Teaching of political theory and philosophy in our third level institutions

Lou.m

May i ask a question? I completed a B.A in philosospy a few years ago and studied political philosophy for three years. I am wondering how many of our politicians do you know of that have studied political theory or philosophy in a formal setting? And how important do you think it is to have done so?

Lou.m

Also to widden the discussion what do you think of the state of political theory in our education system anyway? I could not help but notice in university that whilst many studied political theory they very rarely got involved in societies and those that did get involved were usually studying something else. it is not promising is it?

Also in Europe philosophy can be studied in secondary school as can political philosophy, why not here? I know traditionally countries such as france have a greater tradition of this and it is reflected in the way politics is discussed, debates are of a much higher level there.

What do you think of the standard of education in political philosophy in our third level institutions? I would be interested in hearing particularly from people who might not have been educated here.

And do you think it is important to be formally educated in these matters?

m1ke

My guess is that a lot of our politicians have been grounded in basic political theory for several reasons. First, the intro to political theory is quite common in arts at UCD and many politicians recieved their education there, more politicians studied in UCD than elsewhere, and of those, more took arts. Second, general secondary education incorporated a lot more of the classics pre-1970 as latin was compulsory - meaning it was more likely they would have gotten some sort of exposure. As religion was also popular, they might have picked up some contact here too. Overall, politicians and various other bureacrats are probably more likely than any other group in the population to have been exposed to political theory.

With the introduction of CPSE to the JC and its possible extension to the LC, students are once again recieving a form of education in political theory, it focuses particularly on 'active citizenship', i'm not sure how useful this is, but it can't hurt.

In terms of societies at colleges, plenty of of theory people join them, participate and have a talent for applied politics. Either way, I don't think it is that important to have studied this subject, it is only one of many paths to a decent general education.

nesf

Lou.m wrote:

I could not help but notice in university that whilst many studied political theory they very rarely got involved in societies and those that did get involved were usually studying something else. it is not promising is it?

Eh, why would that not be promising? I've always had an interest in politics but joining student politics societies never held any interest for me. Too many idiots with loud voices drowning out the interesting ones generally (though that's a problem in most debating societies to be fair).


To the OP: Would you have to study political theory or philosophy formally to have an interest or an appreciation of it?

DadaKopf

Yep, studied politics but never got involved in a political party.

Got involved in student media, though. Political, but not party political, I suppose.

Mr. Incognito

more politicians studied in UCD than elsewhere, and of those, more took arts

Where the hell does this pseudo fact come from?

Most of the Fianna Fail back benchers are publicans.
Most of the Finna Gael Backbenchers are listed as farmers.

I love facts that are pulled out of thin air.

Gobán Saor

Lou.m wrote:

how many of our politicians do you know of that have studied political theory or philosophy in a formal setting? And how important do you think it is to have done so?

I'd prefer my politicians to have studied the "hard" sciences such as physics or engineering. Might get a better level of analysis and decision making.

Jackie laughlin

This is complete nonsense akin to the view that Ireland should be run on business lines by someone with experience of running a business.

Science and engineering is a form of knowledge which would inform political decision making.

A competent political decision maker (i.e. a citizen) must be reasonably versed in science, economics and the humanities.

how are you?

Gobán Saor wrote: »

I'd prefer my politicians to have studied the "hard" sciences such as physics or engineering. Might get a better level of analysis and decision making.

how can you nnot call politics hard?im currently in second year poiltics in ucd and it is damn hard work

politics helps us understand the world around us.if you study politics you will uinderstand the importance of poitical theory in modern day poitics

AngryHippie

Gobán Saor wrote: »

I'd prefer my politicians to have studied the "hard" sciences such as physics or engineering. Might get a better level of analysis and decision making.

I'll tell you a sad tale from DIT.
I studied there a few years ago, and as part of my Engineering course, we had professional development and communtications as a subject. It pretty much covered Any Other Business, making presentations, debates etc. My year was extremely fortunate in one sense, as we enjoyed a very enjoyable year of lectures from an eccentric character, But one theme that he harped on about was the US election at the time. He told us how the events in Florida of those few weeks in 2000/01 would affect the rest of our lives. As the drama unfolded and he painted the full picture of the tragedy that would ensue, He diverted more and more attention to it. Some of us loved it and got very interested in the topic, The majority of the class signed a petition that started off a chain of events that I am convinced led to his nervous breakdown. It is a sad state of affairs that most of my year were more concerned about Youngs modulus than an effective Coup d'etat in the country upon which Europe's economy depends.... Those same engineers are now staring down the barrel of a massive construction recession due to economic incompetence in that very country (and thier crazy foreign policy).

What is the Youngs modulus of irony ??????

Thomas_S_Hunterson

how are you? wrote: »

how can you nnot call politics hard?im currently in second year poiltics in ucd and it is damn hard work

politics helps us understand the world around us.if you study politics you will uinderstand the importance of poitical theory in modern day poitics

I don't think you understand the meaning of the word hard in this context. Subjects such as chemistry, physics, maths, engineering would be classed as hard sciences, while economics, sociology and political science are classed as soft science. It's nothing to do with how difficult they are.

Personally I think that most people studying politics at a high level will have a sufficient appreciation of the inherent failings of every single political ideology that they wont try and take sides and join any particular party. It would be almost hypocritical if they did.

AngryHippie wrote:

I'll tell you a sad tale from DIT.
I studied there a few years ago, and as part of my Engineering course, we had professional development and communtications as a subject. It pretty much covered Any Other Business, making presentations, debates etc. My year was extremely fortunate in one sense, as we enjoyed a very enjoyable year of lectures from an eccentric character, But one theme that he harped on about was the US election at the time. He told us how the events in Florida of those few weeks in 2000/01 would affect the rest of our lives. As the drama unfolded and he painted the full picture of the tragedy that would ensue, He diverted more and more attention to it. Some of us loved it and got very interested in the topic, The majority of the class signed a petition that started off a chain of events that I am convinced led to his nervous breakdown. It is a sad state of affairs that most of my year were more concerned about Youngs modulus than an effective Coup d'etat in the country upon which Europe's economy depends.... Those same engineers are now staring down the barrel of a massive construction recession due to economic incompetence in that very country (and thier crazy foreign policy).

What is the Youngs modulus of irony ??????

That's a very unfortunate story, and I think it comes from a mentality instilled by the Leaving Cert where students want only to be versed in any subject to the extent that is allows them to get an A in an exam, rather than the holistic knowledge, which a lecturer in the field can give.

AngryHippie

Absolutely.
Thats largely why I abandoned the engineering field, When I went into my 3rd year exams and saw at least half of my own year cheatin at exams I'd busted my hump to pass off my own batt. Fcuk them. Fcuk their **** careers I wish them all the best, but its not for me.
Any ideas on a good course to do to aside from the obvious politics/humanities arts angle, Cos I reckon I've read enough material that I'm interested in to have a good grounding to go into that field without running for election !!!

gaf1983

AngryHippie wrote: »

Absolutely.
Thats largely why I abandoned the engineering field, When I went into my 3rd year exams and saw at least half of my own year cheatin at exams I'd busted my hump to pass off my own batt. Fcuk them. Fcuk their **** careers I wish them all the best, but its not for me.
Any ideas on a good course to do to aside from the obvious politics/humanities arts angle, Cos I reckon I've read enough material that I'm interested in to have a good grounding to go into that field without running for election !!!

Journalism. You can comment on the political sphere from the outside then.

Were any of your classmates ever caught for cheating?

AngryHippie

Nah, the invigilators couldn't give a toss. Some day, real supervisors will come in to cover the exams in that place, and half of them will be fcuked out of it.