[Article] Greens call for Cork light-rail system

dmeehan

Greens call for Cork light-rail system

The Green Party has unveiled a series of proposals aimed at improving the train and bus network in Cork.

The Green Party proposals include plans for a light rail system connecting Ballincollig to Mahon through Cork city centre. A second line from Bishopstown incorporating the CIT and University Hospital would connect with this line.

The party is also recommending a second phase which would see a light rail system being extended to Passage West; light rail for the northside of Cork city; and the development of a harbour water bus service similar to Dublin's water-based taxi service along the River Liffey.

Speaking in Cork this afternoon, party leader Trevor Sargent was critical of the Government's plans for transport in the city, saying current proposals are "practically non-existent".

Mr Sargent said: "Transport 21 has left Cork pretty well out of the picture with regards to future high budget transport development programmes. Much of what is proposed for Cork under Transport 21 was either already under way or has been postponed indefinitely."

He added that projects such as the North Ring Route and the "badly needed" bypass for Macroom have been delayed "indefinitely as they are not Transport 21 priorities.

"Cork does not deserve this," he said.

Dan Boyle, TD for Cork South Central, also called for a doubling of bus services in the greater Cork area.

from ireland.com Breaking News (http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/breaking/2006/1211/breaking58.htm)

probe

http://www.greenparty.ie/en/news/latest_news/green_party_proposes_tram_service_for_cork

Green Party proposes tram service for Cork

Issued: 11 December 2006

The Green Party today unveiled plans to bring a light rail system to the city of Cork. Green Party Leader Trevor Sargent TD, who was in Cork to launch proposals to upgrade Cork’s entire public transport service, said the current Government’s transport proposals for the city are practically non-existent.

Deputy Sargent said: “Transport 21 has left Cork pretty well out of the picture with regards to future high budget transport development programmes. Much of what is proposed for Cork under Transport 21 was either already underway or has been postponed indefinitely. Other projects such as the North Ring Route around the city and the badly needed bypass for Macroom have been delayed indefinitely as they are not Transport 21 priorities. Cork does not deserve this.”

Green Party Cork South-Central TD Dan Boyle said: “The Green Party proposes the development of a light rail system that would see a line connecting Ballincollig to Mahon via Cork City Centre. A spur line from Bishopstown incorporating the CIT and CorkUniversityHospital would join with this line. A second phase could see a light rail system being extended to Passage West and development of light rail for the Northside of Cork City. We have already seen the huge success of the Luas in Dublin and we believe Cork should see the next roll-out of this excellent public transport system.

Green Party Cork North-Central candidate Cllr Chris O’Leary proposed a CorkHarbour water bus service, similar to those in other European cities such as Amsterdam and Paris. The City Council are already investigating the feasibility of such a service. Cllr O’Leary said: “Cork’s version of the waterbus could see it running from the lower harbour to the City's main street and back again, servicing Ringaskiddy, Rochestown, Cobh and Mahon to name but a few. The environmentally friendly public transport system will also act to facilitate tourism in the area as well as providing a sustainable, workable and dedicated service in Cork.

Green Party candidate for Cork East Sarah Iremonger said that the re-opening of the Cork/Midleton railway should only be the beginning of additional services in East Cork and beyond. “Local train links should not only go to Midleton but to Youghal and eventually onto Waterford. The existing rail link to Cobh should be upgraded with more trains running, more stops added, and train stations developed on the line with proper car parking facilities.”

Closing the Press Conference Dan Boyle TD stressed the Green Party’s commitment to doubling bus services in the Greater Cork area. “The Government’s recent provision of funding for 30 new buses for city bus services included 19 buses provided solely for replacement purposes. We need the same number of new buses again to improve the capacity of the service,” he concluded.

Chris_533976

Water taxi wont happen, its been discussed and refused before due to insurance reasons and river speed limits.

Silly plan, Ballincollig to Mahon through the centre is stupid as it doesnt include the TRAIN STATION. INTEGRATION PEOPLE!!!!!!!

Better idea - Ballincollig to the train station, taking in CIT, UCC and the city centre.

Another line then from Blackpool to the airport. Much better.

IMO this is more election rhetoric.

probe

Chris_533976 wrote:

Water taxi wont happen, its been discussed and refused before due to insurance reasons and river speed limits.

Silly plan, Ballincollig to Mahon through the centre is stupid as it doesnt include the TRAIN STATION. INTEGRATION PEOPLE!!!!!!!

Better idea - Ballincollig to the train station, taking in CIT, UCC and the city centre.

Another line then from Blackpool to the airport. Much better.

I'd have thought that a Ballincollig to Mahon line could go via the bus / railway stations, and serve the enlarged docklands area. There is a new bridge planned in the docklands development package which could be used for the tram en route back south and onwards in the direction of Mahon or Douglas. The tram doesn't have to go into the station to integrate - it can go along the quays on the southern perimeter. See map attached (the red line is a boundary - not a proposed tram route!)

.probe

bk

As a Corkonian living in Dublin, I can safely say this is a load of BS.

Cork doesn't need a very expensive light rail system. Cork just isn't that big. The road system around Cork is actually very good, there has been a lot of investment over the last few years and more to come in T21. It is generally quick and easy to drive around cork, with the traffic being a slight inconvenience compared to the horror it is in Dublin.

CIE's plans to make use of existing lines for frequent commuter services is a very good use of existing resources. Spending a fortune on expensive new tram lines isn't.

Instead the money should be put into investing and expanding Bus Eireanns awful local bus service that is far, far behind Dublin!!! More buses on more routes and with greater frequency using Corks good roads would do far more to improve Corks transport needs then any tram would.

As you say, this is just election bs. However I think the people of Cork actually know better about what the city needs then the Green party and they won't fall for it.

Raskolnikov

A light rail system is all well and good but it really is a pipe dream considering that we can't even get bus transportation right. Has anyone noticed the explosion in travel by bus in the last few years in Cork? What we need in Cork is for refitting of existing buses (Dublin Bus have relatively clean buses) and new double decker to meet demand. As it is, the majority of passengers are school children, students, foreigners and the elderly. It's a catch 22 system though, an improved, cleaner bus service will stimulate more demand for professionals which will in turn sustain the increased service. Another thing that can be done is great provision of bus lanes.

Slice

What? A Luas for Cork?? It's not that bad down there - the investment should be saved for improving a far more chronic situation in Dublin...

jank

Yea All election rethoric but a few ideas might get the ball rolling.

Bus services have to be improved. A few night links might not go astray to places like bishopstown, douglas, ballincollig.
A light rail hmmm, i dont know. I think somesort of dart/light rail from bandon, carrigaline and passage might be a better option in the long run.

I agree that the northern by pass needs to be speeded up and those rounabouts on the link road need doing asap. I also agree that transport 21 should be renamed dublin 21 as very little is given to other counties

bk

Slice wrote:

What? A Luas for Cork?? It's not that bad down there - the investment should be saved for improving a far more chronic situation in Dublin...

Or invested in the Cork bus service which is chronically bad. Even one tenth of what the luas cost (therefore 70 million) would vastly improve the Cork bus service and probably bring it up to the same level as Dublin Bus.

Chris_533976

Corks solution needs to be done like this -

Upgrade of Bandon & Sarsfield Roundabouts.
Build North Ring Road

While that is being done, buy Double Decker buses, build more park and rides (midleton and dunkettle are being planned) and overhaul the rest of the bus services and put in more bus lanes.

Tow any idiot who parks in a bus lane.

Unfortunatly due to the 'interurban only' nature of T21, the road projects probobly wont be started for ages yet

Victor

And where will all these bus lanes go? Most Cork roads don't have enough space for 3-4 lanes.

jank wrote:

A light rail hmmm, i dont know. I think somesort of dart/light rail from bandon, carrigaline and passage might be a better option in the long run.

So how many hundred million would it take to get to Bandon?

I also agree that transport 21 should be renamed dublin 21 as very little is given to other counties

95% of the roads funding for T21 is outside Dublin.

bk

Victor wrote:

And where will all these bus lanes go? Most Cork roads don'n have enough space for 3-4 lanes.

I agree, there isn't enough room for many bus lanes in Cork. However there are Green routes, basically on some routes the buses have a transponder that automatically change traffic lights to green as the bus approaches.

Everything else Chris_533976 said however is correct.

netwhizkid

Macroom should be by passed and continue the upgraded road from Killarney around BallyVourney and bypass it. Cork needs to have the North Rig road built and hang anyone who even suggests tolling, this is the Rebel County after all.

All the roundabouts should be removed off the south-ring and not incorporate them into the north ring. That bloody roundabout the other side of thew Jakc Lynch tunnel is a disgrace as the Kinsale road one.

Chris_533976

Macroom bypass is on the cards

Victor

On topic please.

dowlingm

netwhizkid - if you are familiar with the terrain west of Macroom you know that's harder than it sounds. I remember seeing maps for route selection some time ago so presumably it is moving through the system.

As for Cork LRT - one thing I've been worried about is how to get the trams through Cork's narrow city centre, however in Angers they used a 300m section of single track line where double track couldn't happen which gives me some hope... that if the French invaded Ireland we might see some trams!

jank

So how many hundred million would it take to get to Bandon?

You tell me Sherlock, Im just giving my opinion not an enviromental review.

“When we judge or criticize another person, it says nothing about that person; it merely says something about our own need to be critical.”

Victor

jank wrote:

“When we judge or criticize another person, it says nothing about that person; it merely says something about our own need to be critical.”

True, but I still have a point.

Maskhadov

yes of course cork needs a few tram lines. But, LUAS was way to expensive. I think a cheaper model can be drawn up.

dowlingm

Bandon does have an old railway alignment from way back when - I wonder what the structural state of the old viaduct is though! Even if you could reuse the alignment I'm not sure if you'd use Citadis trams, or at least you'd use Regio-Citadis with dual diesel/electric power I'd have thought? Certainly commonality with Dublin LUAS could go out the window, and possibly lead to selection of another tram manufacturer. If Regio-Citadis was selected it might make more sense if reopening Passage West too - electric within city limits and diesel in open country.

bk

I'll say it again, Cork doesn't need a light rail system, it would be a complete waste of time and money.

Instead investing just a fraction of the cost of a light rail system in the bus service to bring it up to the quality of at least Dublin bus!! would be money far better spent and would have a far better impact.

Cork actually has a pretty good road infrastructure with fairly manageable congestion levels, so what we need is a far more frequent and high capacity bus service to make use of that infrastructure.

We need:
- Control of the Cork bus service removed from Bus Eireann and put under a new company controlled and directed by Cork City and County Council.
- More buses (and staff, drivers, engineers etc.) to allow for far more frequent services (every 10 minutes), new bus routes and extra capacity at peak times.

Once we have a well run and efficient high capacity bus service in Cork, we can then re-evaluate if Cork needs light rail or not. Personally I don't think it does, but there is no point in looking at it until we have fixed the bus service as a first step.

markpb

bk wrote:

Control of the Cork bus service removed from Bus Eireann and put under a new company controlled and directed by Cork City and County Council.

*Zing*

I think you've hit the nail on the head there. One of the biggest problems with Dublin Bus is that every stupid little decision has to be taken by Martin Cullen or his crownies in the DoT, people who don't seem to have any interest in making public transport work.

Another problem is that DCC and FCC seem to fight with DB all the time, not giving priority where it's needed, building low quality bus lanes, etc. If they had control over the bus company, there's a chance that might go away.

If a proper Cork bus company could be set up the way you said, there's a chance it could be run well. On the other hand, there's a lot to be said for building (or planning for) a light rail network at the same time so it can be grown over the years instead of waiting till its too late and starting then, ala the Luas in Dublin. I know public transport should be subject to a CBA like every other public project but I do think there's a case for building it over-capacity and ahead of time so cities can grow properly.

dowlingm

In theory I agree but "local control" of Cork Airport turned out to be a bit of a sham...