Driving on your first Provisional

I_Mr_Euphony

Just a quick question about driving on your first provisional.

Is it actually against the law to drive with out a fully licensed driver in the car with you when you are on your first provisional?

Lots of people have siad that it is and lots have said that it isn't.

Does anybody actually know for certain?

~euph

wba88

yes it is

feylya

Car drivers (category with a provisional licence must be accompanied at all times by, and under the supervision of, a person with a current full driving licence to drive a car. (The only exception to this, is where the driver holds a second provisonal driving licence to drive a car). The obligation to be accompanied by a qualified driver is set down in SI 352/99 Road Traffic (Licensing of Drivers) Regulations 1999.

http://oasis.gov.ie/transport/motoring/provisional_driving_licence.html?search=provisional+licence

Alun

I_Mr_Euphony wrote:

Just a quick question about driving on your first provisional.

Is it actually against the law to drive with out a fully licensed driver in the car with you when you are on your first provisional?

Yes.

Lots of people have siad that it is and lots have said that it isn't.

The ones who said it isn't are wrong.

Does anybody actually know for certain?

Yes.

Stark

If you look at your licence, you'll see a code 999 which means you must be accompanied by a fully licenced driver.

I_Mr_Euphony

I see, far enough.....

Thanks,

~euph

Car Mad

ill let u in on a little secret everybody on a provisional drives unacompanied and the gards dont even bother enfourcing it.

mloc123

Car Mad wrote:

ill let u in on a little secret everybody on a provisional drives unacompanied and the gards dont even bother enfourcing it.

:eek: are you serious? Where did you hear this secret? :rolleyes:

Car Mad

mloc123 wrote:

:eek: are you serious? Where did you hear this secret? :rolleyes:

i dont know thats why its a secret;) no but in all honesty do whats a gard goin to do put you in jail because you want bring your ma with you too work:D iv yet to see someone been done for driving unacompanied.i have heard of it (but they were acting like twats twas excessive speeding dangerous driving )

Volvoboy

Well if your acting the bollox in the car, they'll pull ya faster than you can text ''Who did i wear the face off last nite?'', but if you drive an average car and you dont act the knob, the guards wont pay a blind bit of notice to you, been driving since feb 06 without L plates on, been throgh a load of check points and was'nt even asked to produce.


-VB-

Idleater

Car Mad wrote:

i dono thats why its a secreat;) no but in all honestly do whats a gard goin to do put u in jail coz you want bring ur ma with u too work:D iv yet to see someone been done for driving unacompanied.i have heard of it (but they wer acting the twas excessive speeding dangerous driving )

What?

Are you related to Gamer?

Car Mad

nereid wrote:

What?

Are you related to Gamer?

a fair bit off topic but whos gamer?

deman

I know the Gards have been pretty lazy in enforcing this law but from what I understand, they're cracking down on unlawful drivers right now. So I'd be extra careful if I were the OP.

And as for Gamer, who gives a toss?

Car Mad

well as i said before if they enfource that rule the econamy would shut down.over 400,000 provisional licence drives on the road how many of those drive to work unacompanied.if you cant drive to work you cant work full stop

ballooba

400,000 provisional drivers? I'm sure you mean 40,000?

I don't think the GRA would accept a directive to crack down on this until the testing backlog is cleared. It wouldn't really be fair.

It's not ideal having 40,000 unlicensed drivers driving around, but you can't expect people to wait 12 months for the privilege of getting a licence either.

Seth Brundle

ballooba wrote:

400,000 provisional drivers? I'm sure you mean 40,000?

Found this from a quick google...
http://www.rte.ie/news/2006/0823/drivers.html?rss

The Chief Executive Officer of the Road Safety Authority, Noel Brett, has said it is unacceptable that there are 430,000 people driving on provisional licences in Ireland.

As for the gardai not doing people for it - read what this thread is about...

Wishbone Ash

ballooba wrote:

I don't think the GRA would accept a directive to crack down on this until the testing backlog is cleared. It wouldn't really be fair

A lot of provisional licence holders use that argument but it doesn't add up. There are 430,000 on provisional licences but only 130,000 on the waiting list for driving tests. What's the story with the other 300,000? :rolleyes:

MrPudding

Wishbone Ash wrote:

A lot of provisional licence holders use that argument but it doesn't add up. There are 430,000 on provisional licences but only 130,000 on the waiting list for driving tests. What's the story with the other 300,000? :rolleyes:

This is something that I have been wondering about.

You have to presume that it is made up of people that can't be bothered doing it and people that aren't capable of passing it.

I know a number of people that failed the test a bunch of time and just said fcuk it, tokk the plates down and have no intention trying again.

MrP

snickerpuss

Yeah but also alot of people get provisionals and then don't drive. I got mine just under 2 years ago so i'll be on my 2nd next month but i've only started learning in the last month. So not all 300,000 are driving around, most probably are using it for ID.

jhegarty

kbannon wrote:

As for the gardai not doing people for it - read what this thread is about...

I think that just makes the point that will only do you if you are doing something else wrong (poster was untaxed)

rossious

I always find it funny looking at people faces over here when I tell them that in Ireland you can drive, on your own, to your driving test. You can then be failed by a tester, certifying you as unable to drive correctly.

Oh well, anyway you can then jump back in your car on your own and drive home to tell you mates the tester was an a$$.

(That doesn't help when people abroad thing irish ppl are a bit stupid anyway!!!) :rolleyes:

Car Mad

ballooba wrote:

400,000 provisional drivers? I'm sure you mean 40,000?

I don't think the GRA would accept a directive to crack down on this until the testing backlog is cleared. It wouldn't really be fair.

It's not ideal having 40,000 unlicensed drivers driving around, but you can't expect people to wait 12 months for the privilege of getting a licence either.

no its 400,000 shur if it was 40,000 the back log would be clear in no time:rolleyes: when i was on a provisional not long ago i was stoped at lots of check points where they looked for my licence showed em my provisional checked tax insurance nct and waved me on.once you have all those things id say they couldnt be bothered doin ya.iv yet to hear of someone been done for driving unacompanied.and yes i am one of the people who applied for driving test straight away didnt stop them having me waiting a year and a half tho;)

hey on another note has anyone here ever been the cause of a crash on a provisional unacompanied how did that work out?

Wishbone Ash

snickerpuss wrote:

most probably are using it for ID.

I take the point that some people may be using the provisional licence for ID but it would be counter-productive as they will be wasting valuble potential experience utilising it as a form of ID as they will have to apply for a test at some stage before being granted another.

Car Mad

well i for one am sick of it they could easily clear the back log in a few months if they hired more testers.remember there was a big talk about this a few months ago (over 1000 tests canceled at very short notice) so the the testers could go to a meeting to decide wheather or not to bring in more testers (how is that going to clear backlog?) anyway they voted yes and what dos stupid cullen do hires 11 new testers i think around that anyway.and says he cant hire anymore because theres a cap on the amount of people that can work for the government (something along those lines)bull**** they have enough money to hire enough testers for the next 10 years if they wanted too.this country makes me sick Rant Over

Dr. Loon

Car Mad wrote:

well i for one am sick of it they could easily clear the back log in a few months if they hired more testers.remember there was a big talk about this a few months ago (over 1000 tests canceled at very short notice) so the the testers could go to a meeting to decide wheather or not to bring in more testers (how is that going to clear backlog?) anyway they voted yes and what dos stupid cullen do hires 11 new testers i think around that anyway.and says he cant hire anymore because theres a cap on the amount of people that can work for the government (something along those lines)bull**** they have enough money to hire enough testers for the next 10 years if they wanted too.this country makes me sick Rant Over

Punctuation please!

Car Mad

Its a Rant it does not need Punctuation !!

Gary ITR

Dr. Loon wrote:

Punctuation please!

This isn't After Hours... We don criticize spelling, grammer or punctuation around here!:D

IMO you should not be allowed have a provisional until you have applied for a test. Then if you fail twice or more you should not be allowed drive unaccompanied at all and that should be enforced

Car Mad

Onkle51 wrote:

This isn't After Hours... We don criticize spelling, grammer or punctuation around here!:D

IMO you should not be allowed have a provisional until you have applied for a test. Then if you fail twice or more you should not be allowed drive unaccompanied at all and that should be enforced

Ah but how would the gards know whos after failing there test twice and is driving unacompanied:D after all there is 400,000 provisional drivers on the road.

Gary ITR

It'd have to be marked on the license, maybe their license could be changed to a different colour after the second failure. I don't think it would be very fair to enforce the current law with the backlog thats there at the moment

DonJose

This country is a joke with the current licence scheme. The sooner this provisional licence scheme is stopped, the better for all our safety. I wish the guards would take more action and prosecute the SCUM who are breaking the law driving on provisional licences unaccompanied.

John R

Car Mad wrote:

well i for one am sick of it they could easily clear the back log in a few months if they hired more testers...

They have. The company that runs the NCT have been contracted to do tests until the backlog is cleared and they started testing candidates recently.

John R

Volvoboy wrote:

Well if your acting the bollox in the car, they'll pull ya faster than you can text ''Who did i wear the face off last nite?'', but if you drive an average car and you dont act the knob, the guards wont pay a blind bit of notice to you, been driving since feb 06 without L plates on, been throgh a load of check points and was'nt even asked to produce.

Hmm...

Volvoboy wrote:

Some mornings i drive in the bus lane if the traffic is bad or i'm running late for fas (I know it unfair on other drivers) I leave my house at
7am when the lanes come into effect, So from Artane through to Amiens St i would be driving straight through in all the bus lanes

Perhaps you should heed your own advice and not act the knob.

Ah but I see that you are an expert driver, a whole 10 months on a provisional so obviously you feel justified in ignoring the rules.

Lorax

DonJose wrote:

This country is a joke with the current licence scheme. The sooner this provisional licence scheme is stopped, the better for all our safety. I wish the guards would take more action and prosecute the SCUM who are breaking the law driving on provisional licences unaccompanied.

ahah ye spa, we're not scum, a gardai even said to me before it's a stupid law and laughed about it. Do u think the gardai should use all their resources to prosecute us 'scum' and ignore all the rapes, murders, burglaries, muggings, drugs, etc ? Yeah I can see that working mate. Also I'm getting a nissan skyline r33 turbo in about 4 months and am going to drive that unaccompanied on my 1st provisional how does that make u feel? angry? yeah? :rolleyes:

DonJose

Lorax wrote:

ahah ye spa, we're not scum, a gardai even said to me before it's a stupid law and laughed about it. Do u think the gardai should use all their resources to prosecute us 'scum' and ignore all the rapes, murders, burglaries, muggings, drugs, etc ? Yeah I can see that working mate. Also I'm getting a nissan skyline r33 turbo in about 4 months and am going to drive that unaccompanied on my 1st provisional how does that make u feel? angry? yeah? :rolleyes:

LOL it would take more than a little sh!te like you to make me angry. Now if you were speeding and you wrapped your boy racer car around my tree, that would piss me off Fair play to the guard letting inexperienced drivers who can't even reach the pedal drive away LOL

PS : Will your super duper car have big spoilers and those flames that make the car drive faster, ROFL

Lorax

DonJose wrote:

PS : Will your super duper car have big spoilers and those flames that make the car drive faster, ROFL

No, modifying the chip tho might give about 70 more BHP because there's limiters in place. u sound like u don't have a clue what you're talking about tho so I'm gonna ignore u.

Cerdito

My prediction for what might happen if/when the test waiting list gets down to around 8 weeks:

- 2nd provisional unaccompanied rule abolished
- Provisional licence to be abolished and replaced with a learner permit (legislation has already been created for this)
- Revokation of permit for a set period of time (3-6 months) for driving unaccompanied, not displaying L-plates, driving on motorway
- A penalty points offence of driving with L-plates on a full licence to be created (would greatly help the guards know who to stop)
- Restrictions on drivers who have newly passed their test (i.e. R-plate, zero alcohol, speed limit, curfew)

Of course, none of this will come in before the next election It's only going to get tougher for provisional licence holders. I would recommend anyone not waiting on a test to apply now, while the regulations are (relatively) loose.

MrPudding

Lorax wrote:

Do u think the gardai should use all their resources to prosecute us 'scum' and ignore all the rapes, murders, burglaries, muggings, drugs, etc ?

Ah, the old "why don't they go after real criminals chestnut.

The driving unaccompanied before sitting a test of competency is idiotic. It is criminally stupid. Unfortunately with the state of the waiting lists there is not much that can be done.

One thing that could be done, and really should be done, is enforcing the "you must be accompanied" rule after someone sits and fails the test. Surely no one thinks someone that fails a test should be allowed to continue to drive on there own? I mean you would have to be a complete fcukwit to think someone that.

Also I'm getting a nissan skyline r33 turbo in about 4 months and am going to drive that unaccompanied on my 1st provisional how does that make u feel? angry? yeah? :rolleyes:

I doubt it would make anyone angry. It would, however, confirm that you are an idiot and that you most likely think you are a much better driver than you actually are.

MrP

gary the great

I dont actually know if my provisional is my first or second, i had a provisional for my moped many years ago, but i think it was just an M licence. So does that make my current provsional my first or second (seeing as im now driving a car?)
My licence has 991 on it and not 999 as somebody pointed out earlier.

Stark

Lorax wrote:

u sound like u don't have a clue what you're talking about tho so I'm gonna ignore u.

On Soviet Boards, troll ignores you!

Cerdito wrote:

- Provisional licence to be abolished and replaced with a learner permit (legislation has already been created for this)

What's the difference?

gary_the_great wrote:

I dont actually know if my provisional is my first or second, i had a provisional for my moped many years ago, but i think it was just an M licence. So does that make my current provsional my first or second (seeing as im now driving a car?)
My licence has 991 on it and not 999 as somebody pointed out earlier.

991 means first provisional. Your licence should say "991 999". Looks like there might be a mixup (or a loophole) there. If it doesn't say 999, then you're probably legally entitled to drive unaccompanied despite being on your first provisional

Cerdito

Stark wrote:

What's the difference?

I don't know, it might just be semantics. Looking at it another way, it could be a tactic to enforce the accompanied rule. If the change is made from a licence to a permit, a learner driver would effectively not be licensed to drive.

The learners permit may act as an auxiliary to the full licence of the accompanied driver. If this driver is not present, the learner is driving without a license, and therefore subject to the punitive measures accorded to this offence.

I found the following quote from Minister Cullen from the Irish Times on May 31st 2006 on the most recent Road Traffic Bill:

Irish Times wrote:

"We are including enabling provisions with regard to learner permits," as a prelude to a reform of driver licensing, Mr Cullen said. This will prohibit provisional licence holders from driving unaccompanied.

However, these changes are dependent on reducing the waiting list of 400,000 provisional drivers seeking to do a test.

Stark

Driving uncommpanied on a provisional licence also invalidates your licence. So there'd be no difference between a provisional and a learner permit in that regard. Looks like they're to make it look like they're doing something without actually doing something.

Lorax

I don't get this it invalidates your license and invalidates your insurance. I've been stopped by the gards about 4-5 times in the last 3 months and all times have been driving unaccompanied on my 1st prov, I have insurance/nct on my car. All I got was a warning and sometimes not even that. I can be pretty sure if I had no insurance on the car they wouldn't have been so quick to let me off, they would have seized the car and arrested me. Same applies if I had no license. So it's complete bull**** that driving unaccompanied is invalidates your license or insurance.

Stark

The gardaí and insurance companies overlook it, but it was ruled in a court of law that driving unaccompanied invalidated your licence. Driving without a licence and driving without insurance are seperate things despite what people say. The first is generally considered a minor offence, the second is considered a major offence. As long as your insurance company is prepared to honour a claim made against you, you're insured. On a minority of insurance policies, you are actually uninsured if you drive unaccompanied.

Seth Brundle

Your insurance is valid even without an accompanying fully licenced driver. You can be done for driving on an invalid licence or somethinglike that.
I recall reading an article where the IIF (Irish Insurance Federation) confirmed this. They did state how they were also going after prov drivers who had succesful claims made against them, in a bid to recover their costs.

ballooba

Car Mad wrote:

hey on another note has anyone here ever been the cause of a crash on a provisional unacompanied how did that work out?

My sister was in a crash with some snobby bitch* in Donnybrook one day while on a provisional.

The gardai were two cars back from us and saw the whole thing.

The gardai pulled up and the other party started to ask if my sister had her full licence.

The female garda politely told her to be quiet that they had witnessed the accident and it was obvious that she was at fault.

As it happened one of the people in our car had a full licence so my sis probably would have been OK.

* She was really arrogant and it seemed like she might have had a few glasses of wine over lunch.

layke

So Moral of the story is regardless of what the law says you do not need a Full license to operate a vehicle.

DonJose, I know you're prolly a troll but i'll take a chance: Just out of interest what do you drive? Were you born with a full license? Ever drive unaccompanied?

Please enthrall me with stories of how high and mighty you are?

Wishbone Ash

Onkle51 wrote:

This isn't After Hours... We don criticize spelling, grammer or punctuation around here!:D

Or even grammar .

DonJose

layke wrote:

Just out of interest what do you drive? Were you born with a full license? Ever drive unaccompanied??

VW, no and no

E@gle.

snickerpuss wrote:

Yeah but also alot of people get provisionals and then don't drive. I got mine just under 2 years ago so i'll be on my 2nd next month but i've only started learning in the last month. So not all 300,000 are driving around, most probably are using it for ID.

yeah i agree when i was in school friends of mine were just getting there provisional for the sake of it

topher182

afew friends of mine have been stopped at random stops and they have got away fine! i wouldnt worry about it! i dnt:D