Ryanair slates Aer Lingus

Idbatterim

was reading the about us section on Ryanairs website, heres the link http://www.ryanair.com/site/EN/about.php , read what it has to say about Aer Lingus in the last paragraph. Im sure AL would be pretty pi**ed if they heard what Ryanair referred to them as...

Red Alert

Aer Lingus and the government wanted the free market. They got it. Time to shut up or put up.

MrPudding

That is funny.

I find the mention of inflight mobile phone use interesting. Anyone know anything about this?

MrP

Blackjack

The signed a deal with some company so that people can use their phones while in the air.

More details here.

markpb

Considering AL carried 8m last year compared to Ryanairs 25m, they are pretty small in comparison. Dunno about regional though.

BuffyBot

I'd think thats more of a dig than a slate.

OTK

markpb wrote:

Considering AL carried 8m last year compared to Ryanairs 25m, they are pretty small in comparison. Dunno about regional though.

The above link claims Ryanair will carry 42.5m passengers in 2006.

Thargy

Motormouth O'Leary and his little helpers in their PR Dept are full of hot air.
Pathetic attacks on other companies are their stock-in-trade and are simply intended to divert the gullible from their own numerous and well publicised short comings in passenger service.

Incidentally, the 'dig' about Aer Lingus being a 'small regional airline' is factually incorrect. Aer Lingus is an International airline, serving inter-continental long haul destinations that Ryanair has never ventured to, and never will.

BuffyBot

Incidentally, the 'dig' about Aer Lingus being a 'small regional airline' is factually incorrect.

Ermm yes, we all know that, including Ryanair. Although yes, they are a lot smaller than Ryanair.

tbh

that's pretty funny, i have to say.

A Dub in Glasgo

Thargy wrote:

Incidentally, the 'dig' about Aer Lingus being a 'small regional airline' is factually incorrect. Aer Lingus is an International airline, serving inter-continental long haul destinations that Ryanair has never ventured to, and never will.

The way I read it was the fact that AL only fly to destinations from Ireland whereas Ryanair fly to destinations from loads of different countries. Regional airline being 'from Ireland only'.

steve-o

Thargy wrote:

Incidentally, the 'dig' about Aer Lingus being a 'small regional airline' is factually incorrect. Aer Lingus is an International airline, serving inter-continental long haul destinations that Ryanair has never ventured to, and never will.

That dig was intended to touch a few nerves, and it looks like it did
Don't forget, Ryanair operate intercontinental flights as well

Victor

steve-o wrote:

Don't forget, Ryanair operate intercontinental flights as well

So do Ryanair. To Morrocco and the Canaries.

parsi

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

The way I read it was the fact that AL only fly to destinations from Ireland whereas Ryanair fly to destinations from loads of different countries. Regional airline being 'from Ireland only'.

AL fly from Dubai, US, Germany...

Recon

parsi wrote:

AL fly from Dubai, US, Germany...

All of Aerlingus' flights either come from or go to Ireland. Will Ryanair have flights that never go near Ireland.

Lennoxschips

All of KLM's flights originate from Amsterdam, if you don't count stopovers.

That doesn't make them a regional airline.

Thargy

Correct Lennoxschips.
Perhaps "A Dub in Glasgo' - with his vast aviation knowledge - can explain to us what feckin difference it actually makes to him WHERE Ryanair base their aircraft?

The answer - to the paying public - is NONE. It is a strategy used by Ryanair not only to sponge on other countries markets, but also to circumvent proper regulation (which other airlines are subject to), to allow them to 'play-off' and blackmail regional airports (Ryanair is a REGIONAL airline) and to make it as difficult as possible for staff to form a cohesive unit - which might demand union recognition. A real win-win scenario for a company with zero scruples.

By the way, Aer Lingus has announced plans for bases outside Ireland shortly. You can bet the product and the regulation will be a damn sight better than Ryanairs cheap and nasty offerring.

Tom Dunne

Thargy wrote:

By the way, Aer Lingus has announced plans for bases outside Ireland shortly. You can bet the product and the regulation will be a damn sight better than Ryanairs cheap and nasty offerring.

Wow, somebody has a real grudge against Ryanair. You're not an employee, or former employee by any chance Thargy?

I wouldn't count on Aer Lingus' product would be any better than Ryanair's. Aer Lingus has to make a profit too, you know.

Thargy

Wow, somebody has a real grudge against Ryanair. You're not an employee, or former employee by any chance Thargy?

Last time I checked this thread was about Ryanair - not me. Try to stick to discussing Ryanair and leave me out of it. Alternatively, open a new thread called 'Thargy' and see how much interest you generate. Good luck.

I wouldn't count on Aer Lingus' product would be any better than Ryanair's. Aer Lingus has to make a profit too, you know.

Aer Lingus - Cheap and Cheerful.

Ryanair - Cheap and Nasty.

Ryanair make a virtue out of treating their customers and their staff like ****. I don't expect Aer Lingus (or most other airlines for that matter) to adopt the Ryanair model to that level. Mainly because it all flows directly from the dysfunctional personality at the helm - O'Leary himself.

BendiBus

The rumoured new Aer Lingus base is Riga. So expect within a year or two all Aer Lingus staff to be on Latvian contracts with Latvian salaries

Thargy

Speaking of Latvia....the east european cabin crew who work for Ryanair are victims of the most outrageous treatment. All are hired on temporary contracts and have no rostered work. They are required to show up at Ryanair HQ each morning at 6AM and wait to see if they'll fly.

They're no better than day labourers - its reminiscent of the Dublin docks in Jim Larkins time. Any Irish person who would accept that treatment would need their head examined.

That would explain why out of 1,000 Ryanair cabin crew based in Dublin, only 11 (yes, 11) are Irish. The rest are victimised foreign workers.:mad:

A Dub in Glasgo

Thargy wrote:

Correct Lennoxschips.
Perhaps "A Dub in Glasgo' - with his vast aviation knowledge - can explain to us what feckin difference it actually makes to him WHERE Ryanair base their aircraft?

Prehaps you can post with less of the hyperbole and more of the facts

Thargy

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

Prehaps you can post with less of the hyperbole and more of the facts

So thats a no then.
As I thought. All mouth and no trousers.

killbillvol2

Thargy wrote:

So thats a no then.
As I thought. All mouth and no trousers.

If anyone's being throwing "facts" around here without backing them up it's you.
Could we have the sources for your information on Ryanair's Eastern European employees and the number of Irish cabin crew based in Dublin?
And I don't know when you last flew with Aer Lingus (I presume you never fly with Ryanair) but I don't see any major difference between the two airlines in the last couple of years as regards service. There was a time when Aer Lingus cabin crew were a cut above their competitors. Not any more.
Anyway, I just want to get from A to B. I don't need a cuddle on the way.

Tom Dunne

Thargy wrote:

Last time I checked this thread was about Ryanair - not me. Try to stick to discussing Ryanair and leave me out of it.

It would be interesting nonetheless to get an insight into your anti-Ryanair vitriol. From your baseless rantings and potentially libelous outbursts, one can only deduce that your are in fact a disgruntled Ryanair employee whom, in posting on this very thread, displays a remarkably similar philosophy of confrontation as the company in question.

killbillvol2 wrote:

Anyway, I just want to get from A to B. I don't need a cuddle on the way.

ROFL

dowlingm

I suspect the RIX base will basically be EI planes leaving early in the morning and returning as late as crewing will allow and spending the rest of the day doing runs in Western Europe say RIX-AMS-DUB-AMS-DUB-AMS-RIX or something. That way you have Latvian crewing and maintenance doing Dublin sectors.

FlutterinBantam

Hmmmm... 6 landings.. edge of the auld envelope I would say

Calina

dowlingm wrote:

I suspect the RIX base will basically be EI planes leaving early in the morning and returning as late as crewing will allow and spending the rest of the day doing runs in Western Europe say RIX-AMS-DUB-AMS-DUB-AMS-RIX or something. That way you have Latvian crewing and maintenance doing Dublin sectors.

Unlikely that it would involve a single crew though. Each of those legs is approximately 2 hours which brings you up to a flying time of 12 hours a day not including turn around time which would probably add 2 hours to the day - even in a best case scenario, it's definitely an hour on a 20min turn around. I'd be stunned if even in Latvia you could leave a single crew working that sort of a hop. And crew have to be in place one hour before take off. I think that working time is linked to European legislation in terms of working time and that would cover both Latvia and Ireland, not withstanding the number of take offs and landing.

I think your scenario would involve two crews.

BendiBus

dowlingm wrote:

I suspect the RIX base will basically be EI planes leaving early in the morning and returning as late as crewing will allow and spending the rest of the day doing runs in Western Europe say RIX-AMS-DUB-AMS-DUB-AMS-RIX or something. That way you have Latvian crewing and maintenance doing Dublin sectors.

What's this obsession with talking in code when it comes to aviation? It's worse than txtspk. Stop abusing the language! Or at least use the much more upmarket ICAO speak, not cheap nasty IATA codes

dowlingm

jeez... fine - EVRA-EHAM-EIDW-EHAM-EIDW-EHAM-EVRA. ICAO is hard unless you live in Canada where it's C + the IATA code As for abbreviations, aviation is full of them and that's just life - ILS, NDB, DME, RVR, MTOW... Should we stop saying IE, DB, BE, RPA, Mk3, DTO, P11, IRN, RTE... :rolleyes:

Calina/Flutter - that was only an example obviously - in the real world crewing would depend on whatever Latvia's flying hours regulations/cap371 equivalent are - perhaps a crew would deadhead to Amsterdam or Hamburg or Berlin and relieve the morning crew - with multiple aircraft/crews/destinations the whole thing changes.

I'm a bit surprised though, seems a bit far east when next stop is basically Russia which doesn't do open skies. Now if a Riga-position to St Petersberg-Dublin-St Petersberg-back to Riga was possible...? I would have thought Prague or Budapest would be more central especially with former Yugoslavia starting to come out of the civil war era but maybe they wanted more money than DM wants to pay!

Thargy

killbillvol2 wrote:

If anyone's being throwing "facts" around here without backing them up it's you.

Regarding Ryanairs hiring policies in Ireland - read this link to the Ryanair website recruitment page: http://www.ryanair.com/site/EN/about.php?page=JOBS&sec=careers

On that page you should note the following:

Their Cabin Crew recruitment is entirely focussed outside Ireland.

The individuals they hold up as great examples of current Ryanair Cabin Crew (Gintare and Juris) are both EAST EUROPEANs - recruited from Eastern Europe and employed in Dublin. Not Latvia or Lithuania.

Where are the Irish? Where is Pat and Mary??

Note also the description of employment terms. They quote "Excellent earnings based on your efforts..." which is a clever way of saying you will be lucky to earn minimum wage - if you don't sell goods on board during the flight.

Also they offer "A fixed term contract for 3 years with a Cabin Crew agency who are contracted to supply cabin crew to Ryanair". In other words, you are not a Ryanair employee, and can be used or abused by them as they wish - you are a contractee without any comittment from them.

This is how they can demand cabin crew show up at 6AM with no idea of what work they will get. It is ALSO how Ryanair can claim to have only a few hundred 'employees' on their books. Quite correct - but they fail to mention that they indirectly employ thousands! This makes a complete lie of their claims of 'super efficiency' over other companies, which is the stick Aer Lingus management use to beat their own Irish employees.

The facts are there for anyone who cares to look. Most people unfortunately would prefer to turn a blind eye - all that matters is their own cheap ticket. Exploitation of the foreign workers is of no concern. Those cheap tickets are only possible through the sweatshop practices of Ryanair.

Incidentally, I raised the matter on a Cabin Crew Forum at another website - here's the response I got from a CCM:

The reason you get very few Irish as cabin crew in Dublin is because they are not willing to accept the awful conditions in a city like Dublin with high prices. I have flown from Dublin many times and it is pathetic and sad to meet these eastern european cabin crew,living in extremely crowded accommodation in north Dublin, walking to work and not being able to afford to have a prper lunch so that the few Irish cabin crew and flight crew in Dublin will often share their lunches with them. These people are being expoited by O'Leary and his henchmen pimps. What's the betting that some senior Ryanair management have a share in the cabin crew recruitment agencies. They certainly have a share in teh Pilot recruitment agencies. The newly recruited cabin crew think they will have a lovely well paid glamorous career but reality hits when Ryanair deduct their training costs, uniform costs etc. They burn out only after a few years.

And I don't know when you last flew with Aer Lingus (I presume you never fly with Ryanair) but I don't see any major difference between the two airlines in the last couple of years as regards service. There was a time when Aer Lingus cabin crew were a cut above their competitors. Not any more.
Anyway, I just want to get from A to B. I don't need a cuddle on the way.

You won't get a cuddle from O'Leary - but you WILL get a swift kick up the arse when things go pear shaped at some remote and windswept airfield. Ryanair will cancel your flight and (as they've done to many hundreds of people) tell you to 'get stuffed' (in those exact terms) if you ask for assistance.
Aer Lingus still treat people like human beings, not cattle, unlike Ruinair.

MadsL

Aer Lingus still treat people like human beings, not cattle, unlike Ruinair.

Shame AL fked themselves on bag charges then...

Incidentaly my wife was treated like cattle...
Charged €130 o/w bags
Then AL mess up an incoming flight (wrong type of aircraft)
No info given on the delay for FOUR hours...text message from home confirmed the flight was cancelled.
AL announce flight cancelled (no reason given)
No EU rules info given
Overnight hotel - NO meals
Bus to Munich - not even same airport
Letter to customer services (12 weeks still waiting for an acknowledgement even)
Try ringing customers service - they have NO phone!!!!!! Letters only would you beleive (even the Office of Consumer affairs had to go there personally once after numerous unanswered letters)

Thargy

Overnight hotel - Bus to Munich

You do realise that you'd have gotten Diddly Squat from Ryanair?
Except maybe a blunt 'Eff Off'.

ALT baggage charges - introduced as a direct response to Ryanairs baggage charges.

Personally I don't agree with them.
I don't blindly agree with every single thing Aer Lingus does - witness my comments on their managements recent provocative behaviour.

However, the declining standard of customer service in the aviation industry has been largely driven by the necessity to compete head to head with LoCo carriers (esp. Ryanair) who have inexorably whittled things down to the point where every single cost has to be eliminated - or actually made a 'profit centre'.
Passengers can't have it both ways. If you want a cheap ticket - expect to have to pay for pretty much everything 'extra'.

People on this BB criticise ALT for 'poor economic performance' - well the baggage charges brought in a million euro in the first week of operation. It'll generate in excess of 52 million in pure profit in a full year. So I guess that makes it a 'good thing' if you measure everything by raw 'economic performance' standards, which seems indeed to be all that matters nowadays.

If Ryanair does it - everyone else follows. Thats the size of it.

Such a shame.
This business has been ruined.

Gurgle

Thargy wrote:

If Ryanair does it - everyone else follows. Thats the size of it.

Such a shame.
This business has been ruined.

Yes, its a damn shame that air travel has degenerated to the stage that we can go for a weekend to Barcelona cheaper than to Cork.

Those glorious days when 'Pilot' was a job title on the same list as 'Astronaut' at 'Rocket scientist' are gone. Now they're just bus drivers with wings.

Well, we'll just have to struggle on and try to take some comfort from the thrice-yearly weekend breaks to interesting places.

PhoenixRising

Gurgle wrote:

Yes, its a damn shame that air travel has degenerated to the stage that we can go for a weekend to Barcelona cheaper than to Cork.

Those glorious days when 'Pilot' was a job title on the same list as 'Astronaut' at 'Rocket scientist' are gone. Now they're just bus drivers with wings.

Well, we'll just have to struggle on and try to take some comfort from the thrice-yearly weekend breaks to interesting places.

Spoken like the man himself. You're Michael O'Leary aren't you?

Trampas

Like or hate them. Ryanair has a very successful business model.

When most airline were losing money Ryanair were making money.

If it wasn't for Ryanair we would probably be still paying hundreds of euros to fly to england or getting the ferry.

I am no Ryanair fan but what they have done for making it cheap and easy for peole to fly is great.

If you don't like them don't fly with them. Its simple as that. If you don't like how they pay don't work for them. If people are going to work for the wages they will pay them that much.

Thargy

Yeah, so quit bitchin' about extra charges too. Its all part of the gig.

If it wasn't for Ryanair we would probably be still paying hundreds of euros to fly to england or getting the ferry.

No you wouldn't. The LoCo model wasn't invented by Ryanair. It was created by Herb Kelleher, the founder of SouthWest Airlines in the US.
SouthWest are America's largest carrier by passenger numbers, and the worlds third largest carrier. By that measure Ryanair is indeed just a small regional airline.
Ryanair are not LoCo's only succesful exponent. There are dozens more LoCo's following the SouthWest model. If Ryanair were gone tomorrow you wouldn't miss them, there'd be plenty of alternatives.

I am no Ryanair fan but what they have done for making it cheap and easy for peole to fly is great.

Cheap and Nasty you mean.

If you don't like them don't fly with them. Its simple as that.

Thanks - I don't.

If you don't like how they pay don't work for them.

Thanks - I won't.

If people are going to work for the wages they will pay them that much.

This completely ignores the immorality of their treatment of vulnerable foreign workers.
I'm alright Jack......

Spoken like the man himself. You're Michael O'Leary aren't you?

Nah, Gurgle is a just loser who lost every round so far and is now reduced to cat calling. Ignore him.

By the way, just for clarification - Ryanair DO NOT fly to Barcelona.

killbillvol2

Thargy wrote:

That would explain why out of 1,000 Ryanair cabin crew based in Dublin, only 11 (yes, 11) are Irish.

I asked you for the source for that information.

Thargy wrote:

Their Cabin Crew recruitment is entirely focussed outside Ireland.

So what? They're recruiting in Eastern Europe and, according to the link you so kindly provided, in Spain. In other EU countries. Like a lot of companies in Ireland.

Thargy wrote:

The individuals they hold up as great examples of current Ryanair Cabin Crew (Gintare and Juris) are both EAST EUROPEANs

????

Thargy wrote:

Incidentally, I raised the matter on a Cabin Crew Forum at another website

Why? Do you work for a rival airline?

Thargy

Yes, other companies recruit outside Ireland. I heard there are 2,400 Brazilians on slave wages in a meat factory in Gort.

Ryanair recruits outside Ireland for the very same reason as the meat factories - no Irish person wants slave wages.

Do you work for Ryanair?

killbillvol2

No. I don't work for Ryanair.

I've answered your question. Now answer mine. What's your source (if any) for the information you quoted and do you work for another airline?

therecklessone

Thargy wrote:

Do you work for Ryanair?

Twenty posts ago you refused to answer a similar question.

Goose and gander spring to mind.

Victor

Thargy wrote:

People on this BB criticise ALT for 'poor economic performance' - well the baggage charges brought in a million euro in the first week of operation. It'll generate in excess of 52 million in pure profit in a full year.

Not pure profit, staff are getting a commissionand an increase in baggage charges means a reduction in average ticket prices.

Gurgle

PhoenixRising wrote:

Spoken like the man himself. You're Michael O'Leary aren't you?

Lol, I wish I had his money

No, I'm not Michael O'Leary, but while I have reservations about some of the reported rules about working in Ryanair I have a lot of respect for the man.

He carries on with a 'Feck the begrudgers' attitude and runs the biggest and most succesful Irish company there is.

The Ryanair staff have the same options as the rest of us - If you don't like it here then leave. Theres plenty of airlines.

Nah, Gurgle is a just loser who lost every round so far and is now reduced to cat calling. Ignore him.

You've lost me with your highly advanced linguistic capabilities. What does cat calling mean?

Thargy wrote:

By the way, just for clarification - Ryanair DO NOT fly to Barcelona.

No, they fly to Girona and provide busses to Barcelona which is an hour away. Good enough for me thanks.

They also fly to Bilund so my next trip on the flying busses is to take my kids to Legoland next month.

Thargy wrote:

People on this BB criticise ALT for 'poor economic performance'

Not me, Airlingus have improved a lot pricewise and they often work out cheaper than Ryanair when you take everything into account.

Bradidup

Idbatterim wrote:

was reading the about us section on Ryanairs website, heres the link http://www.ryanair.com/site/EN/about.php , read what it has to say about Aer Lingus in the last paragraph. Im sure AL would be pretty pi**ed if they heard what Ryanair referred to them as...

Ryanair are nothing more than a Mc Donalds restaurant with wings!!!!. They have a lot in common, their food is the same, they are cheap & tacky, livery is similar and are they both operate througout Europe!!!. I think Aer lingus would ignore such a statement as it would only draw the attention of which Ryanair trives on!!!

Gurgle

Bradidup wrote:

Ryanair are nothing more than a Mc Donalds restaurant with wings!!!!.

I absolutely agree.

But don't you ever have those days when you couldn't be bothered cooking and you don't have €50 to spare to eat in Eddie Rockets?