Multiple Sclerosis (MS) - Effects Of "Other" Treatments

User45701

What is the reality of this?
I have read many many different things on this and i am still unclear on what exactly is the medical community's official view on this.

There are some people (more in the US) that use wasps/bees,
To the best of my knowledge the sting causes the bodies anti-bodys or some sort of internal defense to activate and results in a decrease in the illness progress.

There is ofcarse marijuana which was the reason i created this thread.
Should it be prescription for those that suffer from MS? I know that there is a "blind eye" turned to patients smoking it in at least two Irish hospitals. From what i know it seems to do allot more good than bad and helps ease the symptoms quite a bit.

If this topic of marijuana for MS suffers is not acceptable to the MOD then of coarse lock it, but i would like a PM or a response telling me why it is being locked.

tbh

I can't speak for the other mods, but I have no problem with Marijuana being discussed as a treatment for MS but if it starts to get into the usual "legalise it / burn the junkies" thread I'll lock it. I'd be interested if anyone has any scientific information on it's effects, and first (or maybe second)-hand experiences.

Please remember that this is not a medical board - we can't and won't recommend any treatment, but I'd be interested to hear peoples experiences.

fair enough?

User45701

K Kool well i will say that it defiantly does work for two people who i know or to be more correct does have positive effects and relives the symptoms.
Also i know that certain Irish medical facility's turn a complete blind eye to MS suffers smoking on premises. Its not legal but if people with medical training turn a blind eye to it, to me that means that it should be a legal treatment for MS suffers, this would also increase the potency of it to medicinal grade which should (in my theory anyway) reduce symptoms more.

While on my many trips to Amsterdam (seven or eight) i have encountered two people, one elderly Irish couple and one single middle aged American woman both of which moved there because it is legal and they said it has positive effects.

So to sumerise [OK just to jump in here, i am getting sick of firefox 2.0`s spell check because its all american and some words i know i have spelt right and its saying there wrong, i mean sumerise is that how you spell it? cause americans thow in a Z is it sum-a-rise? i dont know anyway i just wish there was a Irl/UK english spell check in Firefox]
Anyway back on topic,
I personally know two people who say that it helps and have also met three people (two of them , the husband of the elderly couple obviously just moved with his wife) so three people who completely changed there way of life moved country because they know that this has positive effects.

I feel quite strongly that the positive effects of marijuana on MS should be taken seriously by governments but because many governments view it as a illegal drug people seem to be afraid to bring the subject up, I also wonder if there is some fear among medical personal that they may lose there jobs if they openly support it.

r3nu4l

From my own perspective,

There is a lot of research going on looking at the positive effects of using marijuana to treat MS and what scientists are really trying to do is identify the exact components that fuel this 'benefit' for MS (and other) sufferers.

It's hard for the medical community to be seen advocating use of cannabis 'as is' simply because then they must advocate that smoking, and all the nasty associated carcinogens are 'okay in this case', leaving them open to ridicule.

Also, it is well known that long-term use of cannabis effects different people in different ways. I've seen that with my own eyes. Some long-term users suffer depression and increased risk of schizophrenia - the medical and scientific community would like to be able to remove these risks. Also, cannabis use tends to produce a high, leaving the user unable to do many things they would otherwise be able to do, again, if the 'benefit' components of cannabis were known and their interactions fully understood it might be possible to chemically synthesize a component that provides the benefit without the high.

I think the prevailing view (for medical scientists) is that there are obvious benefits but these are probably provided by only one or two chemicals in the cannabis mix. If they could be isolated, proven safe and efficacious, capsulated and sold legally support would be total.

Until then I think the 'turning a blind eye' system will hold. If however, there was a pill produced I think you'd find that all medics would strongly disapprove of joint rolling

EDIT: Just so you know that this is being given some serious thought, have a read of these:

1) This
2) This
3) This

Finally visit PubMed and type in your query to see a list of papers researching the subject. You will be able to read only abstracts for most articles but full papers for others.

FranknFurter

From the research Ive done it looks like it could be a valuable treatment that is being overlooked for the sake of political correctness.
I would certainly try it if it were available to me as my meds are only half effective at best, leaving me in constant pain and depressed.

I would buy it to try even illegally however thats a luxury I cannot afford financially and even if I could I have no way of sourcing it from my home.

I dont see the problem regarding legalising somthing less harmful than alcohol, and as for those who link mental health problems for some, remember that there are more mental health issues associated with alcohol than there ever would be with this.
(And smoking it is not the only method of using it).

B

r3nu4l

FranknFurter has covered two very relevant points here:

Political correctness: This is a big issue but as you'll see from PubMed, scientists and medics are trying hard to break these barriers through increased understanding of the drug and also by determining safety levels.

Mental health and alcohol: I totally agree, this is a major issues for some people (I don't have figures comparing incidence of mental illness attributed to alcohol versus cannabis use so won't compare those). In Ireland, alcohol has been available for a long, long time and is an accepted part of our culture...whereas cannabis is only relatively new in Ireland and still frowned upon by a large part of the community, this may or may not change.

Smoking it is the most common method of using cannabis and I imagine that many (not all) medicinal-cannabis users, if given the choice of a pill without the high or a joint with the high, would choose the joint each time.

All drugs, licensed or otherwise have side-effects and you will often see warnings that people with heart problems, or who are pregnant etc should consult a doctor before taking...I can envisage a day where enough will be known to allow doctors say that certain people should avoid medicinal-cannabis while others should use it. It may come down to dosing levels etc.

Either way, despite any number of 'promising' results, a lot more study has to be done to clarify efficacy and safety.

User45701

Thanks r3nu4l & FranknFurter for your responses

This is such a complicated subject that i don't even know where i stand on it. what you said about it effecting different people in different ways. My ideal way of dealing with it is some sort of test that can tell you how it will effect you and then let the person decide themselves if they want to use it recreationly.

I do know two people who both suffer from MS both have completely different symptoms one has trouble with the right leg and the other has trouble with the left eye, but cannabis helps both of them and relives there symptoms so since there are plenty of other experimental drugs out there that have to be and are being tested why not count cannabis among them?
Just tell them that the treatment is unproven and side effects are unknown but believed to be schizophrenia and possible depression (on depression ive noticed that in most if not all cases of normel not just MS related cannabis use there would have been depression previously before the cannabis use started)

Schizophrenia also does not occur in everyone who has used cannabis and as i said above if there is already depression then that is not an effect that one needs to be worried about.

As you said FranknFurter smoking is not the only method of use. There is a device called a volcano that simply heats the substance which is placed inside a special container, a bag is attached to the container which then fills up with pure THC, A "mouthpiece" is attacked to the bag also (this is kinda hard to explain sorry)anyway this MAY still cause Schizophrenia and depression but there is no tobacco or other impurities, after use you discard the substance which is still there, you see the device only heats it enough to vaporise the THC which then ends up in the bag.

As you said tho finance is a problem the device itself costs 350+ euro. It does come with a good guarantee tho, from my visits to Amsterdam and talking with people who live and work there the device almost never fails. A cafe i regularly go to there i was talking to the person who works there who to my surprise said he suffers from glockcoma which was why he took a job in Amsterdam (actually thats the 3rd person i have met who has moved to Amsterdam because of illness) Anyway im sorry i am rambling the point of mentioning this guy was that he works in the cafe and he said that that cafes volcano has been switched on for 3 years now and it still runs fine.

To me if people who suffer from these illness are willing to make such a life change and to move and live in a different country and i personly know two people who suffer from MS and that is just me, just one person.

It seems to as you said be mainly political reasons that this treatment is not being openly explored.

At the moment in Canada they have a very large political party that supports legislation, (they even give out free paraphernalia) and i have been reading that in Las vagas which has some of the toughest laws (If youve seen fear and loathing in las vagas you have seen the big sign outside vagas) "Dont gamble with majuranna, one J 20 years"
That is a but too much but vagas is actually looking to bring its cannabis laws to some sort of vote/revision where they are considering a type of decrinilasation - it seems a bit far fetched and will probbley never get this far but there is being some progress being made.

I am in work now and don't have time to read those links now i will have a look later thanks.