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PPP 500 Game - Unusual Situation

  • 11-12-2006 1:07pm
    #1
    PiperT
    Closed Accounts Posts: 306 ✭✭


    Hi All

    Finished 6th in this and went on the beer yesterday and now whilst nursing a mega hangover I've been thinking more and more about a situation that occurred when we're down to the last two tables. I am interested in what other people think should have happened.....

    The table has been pretty aggressive with a lot of good play. Player X has been raising a lot of hands pre-flop and player Y is a very good player.

    The action is folded to Player X (just right of the dealer) and he makes it c.5XBB to go. Player Y (just left of the dealer) thinks for a minute or two and pushes all-in. There's a bit of speech play going on and player X asks for a count. The dealer says its 86,000 more to call. Player X dwells on it for an age and calmly moves his cards over the line towards the muck.

    Somebody observed that the dealer has miscounted and it was actually only 56,000 more to call. The dealer apologises and Player Y says to Player X "you should take your cards back if you want to call for 56,000". I didn't think he was serious.

    Player X takes his cards back (from the muck as far as I'm concerned) and decides to call. I don't know if the cards actually touched the muck but they were clearly over the line and the dealer had taken them in.

    He shows 77 and Player Y had ATs. The PP held up and Player X wins a massive pot and Player Y exits the tourney.

    I am still in disbelief that this happened and I'm sure Player Y was pretty pi$$ed off afterwards.

    As it happens Player X was massive chip leader when I went out in 6th so I'm not sure if he went on to win it as I don't know his name.

    Any views on this folks ?


Comments

  • #2
    5starpool
    Subscribers Posts: 32,859 ✭✭✭✭5starpool


    This is why people should be able to count chips themselves along with the dealer, rather than blind trust. I trust only a few dealers to get it spot on everytime, but even then I count along with them.

    As for the ruling, I dunno. I think the dealer should have mucked the cards as soon as he had them in his cards, I don't think crossing the line is an indication of dead personally, but I'm sure others will disagree. In this spot, a ruling should have been asked for from the floor, and I'm amazed it wasn't. Serves player Y right too for saying 'ah sure you can call for that' or the like. Keep schtum ffs.

    My personal opinion is that the hand was dead, but I won't cry if this isn't correct as I am not sure tbh.


  • #3
    LuckyLloyd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,434 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    This post has been deleted.


  • #4
    imalegend
    Closed Accounts Posts: 269 ✭✭imalegend


    i pitched this "over the line" question to a top tournament director and as far as he was concerned the cards are live till the dealer has touched them or they touch any other cards .i.e. the board cards for example...over the line is not dead and this is the ruling they use in the SE as far as i am aware...but it seems to differ in different casinos...from my view the line is just used for bets and not cards...they should have a charter or something that indictaes clearly before every tournament what happens in these grey areas...even go as far as saying once cards cross the line they are dead or if they want to use the cards touch the muck clearly say it before play commences....

    if i was in the position with the ace 10 i would have made a comotion aswell as his intention was to muck his cards...even when ou get a ruling there is about 9 voices going at the floor manager as everyone has a different view...

    in this situation i would like to see the floor manager listen to both players point of view then the dealers point...ask for the dealers opinion on what to do then make his decision rather then just asking for a dealers point of view as sometimes they get it wrong...


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