Card dead in a cash game

phantom_lord

Just back from a horrendous session at the fitz, basically dropped over 900 over 8/9hours.

Early on I ran kings into a set of jacks for a buy-in, unlucky in a few big pots, lose another shoved pot, limp/call small raises and miss over and over blah blah blah, and top-up continuously.

My question is, where do you draw the line. If you are on a table of deep stacked muppets surely it makes sense to top up so you're reasonably deep?
Should the fact you haven't seen a premium hand/hit a flop in several hours stop you?

In that 8/9hour session I won about 10 pots, none of them bigger than about 40bbs. I just couldn't hit a hand.

I was moved to the main table and had two guys to my right who had 1k+ stacks, and 300+pots were being one by middle pair and other such muck, so naturally I tried to see as many cheap flops with reasonable holdings against them, but after a few hours of this and missing over and over I was just hemorrhaging chips.

If you're card dead in a tournament you can ship it, shake your head and go home, does anyone after a couple hours in cash game give up when card death occurs?

bit pissed it messed with my stats so much, my winrate dropped from 50+/hr to 38. :mad:

phantom_lord

I remember saying in the thread about the 2k loan that I couldn't imagine having a 10 buy-in down swing. so young and naive back then...:rolleyes:

Lafortezza

900 in a live session is about 3 or 4 buyins in the Fitz game from what I remember. Unusual given the standard but not uncommon if things aren't working for you.
I usually have about 2 or 3 buy-ins for live cash games, I find if it's going badly then I'm not enjoying it and go home/to the pub.

If a table is profitable then stay.
If you're playing badly, the table is too tough or you're tired/in bad form then leave.

phantom_lord

I wasn't playing badly, maybe a little loose pf but nothing overly bad, and the table was certainly profitable, I just couldn't get a piece of it. Nothing was wrong, just couldn't hit. anyone take that as cue to leave, or do they grind through it?

pok3rplaya

phantom_lord wrote:

Should the fact you haven't seen a premium hand/hit a flop in several hours stop you?

Indepndant events blah blah....

phantom_lord wrote:

so naturally I tried to see as many cheap flops with reasonable holdings against them, but after a few hours of this and missing over and over I was just hemorrhaging chips.

Playing like this is a huge leak if you're not 300bb deep yourself.

phantom_lord wrote:

If you're card dead in a tournament you can ship it, shake your head and go home, does anyone after a couple hours in cash game give up when card death occurs?

Leave if you play bad/feel bad. Play if you run bad. You can't stop a downswing by leaving the table.

phantom_lord

pok3rplaya wrote:

Indepndant events blah blah....

Yeah, that's what I was thinking, but as I got deeper and deeper in the hole it wasn't feeling like the right thing to do...

Playing like this is a huge leak if you're not 300bb deep yourself.

Meh, against chip donating muppets it should be profitable, esp in position, don't think you need to be that deep, but it would certainly help.

Leave if you play bad/feel bad. Play if you run bad. You can't stop a downswing by leaving the table.

what about when u feel bad because you run bad...

pok3rplaya

phantom_lord wrote:

Meh, against chip donating muppets it should be profitable, esp in position, don't think you need to be that deep, but it would certainly help.

I don't really know the game dynamic so possibly, I still believe it's close though.

phantom_lord wrote:

what about when u feel bad because you run bad...

That = feeling bad so leave.

phantom_lord

pok3rplaya wrote:

That = feeling bad so leave.

Hmm, I dunno if being pissed at having to auto-fold for an hour is a reason to leave a profitable table. Shouldn't really affect me too much. I dunno.

I'm off to sleep.

pok3rplaya

phantom_lord wrote:

Hmm, I dunno if being pissed at having to auto-fold for an hour is a reason to leave a profitable table. Shouldn't really affect me too much. I dunno.

I'm off to sleep.

Well obv I can't tell exactly how you are feeling, I'm me not you. If you feel like it's affecting your play then leave. If not, then it's profitable to stay. It's up to you to make the judgement.

johnnysmurfman

Do you bankroll? My guess is that you don't have a strict bankroll. If you have a strict fund for poker only then days like this become so much easier to deal with, you don't think so much about how much you're losing in an individual session, you think more about the overall bankroll. I started a new bankroll on 1st December after my old one ended. During the old 3 month bankroll I had big losing sessions like you described but I didn't panic, I just played my game and didn't feel the need to win the money back that night or soon afterwards, each game just became part of a 4 month poker session and the beats became easier to handle because the money wasn't needed for anything else, it was just poker money and I kept telling myself that it would come back if I just kept playing well, and it did. My advice to anyone whose head is wrecked by bad play/bad beats is to bankroll strictly and use poker money for nothing except poker. I wouldn't even buy a bag of crisps from my bankroll, it's not my money, it's poker money. I know that sounds silly but it just becomes a way of thinking after a while.

smurph

I think basically you focused in on the two deep stacks who would stay with middle pair etc., You can only get money of people like this if you are getting cards aswell. Unfortunately just because there was money to be made at the table, maybe you should have left, It's a long night of being card dead.

It happens.

PS thought you were in college?

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

phantom_lord

johnnysmurfman wrote:

Do you bankroll? My guess is that you don't have a strict bankroll. ....

Of course I do, I play most nights of the week and I doubt I'd be able to do it without a dedicated bankroll. It's not the loss that I'm particularly worried about (sure doesn't feel good tho), I was just more curious in what people other people do in this said situation.

PS thought you were in college?

i am

Rnger

get some ice cream.

seriously!

opr

Give playing online a go!

For instance if i am 3-4 tabling online its very hard to go card dead , if i don't like a table i move to one of the the other 20 available to me , if you win X amount on 1 table thats 4X on 4 tables ....... i could keep this list going and going

Now i know you think the standand of players in the fitz makes up for this but seriously after you spend some time playing with the donks on Tribea you might change that opinion.

Playing online has so many advantages over trying to make a wage from the fitz every week.

Opr

phantom_lord

smurph wrote:

PS thought you were in college?

I make a plan of being a good little student and going to all my lectures this week. 2 days in, 0% record so far

ntlbell

Seriously,

I think Ice-Cream has been the best suggestion so far.

phantom_lord

ntlbell wrote:

Seriously,

I think Ice-Cream has been the best suggestion so far.

Not the strawberry tho.

con_leche

Try making a new resolution where you just try and go to one lecture for starters...

phantom_lord

opr wrote:

Give playing online a go!

For instance if i am 3-4 tabling online its very hard to go card dead , if i don't like a table i move to one of the the other 20 available to me , if you win X amount on 1 table thats 4X on 4 tables ....... i could keep this list going and going

Now i know you think the standand of players in the fitz makes up for this but seriously after you spend some time playing with the donks on Tribea you might change that opinion.

Playing online has so many advantages over trying to make a wage from the fitz every week.

Opr

If I'm winning at live 1/2, could I comfortably jump into online 1/2 or is there a noticeable jump in standard?

phantom_lord

opr wrote:

Give playing online a go!

For instance if i am 3-4 tabling online its very hard to go card dead , if i don't like a table i move to one of the the other 20 available to me , if you win X amount on 1 table thats 4X on 4 tables ....... i could keep this list going and going

Now i know you think the standand of players in the fitz makes up for this but seriously after you spend some time playing with the donks on Tribea you might change that opinion.

Playing online has so many advantages over trying to make a wage from the fitz every week.

Opr

If I'm winning at live 1/2, could I comfortably jump into online 1/2 or is there a noticeable jump in standard?

ntlbell

phantom_lord wrote:

If I'm winning at live 1/2, could I comfortably jump into online 1/2 or is there a noticeable jump in standard?

No.

The fitz 1/2 is like 0.5c/0.10c

Maybe start around .50/1 and see how you get on.

Solksjaer

phantom_lord wrote:

Just back from a horrendous session at the fitz, basically dropped over 900 over 8/9hours.

Early on I ran kings into a set of jacks for a buy-in, unlucky in a few big pots, lose another shoved pot, limp/call small raises and miss over and over blah blah blah, and top-up continuously.

My question is, where do you draw the line. If you are on a table of deep stacked muppets surely it makes sense to top up so you're reasonably deep?
Should the fact you haven't seen a premium hand/hit a flop in several hours stop you?

In that 8/9hour session I won about 10 pots, none of them bigger than about 40bbs. I just couldn't hit a hand.

I was moved to the main table and had two guys to my right who had 1k+ stacks, and 300+pots were being one by middle pair and other such muck, so naturally I tried to see as many cheap flops with reasonable holdings against them, but after a few hours of this and missing over and over I was just hemorrhaging chips.

If you're card dead in a tournament you can ship it, shake your head and go home, does anyone after a couple hours in cash game give up when card death occurs?

bit pissed it messed with my stats so much, my winrate dropped from 50+/hr
to 38. :mad:

Phantom, A famous professional gambler said, if you find you are losing big do not chase it,
make your bets smaller from then on a try to build it back up. I think this applys to this situation, you went chasing after your lost money. If you meet bad varience ( hate the terminology) well then it's just that 'bad varience' if you got in ahead you were playing correctly, so to loosen up your game actually amounts to more gambling and potential more losses. The correct thing to do is either GO HOME YOUNG MAN or Play as tight as you can until the varience turns in your favour.

Just my 2 cents .. I suppose it's obvious really.

Goodluck2me

phantom_lord wrote:

If I'm winning at live 1/2, could I comfortably jump into online 1/2 or is there a noticeable jump in standard?

you would hardly play PLHE 1-2 online though so there would be an obvious change for a start. try as was said before .50/1 NLHE and find your feet.

cardshark202

Read your blog. You said you have €3.5k left in your roll. I would throw most of it online on a site of your choice and multitable $100NL. I would say you would have little trouble beating that game and moving up quick enough.

bops

phantom_lord wrote:

If you're card dead in a tournament you can ship it, shake your head and go home, does anyone after a couple hours in cash game give up when card death occurs?

Firstly, only bring amount of cash in your pocket that you are happily willing to loose

Secondly, hard to do, but if you are getting fkd for a couple of hours - go home - the same muppets will be there the next night. I've learned this the hard way - things generally don't turn around in that situation (even if they are all terrible muppets) - you adjust your game, play looser etc etc... i'd guess 1/5 it comes good - but that's just me

Finally, people seem to be advising you to play online?
If you're a winning live cash player - personally i wouldn't bother. At a guess the edge you appear to have in live situations will be gone online. Just because you had an awful session...

The last time i was in your situation and decided not to leave it cost me 2k - i should have got out for 500
It was 10 seated - 7 of them were really terrible - now i mean you wouldn't believe how bad. there was mountains on cash flowing back and forth with bottom pair being the nuts etc etc...
I felt sick for a week thinking about the missed opportunity, but i learned my lesson

phantom_lord

What site should I go for?

I'm guessing it's between stars/party/gpj?

cardshark202

Pick whichever you prefer though I guess you should try go for one with a good deposit bonus/RB. I play stars cos its the best software IMO and I can play more tables at a time and it has the most traffic and it has a large selection of games but 'no RB' which is the only downside

ianmc38

There's one thing about Stars that really annoys the fúck outta me and that's the lack of short handed Yamaha tables.

I'm planning on moving 90% of my bankroll onto Full Tilt in the next few weeks as I closed my old account and setup a new one with a rakeback deal on it. They've got really good game selection and lots of traffic 24/7. I'll keep 10% of my roll on Stars for MTTs.

cardshark202

I have heard that stars may be introducing short-handed omaha soon.