Having second thoughts...

gosimeon

Does God care?

If he doesn't then what sort of God is there?

Is there a God?

The Bible lies.

So how do I know what God is, and what he wants, and why he wants what he wants?

Too much crap has being happening in my life of late to actually justify faith in God for me. I did have faith. Then I fooled myself for a while. Now I have to give it up.

Example:

My uncle heads off to Spain with his two kids and wife.
His parents said a prayer for him, as they are Religious people. They prayed for his safety, and the safety of his family.

He returned in a casket after drowning on a beach with his kids and wife right there in front of him.

God promised that when we ask for things that are in accordance with His will, He will give us what we ask for (1 John 5:14-15).

So does that mean that a young father dying in front of his traumatised children and wife is Gods will? And if it is, then surely God is not "love", as the Bible also states.

It's pretty clear to me now that if there is a God up there, he certainly cares not for us lot down here.

Famine, tsunamis, miscariages, cancer... the work of a God that cares?

Explain.

Schuhart

Clearly, you find sense in your own way. One thought that comes to mind in response to the tragic situation you outline comes from a Jesuit by the name of Pierre Teilhard.

In the final analysis, the questions of why bad things happen to good people transmutes itself into some very different questions, no longer asking why something happened, but asking how we will respond, what we intend to do now that it happened.

His outlook, in my opinion, face the realities of which you speak without flinching or seeking easy answers, while remaining committed to doing good in the world. In his outlook, which I feel is grounded in common sense, the world we live in and the species of which we are part is still a work in progress. What happens next is entirely in our hands. As he says,

Our duty, as men and women, is to proceed as if limits to our ability did not exist. We are collaborators in creation.

There is really no God looking after you in this approach. Despite that, Teilhard himself regarded the Christian faith as the best available guide to how humanity might take itself further. While the old certainties don't exist in this approach, I find it hard to argue with the essential outlook. The sense of it grows with, in my opinion, on reflection.

Asiaprod

Schuhart wrote:

Clearly, you find sense in your own way. One thought that comes to mind in response to the tragic situation you outline comes from a Jesuit by the name of Pierre Teilhard.His outlook, in my opinion, face the realities of which you speak without flinching or seeking easy answers, while remaining committed to doing good in the world.

I would agree, a very insightful person. His work is well worth a read.

OP, You outlined a very tragic event, unfortunately this is life. If I may be so personal as to ask what exactly are you seeking for.
Are you looking for help and justification to believe in God, or agreement from others that he does not exist? I ask this since both camps are represented here and you may want to really focus on what it is you are seeking.

With the best of intentions
Asiaprod

gosimeon

I'm looking for the opinions of the Christians on here about the at times obvious conflict between what we are promised in the Bible and what happens in reality. My story is just an example I used to illustrate how the Bible's promises simple aren't met. Was just looking for opinion.

If I wanted justification to believe in God, or agreement from others that he doesn't exist, I can't imagine that an internet forum would be my fitst post of call (no offence!).

Puck

What promise or promises do you think have not been met? The verse you've referenced promises that Christians have an audience in prayer with God and that if we ask something in accordance with his will it will be done. When I was a child I prayed that people would stop dying, not only the people that I loved but everyone. Obviously that prayer was not answered with a "yes".

It is God's will that we live in this world, as broken and fragile as it is. It is God's will that man should be capable of choosing what to do with himself be it for good or bad. It is God's will that we should have seasons and weather and tectonic plates that do their thing. We don't know the reason behind so much tragedy or indeed if there is any reason at all sometimes. But I trust in God. I know that so much of the time I haven't a clue what's going on behind the scenes but I know that He knows and asks me to trust Him.

I think that while we live in this state of ignorance it is not our job to know the answer to every why and how but to be able to answer "what now?" with loving and healing actions.

If I was walking down the street with my girlfriend and she was attacked I could pursue the attacker, beat him up and find out why he did what he did. Or I could let him run off and tend to my injured girlfriend who I love.

Zombrex

From a Christian perspective (and I would point out I'm not Christian) I think the idea of God "letting" bad things happen is in line with free will.

If God didn't let bad things happen then we wouldn't have free will. God doesn't let good things or bad things happen, He lets things, in general, happen. That will produce bad things as it will produce good things, because that is just the way things are.

Asiaprod

Wicknight wrote:

From a Christian perspective (and I would point out I'm not Christian) I think the idea of God "letting" bad things happen is in line with free will.

That is an impressive post.

Zombrex

Asiaprod wrote:

That is an impressive post.

Thanks. I would probably make a good Christian

Scofflaw

Wicknight wrote:

Thanks. I would probably make a good Christian

If you stare into the Abyss long enough the Abyss stares back at you.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Asiaprod

Wicknight wrote:

Thanks. I would probably make a good Christian

Or Buddhist, I'm sorry, I could not resist that:)
Happy Xmas

BrianCalgary

Just two verses spring to mind:

Philippians 3:20
But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ,

Philippians 3:14
I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.

Heaven is our goal. The question is where are we going to spend eternity? The garbage that we put up with while here is the result of free will (well put wicknight:) ). 10,000 yaers from now the garbage wont matter much as we are reunited in Heaven.

I tell my kids that if I where to die, grieve your missing me, but celebrate the fact that I am home with my Lord, having a big ol' time and to be reasssured of our being reunited in His presence at some point in the future.

If your uncle was in God's will then something great will come as a result of this tragedy. What it is I can't know.

Our deepest condolences.

BrianCalgary

gosimeon wrote:

I'm looking for the opinions of the Christians on here about the at times obvious conflict between what we are promised in the Bible and what happens in reality.

As a Christian I understand that the world is influenced by an evil that is in rebellion against God. The promises that God makes are not for now but for Heaven. The peace that passes all understanding will come about after all is said and done.

As a Christian I don't expect my life to be easy and financially prosperous I actually expect it to be quite the opposite. I do however trust that God is in control of my life. I also trust that if He were to take one of my kids away that even though I would be devastated, I would trust that God knew what He was doing. We were actually on that threshold a year ago for about an hour. An hour of hell as I was forced to consider a life without my middle child.

But not once did I waver in my understanding of God's control in the situation.

JimiTime

I'm not sure about the 'Gods will taking place' in relation to death. God is allowing mankind enough time to work out that 'man will govern itself to its injury'. Man needs God, and by the time Armageddon comes there will be no excuse to contradict that point. In the signs of the end Jesus said that there will be earthquakes in one place after another and natural disaters. Food shortages, nation will rise against nation, no natural affection. There will be a great tribulation, such as the world has never seen before nor will ever see again. The death, the pain, all of these are caused by Man. God does not cause them, but has allowed them to occur according to what is written. Jesus told us that this world will pass away, and thus 'store your treasure in heaven, where neither moth nor rust will consume'.
Your uncle is merely 'asleep' in the 1st death of which we are assured is temporary, he will awake to the great judgement. You say he was a faithful man, then rejoice that he died a faithful man, for he will inherit much. One of the fruits of the spirit is, 'long-suffering', think about that.
Another point. It was foretold of Jesus, that not even a stone should his foot trip on until his appointed time, no one else ever had such protection. Thus Satan tried to get him to test God by telling him to throw himself off the cliffedge as God would have his angels catch him in relation to what was written. Jesus of course rebuked Satan, quoting the commandment, 'You must not put God to the test'. The point here is that Jesus got this protection until his appointed time. Then he was beaten, mocked, spat at, humiliated publically and finally impaled on a torture stake. The faithful apostle Paul was beaten to an inch of his life by angry Jews who said he blasphemed. The faithful Stephen was stoned to death on account of the name of Jesus Christ. This world is passing away, this world who's ruler is the devil. Follow Christs example in this world and build up your treasures with him. Keep your faith and indeed Gods promises will indeed be fulfilled to you 'And he will wipe out every tear from their eye, and death will be no more'. Remember, 'long-suffering'.
I have lost my brother in law of 23 and my father of 49 in the last 12 years, so I know how hard a death like this is to deal with. Faith and hope in Gods promise gives great solace to those 2 awful events. I still mourn their passing, but it just rams home that death is wholly un-natural.
I am sorry for your loss, but your Faith is what will give you strength in a time like this. Anger can consume you, an awful bitterness can set in, keep your faith and you will inherit what your faithful uncle will. A perfect being in a perfect world without death or pain as promised by God. Nobody said it would be easy.