is stopped for more than X minutes the controller can make a call to see what is happening, if the driver doesn't reply, a human reponse can be made and the Garda called if necessary.

One of the mining companies had problems when they installed GPS tracking in their trucks, the employees claimed they were "being tracked". Of course there didn't seem to be any legitimate reason not to be tracked.

GPS can be used without having to be directly used for example if the GPS system showed someone leaving early on a regular basis even if the GPS information could not be used directly it is only a matter of sending out an inspector to actually catch the individual leaving early. Any disciplinary action would not be relying on the GPS information.

BTW Dublin Bus drivers are probably among the most monitored workers in the country as it is anyway.
The ticket machine gives huge information on departure times journey times loading etc.
Then there is the onboard cameras that are taping every move a driver makes and the outside conditions and the passengers.
Then there is the City Traffic cameras that DB have access to that can tell them where you are nevermind GPS.
Drivers have no problem with GPS there is nothing that GPS can show them that they cant get from one of the other sources anyway if they want to need to.
The thing to remember is that apart from the passengers that miss the bus the driver behind is the one that suffers when someone takes it upon themselves to leave early.The next driver is carrying his/her own passengers and the guy in fronts passengers and probably getting it in the neck from those who have been waiting for the bus in front.

Tails142

I fail to see how this 'leaving sharp' phenomenon is even such a big deal.

I mean what are we saying here... a bus leaves early and gets to its final destination quicker because it doesnt have to pull over at stops... I would say very few people actually bother to look at timetables especially for frequent routes where there are 3 or 4 buses an hour - (which is most busy routes in dublin except for sundays).

On a less busy route, people are going to be looking at the timetables, but most people are gonna be at the stop with at least 5 minutes to spare.

RTE claim that a bus leaving 2 minutes early will then be 4 minutes early at the third stop becuase it didnt stop at the second. 8 minutes early at the fifth stop and so on. Now for that to happen, it would mean that there was 'nobody' at these stops. Nobody that just went to the stop without looking at the timetable, nobody that had the common sense to be at the stop early. Most timetables only show the time to leave the terminus, so the time the bus will reach these stops is pure conjecture from the reader, its up to whoever reads the timetable to take into account whether the bus will stop at each stop or not and take that into account when judging the time they need to be at their stop for. Taking into account traffic, time being held up at lights, everyone having different times on their watches, this guess is going to be several minutes off at best.

From a civil engineers perspective, this whole 'leaving sharp' conspiracy that RTE has put forth is ill conceived at best. What poor journalism.

Ste.phen

Tails142 wrote:

I fail to see how this 'leaving sharp' phenomenon is even such a big deal.

Spoken like someone who has never missed the last bus because it left 5 mins early. When the walk time from starting point - bus stop is less than 1 minute, I tend to not leave much extra time.