Self defence?

Plug

Right it's like this, if someone attacked you, broke into your home, robbed you etc. What do you think you should be allowed to do? Personally I think killing someone is going over board but a beating, no *looks at padraig Nally* My main question is do you think self defence should be legal for yourself and the defence of your properety?
And please don't start talking about Padraig Nally as this topic might be locked;)

SoupyNorman

Well considering I was a victim of a robbery (was in my girlfriends by blind luck). Had I been in bed at the time (I lock the bedroom door when I go to bed) and woke up to someone kicking in my door (which is how they got into my room) I would simply reach behind my headboard, pull out the 7in hunting knife I keep there and stick it into their wherever, WITHOUT hesitation...

Black Swan

There are complex legal issues in self defense. Should you be interested, these have been discussed in detail several times under Sports in the Self Defense and Martial Arts forum.

Now that I have issued this disclaimer, personally, if someone breaks into my home and I catch them, it would be in their best interests to have an updated last will and testament.

whiskeyman

Plug wrote:

My main question is do you think self defence should be legal for yourself and the defence of your properety?

I'm pretty sure it is "legal", however, within reason.... and depending on the circumstances...

padi89

Without a doubt ,id have no problem with kicking 8 shades of ****e out of a burglar.

SoupyNorman

Its all about "reasonable force", Did person A apply reasonable force to restrain Person B (which in some cases can include killing)

Ruu_Old

Plug wrote:

Right it's like this, if someone attacked you, broke into your home, robbed you etc. What do you think you should be allowed to do? Personally I think killing someone is going over board but a beating, no *looks at padraig Nally* My main question is do you think self defence should be legal for yourself and the defence of your properety?
And please don't start talking about Padraig Nally as this topic might be locked

Yes, lets get it straight from the start, one mention of the Padraig Nally case(which is ongoing) and I'm throwing a padlock on this. I'm not even sure it should be here or not so it can stay here, I'll leave it in the hands of the other mods here.

Carry on.

JustCoz

Self- defence already is legal! If you kill somebody in defending yourself with a single blow you will not go to jail. if you use excessive force then you are likely to face manslaughter. It all depends on the circumstances but you are legally allowed to defend yourself and your property

Plug

JustCoz wrote:

Self- defence already is legal! If you kill somebody in defending yourself with a single blow you will not go to jail. if you use excessive force then you are likely to face manslaughter. It all depends on the circumstances but you are legally allowed to defend yourself and your property

I personally think thats a bit sad, one blow is not enough to stop a theif. I think its about time someone made a change in the law. What makes me sick is the fact that down the country old people in there houses getting bet up and robbed by thugs and nothing being done about it. Bertie Ahern and the rest of them should wake up at this day and age:rolleyes:

Cake Fiend

"He just kept coming at me, officer, I had to keep smacking him..."

Plug

Cake Fiend wrote:

"He just kept coming at me, officer, I had to keep smacking him..."

steveland?

I think it'd be reasonable to beat the hell out of them if you were woken up to the sound of your door being kicked in and someone charging into your room.

You'd have no guarantee that hitting them once or twice would stop them coming at you.

If you heard someone breaking in downstairs though I think it'd be reasonable to grab your mobile and call 999 stat. If you have a lock on your door lock it and hope they don't get in before the gardai get there, if they do then you should be able to knock seven shades of **** out of them in order to ensure your own safety.

It's going to look a lot worse for the thief if he's caught red handed in your house by the gardai and you can testify in court of your fear and how you had to lock yourself in your room...

I'd imagine there's some sort of law governing you feeling like a prisoner in your own house (ie it being unsafe for you to leave the confines of one room)

Chucky the tree

steveland? wrote:

If you heard someone breaking in downstairs though I think it'd be reasonable to grab your mobile and call 999 stat. If you have a lock on your door lock it and hope they don't get in before the gardai get there, if they do then you should be able to knock seven shades of **** out of them in order to ensure your own safety.

If there making an effort to get to you then it would acceptable to defend yourself. However if you hear a noise downstairs and look see what it is and see a burglar pinching your stuff and he see's you and makes for the door but you grab him and do him in, then you should be done for assualt or whatever.


Personnaly i couldnt kill someone for just breaking into my house and trying to pinch my TV.

Unfortunatly i am no where near as hard as the rest of the internet warriors we have here.

P.S as someone pointed out self defence is legal, so get rid of the poll.

Plug

Chucky the tree wrote:

P.S as someone pointed out self defence is legal, so get rid of the poll.

Is that why normal people are getting sued by these gurriers?
Its like this if some breaks into your house and they fall and get injured, your the one responsible the same goes for hitting them, therefore self defence is illegal.

coyote6

One of the pivotal points in any "self defense" scenario is the point at which it transistions into being punitive. Once you've defended yourself, a third party or property, and stopped the active aggression you must stop and not punish the person further. This understanding may make the whole concept more palatable to the average person who may believe that the "self defense types" just want to stab, shoot or beat the crap out of someone.

So I give a very hearty "Yes" to proportional, measured self-defense! It's a "natural law" thing.

Silverfish

I thought there was a law stating if an intruder entered what is defined as 'sleeping quarters' (i.e upstairs in most homes) then you are allowed to use what you may deem as any reasonable force - even if that means you severely injure/kill them?

Or am I in the states or the UK or wherever again with my laws.

Chucky the tree

Plug wrote:

Is that why normal people are getting sued by these gurriers?
Its like this if some breaks into your house and they fall and get injured, your the one responsible the same goes for hitting them, therefore self defence is illegal.

being sued for what? Any links or even tell us what the case is? I find it hard to believe a burglar, who lets say tripped up on the strairs managed to sue the home owner.

Plug

Trust me! Read the local papers and find out;)
You should try it:
1)Go into someones house trip and do damage to yourself and sue, thats one of the ways travellers get money. It probly happened to someone from boards.

Chucky the tree

Anyone else confirm this?

Hagar

Do whatever it takes. Let the courts sort it out later.
To quote a great man, "I would rather be tried by 12 men than carried by 6"

coyote6

Wouldn't it be nice if the skangers had something to fear? If they knew that their conscious, premeditated intrusion into another person's property for nefarious purposes could cost them their very lives. It may cause them to think twice methinks.

How nice it would be to have a culture of common sense and not one ruled by the ivory towered egg-heads. Your average person doesn't have to think much about the obvious, self-evident right to defend one's self and family.

Feral Mutant

bravestarr082 wrote:

Well considering I was a victim of a robbery (was in my girlfriends by blind luck). Had I been in bed at the time (I lock the bedroom door when I go to bed) and woke up to someone kicking in my door (which is how they got into my room) I would simply reach behind my headboard, pull out the 7in hunting knife I keep there and stick it into their wherever, WITHOUT hesitation...

Right, no more surprise parties for you. On that point, I would hesitate depending on if I could be sure they intended to rob/hurt me and if I could take them. I would also hesitate to attack first.

Cake Fiend wrote:

"He just kept coming at me, officer, I had to keep smacking him..."

No you can't use that one anymore, now you have to "thin out their numbers" or was that hunting? *shrug*

bug

Plug wrote:

Right it's like this, if someone attacked you, broke into your home, robbed you etc. What do you think you should be allowed to do? Personally I think killing someone is going over board but a beating, no *looks at padraig Nally* My main question is do you think self defence should be legal for yourself and the defence of your properety?
And please don't start talking about Padraig Nally as this topic might be locked;)

you should be allowed to have a stun gun at home. Once outside the home they should be deemed illegal, I don't fancy beating someone senseless, but if they break into my gaf I should have the right to electrocute them if they get so close, and throw them out of the front garden and go back to sleep.
After waking me up I should at least have the right to shunt a few volts through them even if I dont press charges. Takes me long enough to nod off.

coyote6

The whole notion that a person could sue you for getting injured after entering your home illegally is appalling. The creative among us would deposit said person in the boot, drop them into the Liffey and bid them Bon Voyage as they drift toward the sea!

Dave!

Maccy D says he wants to change the law on intruders to allow home owners to defend themselves...

http://www.rte.ie/news/2006/1121/law.html?rss

I think if someone breaks into your home with the intent of stealing or injuring a member of your family then they should be granted no protection.

Rabies

There is a case going on here in New Zealand right now. Managed to catch a bit of it on the news today.
A guy tried to rob a gun shop with a knife as a weapon. The owner pulled out a gun and shot him.
The owner is possibly going to be charged with having a loaded gun and shooting his attacker.
Nothing was mentioned in the news about the robber getting charged with his crime.

Thrill

JustCoz wrote:

Self- defence already is legal! If you kill somebody in defending yourself with a single blow you will not go to jail. if you use excessive force then you are likely to face manslaughter. It all depends on the circumstances but you are legally allowed to defend yourself and your property

Is it true or not, that if a boxer or a karate expert kills a guy while defending himself he could be tried for manslaughter, excessive force or not?

Wacker

thrill wrote:

Is it true or not, that if a boxer or a karate expert kills a guy while defending himself he could be tried for manslaughter, excessive force or not?

I believe he can actually be done for assault with a deadly weapon.

coyote6

thrill wrote:

Is it true or not, that if a boxer or a karate expert kills a guy while defending himself he could be tried for manslaughter, excessive force or not?

I think I've heard where a particularly flatulent person can be charged with murder with a WMD!;)

Ruu_Old

Plug wrote:

Trust me! Read the local papers and find out;)
You should try it:
1)Go into someones house trip and do damage to yourself and sue, thats one of the ways travellers get money. It probly happened to someone from boards.

Less of the traveller bashing already please, lets not add anymore fuel to the fire so to speak.

CathyMoran

If someone was trying to kill me or my family ore friends I would fight back, otherwise no but I would still try to injur them not kill them.

Splinter

If someone comes into my home with the intent to remove my belongings or worse yet do damage to me or my family i wont try to scare them away, i will stop them and make sure they dont move til the guards get there, by whatever i need to do. They have entered my home, (your own safe haven if you will) and they want to take what isnt theirs, not a hope of me backing away and ensuring i dont hurt them too much, ok, there is a line, i wouldnt kill but i'd be very bloody tempted....sorry just my .02c

Dooom

Uh, apologies if this's vaguely off topic, but I've just been thinking about that breaking into your house and falling over to sue you crap.
I've heard it countless times, and I've no doubts that it can be done. But if they did drag you to court over it, can you not just point out that they'd broken into your house and were trespassing on your property?

OT, Self defence ftw. Anyone breaks in will get a decent introduction to Mr. Baseball Bat(man).

Feral Mutant

Rabies wrote:

A guy tried to rob a gun shop with a knife as a weapon. The owner pulled out a gun and shot him.

Who the hell wouldn't see that coming? I can only hope that his plan all along was to get shot and sue the guy because otherwise that's a whole new level of stupidity.

Ickle Magoo

I voted in certain circumstances...

If a burgler came into the house & I could get myself & my family out then I'd just do that. There is no way I would risk life & limb, or let my husband, for a material posession that is fully insured. On the other hand, if someone came in & attacked us or were between us & the kids, I imagine we would throw everything at them & then some...

rubadub

I wouldnt agree with killing them but you should be allowed to render them defenceless which could include shatterring their kneecaps and all the bones in their hands. If this happened more robberies would go down, it is not some vicitmless crime, people are fearing for their lives, why should some guy who went to school in templemoore legally be allowed to shoot somebody dead in self defence while I cannot beat somebody across the head which could also cause death.

I often wonder what legal issues there are about safety in peoples homes? is there any, like in factories?
e.g. could I leave my collection of bear traps under all the windows in my home? if a burgular bled to death am I at fault?

Hagar

rubadub wrote:

e.g. could I leave my collection of bear traps under all the windows in my home? if a burgular bled to death am I at fault?

I don't think so, but our Dobermann used to sleep in a basket under the kitchen window and one night... oh how we laughed.:D

dori_dormer

Plug wrote:

Is that why normal people are getting sued by these gurriers?
Its like this if some breaks into your house and they fall and get injured, your the one responsible the same goes for hitting them, therefore self defence is illegal.

i heard a few years back that a robber came in a kitchen sky light and fell and landed on a knife and he sued the owner of the house and won!

passive

i heard a few years back that a robber came in a kitchen sky light and fell and landed on a knife and he sued the owner of the house and won!

Liar Liar...

i.e:
Greta: Mr. Reede, several years ago a friend of mine had a burglar on her roof, a burglar. He fell through the kitchen skylight, landed on a cutting board, on a butcher's knife, cutting his leg. The burglar sued my friend, he sued my friend. And because of guys like you *he won*. My friend had to pay the burglar $6,000. Is that justice?
Fletcher: No!
[Greta looks pleased, but then Fletcher continues]
Fletcher: I'd have got him ten.
[Greta stalks off, appalled]

Dooom

dori_dormer wrote:

i heard a few years back that a robber came in a kitchen sky light and fell and landed on a knife and he sued the owner of the house and won!

For what? Bruises sustained during the fall?

ba dum tsshhh...

Red Hand

Hmmm if someone broke into my home, I would be a little peeved and might just take it out on him. As for the legality of defending your home against attackers, *shrugs*.

Cake Fiend

Hey, they can only sue if they survive.

Tar.Aldarion

I think it should be quite legal to hurt them a lot.

Marksie

thrill wrote:

Is it true or not, that if a boxer or a karate expert kills a guy while defending himself he could be tried for manslaughter, excessive force or not?

Yeah.. when i was doing taekwondo we were told that you had to warn em first as you are judged to have a deadly weapon when you reach a certain level.