Hand for the Bingo afficienados

MrPillowTalk

In the Jackpot late Saturday night playing the omaha 1 - 1 - 5 game this hand bothered me a bit afterwards, Im still learning omaha so there were probably glaring errors made in my play.

Im in the game for a grand and Im up to €2250 (winning an €800 pot with 10 high at showdown allong the way lol) when this hand occurs. 4 of us take a flop for 15 each, I have Js3d4c4s and we take a flop of 4h 5h Jc.

Two checks to me and I check it on the Flipper who covers me by a couple of ton, he pots it for 60 and its folded round to me I repot to 300 and Flipper puts in a stack of blacks so now we are playing for stacks. At this point its obvious enough that he either has a huge draw a wrap with hearts or else he is playing middle set which will be a horrible spot for me, we get it in and when the dust settles Flipper makes the nut straight.

However this is my question on the flop should I be looking to get my stack in here or is conventional wisdom once Ive identified him as drawing to see a blank turn and then ship it? I was thinking what my optimal line on the flop would have been and it seems that if I lead for the pot and Flipper makes it 300 then we are deep enough that I can call and play the turn as a big favourite or get away from the hand.

ditpoker

i'm hardly an omaha expert but what you've described is more or less the problem i have with omaha. I think from playing so much holdem i'm conditioned to thinking it is never wrong to get your chips in with the best of it, but in omaha, from what i can tell it is never wrong to get your chips in with a massive draw like flipper does in the hand you described. I think the best way to have played your hand would be to lead the flop as you know its very draw heavy, but that said you're play is hardly incorrect. just unlucky. did he make his hand on the turn or river?

Rnger

I hate it! Your hand is very weak against someone who is showing a great deal of interest in the pot. Your drawing to as little as 1 out here alot of the time, and running jacks:o . As played, fold to the 300+ reraise

I dont know how you can identify him as drawing. Some of the time he has a massive draw and your flipping a coin, other times your absolutely fcuked. I dunno what kind of game this is but fold that bag o' ****e preflop!

I dont see any optimal line bar folding, check-calling i guess will lose you the least amount of money


I am also no omaha expert so rip me to shreds plz cardshark and 5starpool

LuckyLloyd

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LuckyLloyd

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5starpool

Ugh. What an ugly hand, both outcome, and your holding. I really don't think bottom set on this (or any really) board is worth playing for stacks on the flop when you are that deep. I bet the flop usually here and probably call the reraise just, especially as you have one of your own blockers. If a scare card (and most cards are at this point) comes on the turn I check, and probably fold at that point. If a blank comes then bet it. The pot would be 540 (60+240+240) now and enough to chase off all but the biggest of draws if he is playing correctly.

Also, I presume you meant you repotted to 240 and not 300? Unless there was a caller this cannot be correct.

From my 1 hour playing with Flipper in the 50 Omaha in the Fitz on Friday (when he sat with 4k, next biggest stack 800ish) I seen that he likes to try and put pressure on for peoples stacks with a variety of hands, not always premium.

5starpool

Rnger wrote:

I am also no omaha expert so rip me to shreds plz cardshark and 5starpool

If only I was anything near an expert.........

LuckyLloyd wrote:

Because you have a J in your hand you can write off the possibillity that he has top set.

This is the thinking that gets loads of people in trouble too. Yes, it is less likely, but generally if it points to top set then don't rule it out due to this. Against an aggressive palyer like flipper, there is a very wide range of hands he could be doing this with. Against someone else this would be less the case. A lot of the time if it smells like top set, and feels like top set, then that is what it is (not talking about this hand, just in general). Just know your player I guess.

RacingSilver

That's a bad bad hand. Should have been folded pre-flop.

I wouldn't put him on middle set either. He's either got top set or a big draw.
if he's got top set you're in very bad shape (I wouldn't dismiss this hand as readily as LuckyLloyd), and if he's got a big draw you're not too happy either.
The jack in your hand cuts down your probability of filling up too.
Having said all that, once you decided to take a flop with it, I think you played it ok apart from calling his reraise. I don't know how aggressive this flipper guy is but if he's a reasonable omaha player he might just be trying to steal the pot on the flop. If he is, then your reraise should make him go away. But when he re-pots it, you should run for cover.

Lafortezza

You're either coinflipping against a str8+flush draw or boned against middle set.
There's a small chance that Flipper is getting all in with a different type of hand like the nutflush draw and and over pair.

It kinds of depends on how the table and how Flipper has been playing. Any reads on him during the hand?

If the stacks are alot shallower then stick it in. But with stacks this deep against a non-donk then I think you have to fold to his re-raise of your 300 raise.

Also fold preflop unless you were BB and getting hella value.

fuzzbox

You need to fold to flippers repot.

As you said yourself .... he is either playing a big wrap (circa 50/50 with you) or he is playing top or middle set (you are destroyed).
You have no redraws yourself to protect you, and you are blocking yourself a little by holding a J.

so its a fold for me.


If you held something like 446h7h then I would be much more inclined to play for stacks, as now I have a made set, and flipper must fold middle set to my RE-RE-RE-Pot, AND, I am blocking a lot of outs to the big draw (splitting some, and holding some hearts and blocking some more with the SF draw. With a combo of FE Vs better hands and blockers Vs a draw and redraws Vs a better hand, this type of holding is much better than plain old bottom set.

Marq

Fold preflop.

As played you're in a bad spot, I usually fold bottom set here, but I'm weak.

cardshark202

Yeah you should fold preflop, but also you should lead the flop rather than check-raising as, given the stack sizes especially, it puts you in a horrible spot.
My default line here would be to lead for pot on flop and the evaluate my next move depending on the action after me. I would often try to get it in on a safe turn or someimes I would just fold to a lot of heat on the flop.

Flipper

5star, I didn't know you were at the table. I was basically playing like a w**ker because I was in a bit of a mood. BTW, buying in for €4k wasn't showing off or anything - it was just what I had changed up for the €100 game but there was no seats at the time. Ended up in the €100 omaha game downstairs and did really well.

Eoin, my cards in this particular hand were 3x6h7h8x so I had some breed of super-wrap with the flush (assuming it is live). I think your biggest mistake was being involved in the hand at all. On the flop, when I push re-pot from the €240, you have a good excuse to get away from it. We were the two big stacks at the table and if the hands were reversed, I'd like to think I would fold your hand. More often than not you'll be in terrible shape (me holding JJ or 55) or I'll have a monster draw (like I did). My style is to drive these draws but I always want to take the pot uncontested. You're unlucky in a way and as I said to you after, even if the cards were face up - we'd both pot the money in the middle. I would anyway.

5starpool

Flipper wrote:

5star, I didn't know you were at the table. I was basically playing like a w**ker because I was in a bit of a mood. BTW, buying in for €4k wasn't showing off or anything - it was just what I had changed up for the €100 game but there was no seats at the time. Ended up in the €100 omaha game downstairs and did really well.

I was in seat 2, to your left when you sat down first before you moved beside Bob. I figured it was a mixture of the game being too small for you and getting some over aggression out of the way before the bigger game, but I still didn't understand the sitting down with 4k. 6 of those yellow chips fit snugly in the pocket i'd imagine until needed. I heard you had a good night in the 100 game alright. Sounds like a good weekend for you to follow the good one before it.

MrPillowTalk

I know its a bag of sh1te hand, thats not what Im asking. Im just wondering what the optimal line is from the flop onwards, I think I inflate the pot unnecessarily by check raising and end up putting myself in a tough spot.

I quite enjoyed playing the bingo this weekend and I reckon its probably the better option if you want to win a big sum live, I think Ill work on getting a better understanding of it.

Flipper

You "optimal" line on the flop is to bet 60 before me (you were 3rd to act of 4) and when I pot 240, you'd have easier decisions. Calling the 240 would be perfectly correct and as I was out of position (i think), see what I do on the turn. Your call WILL scare me and it's hard to know what I'd do then. If a heart comes, I'll be concerned that it's hit you. An "action card" like another heart or the board pairing might be a check from me and it would be an opportunity for you to bet 3/4 pot.

I don't know if you remember the pot with the 234 board?? We both had 56 (actually I had 566x) and when I flushed on the end we both checked. I said to you that was your chance to win the hand... By betting with position. People don't realise the amount of times you can bluff a good player in omaha. The most important thing is knowing what they have and what they think you have.

BigCityBanker

and nowhere on boards have i seen Flipper thank MrPillowTalk for paying for his taxi home!! :rolleyes:

Im quite new to Omaha (but playing plenty of it currently online) so I have no comment on the hand other than if somebody wants to 3 bet a pot with me I am folding unless I currently have a monster with a redraw or unless I have player notes on the villian which contain the word "uberdonk" on a number of occasions.

RoundTower

I would usually bet the flop but I think checkraise is fine especially if Flipper will bet here a lot. I would fold to the 3 bet every time, he surely has a big draw or a set. I would fold 55 here with no J and no redraw.

The_Chopper

MrPillowTalk wrote:

In the Jackpot late Saturday night playing the omaha 1 - 1 - 5 game this hand bothered me a bit afterwards, Im still learning omaha so there were probably glaring errors made in my play.

Im in the game for a grand and Im up to €2250 (winning an €800 pot with 10 high at showdown allong the way lol) when this hand occurs. 4 of us take a flop for 15 each, I have Js3d4c4s and we take a flop of 4h 5h Jc.

Two checks to me and I check it on the Flipper who covers me by a couple of ton, he pots it for 60 and its folded round to me I repot to 300 and Flipper puts in a stack of blacks so now we are playing for stacks. At this point its obvious enough that he either has a huge draw a wrap with hearts or else he is playing middle set which will be a horrible spot for me, we get it in and when the dust settles Flipper makes the nut straight.

However this is my question on the flop should I be looking to get my stack in here or is conventional wisdom once Ive identified him as drawing to see a blank turn and then ship it? I was thinking what my optimal line on the flop would have been and it seems that if I lead for the pot and Flipper makes it 300 then we are deep enough that I can call and play the turn as a big favourite or get away from the hand.

Bottom set in omaha is a very tough hand to play. Especially on the board as described.
I don't mind leading or check raising in this spot. However if you are re-raised back again I would let the hand go as most of the time you are beat. Here's how I would have probably played the hand.
I would have led the flop and called a reraise. If a safe card comes on the turn I would push it again - if I am re-raised again I am almost always beat and would let the hand go.
P.S. Flipper is a luckbox - so I'd fold top set here, lol