Help of a novice in FT of MTT

muller_x

Hi

just a quick question

Ur at the FT of a MMT
7 left and ur chip leader with about 84000,
Next biggest stack is just on ur left with 62000,
Blinds are 3000 and 6000 and going around fast
Folded to u with 66 on small blind,only big blind left
Is push and hope for the best your only option here?

thanks for any comments

marius

muller_x wrote:

Hi

just a quick question

Ur at the FT of a MMT
7 left and ur chip leader with about 84000,
Next biggest stack is just on ur left with 62000,
Blinds are 3000 and 6000 and going around fast
Folded to u with 66 on small blind,only big blind left
Is push and hope for the best your only option here?

thanks for any comments

I deffo dont push here, you are comfortable and will probably only get called by a better hand or a race ( 50-50 ) - which you have no need to get involved in.
If I am confidant of outplaying him postflop I might just call and see what the flop brings.

ollyk1

How many chips does the BB have?

Has he being playing tight or has he been defending his blinds? What's been your normal raise to date? What's your image like? Have you showed down a few ropey hands or has it been quality all the way.

I find at the FT of a live tournie that your image is probably well established with most of the table so its very important to be aware of that and adjust accordingly.

luckylucky

muller_x wrote:

Hi

just a quick question

Ur at the FT of a MMT
7 left and ur chip leader with about 84000,
Next biggest stack is just on ur left with 62000,
Blinds are 3000 and 6000 and going around fast
Folded to u with 66 on small blind,only big blind left
Is push and hope for the best your only option here?

thanks for any comments

I think you're risking too much here for not enough gain, I mean if you really had a good hand like QQ or something would you really go all-in, a more normal type raise would be more scarier in this spot and your opponent will probably fold a lot of hands here that he would have had the right odds to look you up if he knew what you had. Of course you will often get called here and be put in a tricky spot on the flop but such is poker.

I don't like only calling either, you have a reasonable hand here that's probably ahead but obviously that could change so easily after the flop, also if the big blind raises your call, you won't know whether he is acting on the weakness of the call or if he has a genuine hand, I'd really be quite happy not to mess around here try to take the big blind and get on with the next hand.

If the blinds were double or maybe even a bit less than double what you said I think yes it's automatic all-in then.

ianmc38

"Pushing and hoping for the best" is never a good option.

accensi0n

If he has been very tight I would raise to 15000. (Not because of the hand we have but because of his image and the situation)

If he has been very loose I raise to 20000 and call a push.


If he seems to be inbetween, loose in certain situations, tight but sometimes does weird things then it gets a bit trickier.

ligger

ianmc38 wrote:

"Pushing and hoping for the best" is never a good option.

Since when??

gocall01

2 options I go with here:

1. Raise to 15k, result - he folds, calls or pushes.
He Folds - you take his BB.
He Calls - you see flop and go from there.
He Pushes - you have no need of getting into a pissing match with the 2nd stack, so fold.

2. Call for 3K, result - he checks his option, raises.
He Checks - you see flop and go from there.
He raises - your action depends on size of raise but you will be OOP preflop so probably fold.

That's my ABC poker, some more experienced players will have some intertesting alternatives I am sure.
(I would go for option 1 BTW.)

luckylucky

ollyk1 wrote:

How many chips does the BB have?
QUOTE]

the BB is the guy to his left so I presume thats the guy with second biggest stack.

Anyway yeah if the BB had a much smaller stack, it's an automatic push here for me.

califano

Your man has 10 bb's left, pushing is fine. It just doesnt look very graceful thats all but d'worry about that.

delanec8

Instapush. Guy has 10bbs. You only have 14 and the blinds, you said, are going up fast so just push

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

ntlbell

LuckyLloyd wrote:

Ship it. His calling range should be very, very narrow to that play. Wheras, if you make it 15,000 to go his range to push back over the top of you is much wider - and you can't really call. So stick it in.

Obviously, I presume this thread has been inspired by the fact the guy had AA or KK and crippled you...:rolleyes:

You and your love for 66 :rolleyes:

muller_x

the bb is the guy on my left with 62000,
the table hasnt being playing that long,so dont really have an image for him.
I havent robbed him at all.as for my own image, ive only played 2 hands

1.I called the bb from the sb and then the folded to his raise of 4xbbs.

2. i had 88 in the small blind,folded around to me ,i made it 24000,he pushed ,i called,first card out was an 8 of diamonds,followed by 4 more diamonds...split pot.

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

muller_x

sorry forgot to say he had kk in the hand with my 88

luckylucky

delanec8 wrote:

Instapush. Guy has 10bbs. You only have 14 and the blinds, you said, are going up fast so just push

Hmm, I know the move probably has EV+ but do you really want to effectively risk jeopardising your tournament with 66 for a comparatively small gain, especially if the BB is in any way loose.

Well I guess it's just differing points of view on it, I prefer to risk less and also when you do have a genuine top hand a normal raise won't stand out so much and you have much better chance of stacking the BB if he does decide to get jiggy with it.

peeko

muller_x wrote:

the bb is the guy on my left with 62000,
the table hasnt being playing that long,so dont really have an image for him.
I havent robbed him at all.as for my own image, ive only played 2 hands

1.I called the bb from the sb and then the folded to his raise of 4xbbs.

2. i had 88 in the small blind,folded around to me ,i made it 24000,he pushed ,i called,first card out was an 8 of diamonds,followed by 4 more diamonds...split pot.

what did he call your push with?

delanec8

luckylucky wrote:

Hmm, I know the move probably has EV+ but do you really want to effectively risk jeopardising your tournament with 66 for a comparatively small gain, especially if the BB is in any way loose.

Well I guess it's just differing points of view on it, I prefer to risk less and also when you do have a genuine top hand a normal raise won't stand out so much and you have much better chance of stacking the BB if he does decide to get jiggy with it.

The stacks are too shallow here to get tricky IMO. The chip leader with 7 left has 14BBs. Its crapshoot time and not pushing here would be bad IMO. The BB is 2nd in chips and will not want to get knocked out 7th. He has a pretty small range of hands he will call with here.

As far as picking up a monster and not getting full value, you are not likely to pick one up and by the time you do the blinds may be so big that any normal raise will probably be close to half your stack and will equate to pushing anyway.

luckylucky

delanec8 wrote:

As far as picking up a monster and not getting full value, you are not likely to pick one up and by the time you do the blinds may be so big that any normal raise will probably be close to half your stack and will equate to pushing anyway.

That is a fair point. I think the situation is quite player dependent as well and I guess the stacks are shallow enough not to rule out the all-in but I think they are also deep enough not to make it automatic imho.

muller_x

pretty mixed views

I pushed by the way and got called by 77,nothing hit and I was left crippled

I pushed the rest in with 10-10 ,called by KJ on BB,K hit and I was offf to bed,
but kept going over it in my head

so was wondering all night if i had done the wrong thing and I said ye'd sort it out for me

But i guess theres no definitive answer

thanks for replies

cardshark202

You did nothing wrong. You were just unlucky. You should be doing your best to get the chips in here. So its either a push or a raise to say 16-18k and call a push. However, if you make a standard raise, you cannot fold practically any flop.

luckylucky

I know there are a lot of good players here advocating the all-in here, but also there are a lot of good ones against it too.

Though in this particualr hand while I still don't really like the push there is a case for it for sure. Though I do think people have got far too willing to push borderline hands, since Harrington on Hold'em was published more and more people are doing this, and you know what the effect of it is, more and more people are calling these pushes.

Poor loose players will do it with 22 and Ax and even good players will look you up with decent pocket pairs, AK, AQ rightly knowing they are probably ahead so your fold equity in the post HOH real world is nowhere near as good as described in the book.

After I read HOH I too started pushing when I had a reasonable hand like 66 as soon as the stacks were at 10 x bb, I'll admit I've never done well at multis whether that's due to variance (I seem to be a master at near bubble exits) which is huge in them, or lack of patience near the end etc etc. but in STTs I used to do well, when I applied HOH to my game I did crap, not saying it's not a good book but getting too willing to go all-in for me in STTs was a losing play, when I cut that out I went back to winning ways.

I do think this particular case it can be justified as he's only got the BB left to act but I still think it's not automatic, but I agree it's close enough decision for him not to feel bad about the play.