MENTAL HEALTH, not seen, not heard

wexhun

I don't know if many of you watched tonights prime time investigation on mental heath & children entitled Not seen, not heard.I am sick to the stomach after watching it. Looking at those beautiful, innocent children with no voices, their parents who love them to bits pleading for help just been put on waiting lists if they are lucky. Children being put into psychiatric homes with adults, terrified, alone.
I had mental health problems from an early age, my parents tried to get help but there was none available unless they wanted me to go into an adult facility, hence I suffered and caused more suffering in my adult life and it is only now that I am an adult that there are services available to me.
There is something Seriously wrong with our government today when they ignore the mental health of its children, OK I know that government are only interested in those with a vote but do they not realise that these children with mental health problems grow up to be ADULTS with mental health problems and which is easier to deal wit and treart?? I feel so passionatly about this. I really want to do something about it. Please if you feel passionatly aboout this issue too let me know or if you have any ideas on ways 1 person can make a difference let me know. That gorgeous little boy with Aspergers and ADDH at the end telling us his dreams of what he wanted to be when he got bigger is ingrained on my mind. Maybe if the government can't hear his voice they might hear mine!

r3nu4l

My cousin suffers with Aspergers syndrome and did so without any help until the age of 12! Since then things have improved dramatically for him.

Part of the problem is lack of knowledge in many cases. Aspergers is only recently widely recognised even within professional circles. My cousin was never institutionalised but he was excluded from the playground at school because of his disruptive and anti-social behaviour. Even today he finds himself in trouble for saying the wrong thing to the wrong people but coaching ahs helped him reduce these instances.

Also, when I was a scout leader we had a kid (a fellow leaders son) who was a real wild kid, always causing trouble. Eventually his mother and father sent him to a boot camp and he was better behaved for a while after that...turns out he has ADHD and again this wasn't diagnosed until he was 14.

Help is often out there but the problem has to be correctly recognised at first, before proper referral can be made!

Marksie

One of my closest friends youngets daughter is the same. Her son she managed to get out of the states is 10 and has aspergers. In the states they medicated him with well in excess of the recommended adult dose since he was 6.

Over here he went nearly psychotic when there were no drugs available.
Severe withdrawl symptoms.

She is trying to get him seen to as they were really worried that he would kill someone.

Verdict..they will do something when that happens and the appointment would be in at least 2 years otherwise.

nando

This is a subject that makes my blood boil. It was so hard watching Primetime the other night. So excuse the rant!

My younger brother has Aspergers and ADHD. We had always known he had problems since he was an infant and from the time he was in junior infants my mother asked the school to assess him for learning or behavioural problems.

They insisted he was just bold and it took until he was 7 to test him when his reading was below average. First off they suggested he needed glasses and suggested an optician, who agreed he needed reading glasses. The school special needs teacher thought this improved things but we weren't convinced so we took him to the Eye and Ear. They said he had perfect vision and the lenses he was given were basically just glass :rolleyes:

It took more battles and until he was 9 for them to decide he was dyslexic, which he is, and he then was given the usual "remedial english" classes and it helped a little. His behaviour got worse and worse though and my mother asked several gps and the school for advice, assessment and referral for further assessment to no avail - he was still just a bold child who needed stricter parenting..

Well come secondary school things were a nightmare - he was aggressive, abusive and violent towards his family and his teachers if challenged and was suspended etc. several times. We went to councillors and psychologists (eastern healthboard ones as we couldn't afford private) who tried to discuss parenting skills etc. but nothing improved. At 14 he was banging his head off the wall and crying with frustration and we were very worried for his personal safety. Finally one night after he attacked my father and then hurt himself we took him to A&E in Crumlin because basically we didn't know what else to do. The staff were fantastic there and referred him to a psychiatrist and put him on 24 hour nursing care for his own safety but obviously he couldn't stay there forever - it's not what the hospital is meant to deal with.

It was at this stage he was finally diagnosed with AS and ADHD and it was recommended he be put in a residential home for therapy and further assesment temporarily with my parent's permission. He spent 6 months living with kids who were junkies or joyriders etc. and when he came home he was doped on meds and worse than ever, but seeing a therapist once a week and going back to school. He came off the meds due to side effects and then became agressive again and was excluded from school.

Then he reached the magical age of 16 where although in Ireland you are legally a child and your parents are responsible for your behaviour, you are given the choice to make your own decision about seeking medical help or therapy and so he opted out of all treatments. This time between 16 and 18 is like a limbo for children suffering mental health problems. He went off the rails totally with no therapy or councilling and was beyond the control of my parents. But they could not force him to see his psychologist as much as they wanted him to, although they continued to attend themselves for advice. During this time they were basically villified by many, including some of his teachers, for their inability to sort him out but I really fail to see what more they could do.

Thankfully he has matured dramatically and now in his early twenties is finally showing some more rational behaviour and has sought help himself so things are going well for the moment.

It is a horrible situation that a child could be left like this with no diagnosis or support so his condition progressed and worsened in later years unchecked. And also a disgrace that his family received little or no support for years on end. Marksuttonie you are dead right - they will leave the child on waiting lists for years until some dramatic or tragic event forces them to take action.

wexhun

:mad: Bloody hell, it makes me sooo angry and then sad, with all the money in the country!!! The children get forgotten, those without voices because they can't vote. These kids are just written off as bad, people tut-tut at their behaviour but without help their behaviour is uncontrolable. Its not their fault!I really feel for these kids and their parents and I would love to be proactive and do something but what? Write letters? Campaign? I feel helpless at the moment and wish I could channel my feeelings into something positive for these kids.

nesf

I was more annoyed by the mangled statistics presented and the sensationalist approach of the program. It was far too simplistic and there was not enough debate, we were just presented with "bad cases" and left to simmer angrily about it.

Mental health is an extremely complex problem and the idea of putting a suicidal teenager into an adult psychiatric ward being wrong is kind of short sighted. If they turned them away it would be far worse. It's not ideal but it's an acceptable trade-off versus putting them in a youth prison imho.

Oh, and the "they were far worse than me" argument kind of annoyed me. She was in a psych ward, what did she expect? Happy lucid people chatting to each other? It's like, if you're there you're taking up someone else's place, if you know what I mean. You should be in a bad enough condition that you need to be there.

Then I'm far too cynical about all this stuff from seeing all the **** that goes on on both sides of the fence.

wexhun

I appreciate your point of view nesf,
but my argument is why should we stand for it, To put a teenager in an adult psychiatric ward, O.K, she was "lucky" to get this place and help, but why are there not places for young people with mental health issues in adolescant wards where they won't feel so afraid and isolated. This girl was obviously speaking from her experiance and I know from my own experiance in and out of various mental institutions that there were alot of elderly patients who were on for the want of a better word old long term medication which left them either scaringly sedated or rocking in a what seems like a sad and disturbing manner. For a depressed, isolated teenager to go into a situation is particularly frightening and isolating especially if you cannot make contact with your family.

I really don't think it was sensationalising the issues either. The fact is there is no psychiatric help if you are feeling suicidal out of hours. We had a heartbreaking tragic example of this in our hometown of Wexford, when a young mother went looking for help after five o' clock and was told that you can only get such help 9-5 Mon-Fri. This young mother subsequently drowned herself and her two young daughters. Two years on and what has changed absolutly NOTHING, you can still only get help between 9-5!

In the programme we were presented with "bad" cases but these are by no means the worst. Our newpapers are full of young troubled teenager who have been in trouble with the law, are turning to alcohol and drugs. Not all but alot of theses kids had mental health issues and have slipped through the net, the net with very big holes in it might I add!

As for that "excuse" and this will probably get me banned but that excuse of a junior minister, Tim O'Malley, saying that some people like having long waiting lists! No it has nothing to do with decades of underfunding and no gumshin to commit the services and resourses to form an up to date mental health service!
He has also recently stated that depression may not be a medical condition but no more than ordinary human unhappiness. Right tell that to my family who have seen me in the depths of despair and suicidal for no apparent reason, tell that to them when they have gone through the pain of seeing someone they love loosing their will and fight to live. Tell that to my children if I came off my medication for this ordinary human unhappiness and I end up doing some serious harm to myself!
PUUURRRLLLEEEAASSSE, This is our junior health minister? I'm beginning to think that it is not the likes of me that need the psychiatric care.

I'm sorry I don't mean to go off on one but I really am passionate about this subject and it is just going on and on, these kids are on waiting lists for years and then they get lost........

keynesian

This belief "He has also recently stated that depression may not be a medical condition but no more than ordinary human unhappiness." probably comes from the over use of the word depression.

I can't say that putting people of different ages in to together is a bad thing. It can give perspective and insight, in relative terms.

nesf

wexhun wrote:

I appreciate your point of view nesf,
but my argument is why should we stand for it,

A lot of people today forget that we have made a lot of progress in this. Talk to anyone who was diagnosed/treated 20+ years ago and you'll be shocked by what went on. I come from a family with a history of this, believe me I was the luckiest so far by a long stretch. It's depressing, but in reality we are slowly moving towards the better. We're not as badly off as some people like to make out. Yes things could and should improve but it will take a long time due to the combination of a beauracratic health system and 'overuse' of it by people.

If your child has a need for psychiatric help, why not go private? Waiting for 3 years on a public waiting list when you could afford the private fees (which are reasonable enough tbh) just takes up a place that people who can't afford private need. The idea that the public system should provide for all of us is just silly. It should be a call of last resort for those who have no other choice.

We on one hand are unwilling to pay the tax rates needed for an all encompassing health system, ala Sweden etc, and on the other we demand such a system and become very angry when it doesn't appear. The Government simply does not have the money to set up such a system at the moment (no, the huge surplus wouldn't cover it and remember we'd have to pay for it next year and the next etc etc). If you take a step back from it, it's quite clear that there are failings on both sides.

Jimoslimos

nesf makes some very good points which I would tend to agree. Unfortunately I haven't seen the programme so can't comment too much about the content. However it does seem with the topic of mental health care arises the focus can be biased towards the emotive, heart-string tugging cases such as children with autism/aspergers.

IMHO there are other aspects to mental health which are far more common but don't receive the same sort of 'glamorous' media attention (schitzophrenia for one).

I don't agree however that it is something that you should have to wait 3 years for or go private. Mental health is as important as general physical well-being and funding should reflect that.

And my last point (and I'm aware that this will probably make me quite unpopular) is that the increase in numbers of autistic children diagnosed might have more to do with parents attaching less of a stigma to autism than a diagnosis of "your child has learning difficulties".
1: Easier for parents to assign a reason/condition to child's behaviour &
2: Better (although marginally in many cases) treatment than a similar child diagnosed with learning difficulties.

I'll stress again I'm not trying to belittle anyones condition here but all mental health issues should receive the correct level of care (regardless of whether children are involved).

nesf

Jimoslimos wrote:

IMHO there are other aspects to mental health which are far more common but don't receive the same sort of 'glamorous' media attention (schitzophrenia for one).

I agree, a lot of the more "chronic" conditions are ignored. They don't make for good sensational material after all.

Jimoslimos wrote:

I don't agree however that it is something that you should have to wait 3 years for or go private. Mental health is as important as general physical well-being and funding should reflect that.

My point was more that the public system should be the safety net to catch those who are in difficulties, not the norm for everyone. If more went private then waiting lists will go down. (Though, I admit, they will go back up again because people will change form private to public because of the now shorter waiting list etc)

Then, my views on the public system are not in line with a lot of people's. I honestly believe that if you can afford private insurance that you should have it. It relieves pressure on the public system to some extent which is good and you get a nice tax break, which is good.

Jimoslimos wrote:

And my last point (and I'm aware that this will probably make me quite unpopular) is that the increase in numbers of autistic children diagnosed might have more to do with parents attaching less of a stigma to autism than a diagnosis of "your child has learning difficulties".
1: Easier for parents to assign a reason/condition to child's behaviour &
2: Better (although marginally in many cases) treatment than a similar child diagnosed with learning difficulties.

I'll stress again I'm not trying to belittle anyones condition here but all mental health issues should receive the correct level of care (regardless of whether children are involved).

Personally I'd be thinking of dyslexia when I think of the above situation not autism, but I do know where you are coming from. Diagnosing conditions in adults is difficult and subjective, nevermind in children.

Doghouse

keynesian wrote:

This belief "He has also recently stated that depression may not be a medical condition but no more than ordinary human unhappiness." probably comes from the over use of the word depression.

He should try having it for a while and I think he'd change his mind.

I can't say that putting people of different ages in to together is a bad thing. It can give perspective and insight, in relative terms.

I totally agree. I was first admitted to a psychiatric hospital when I was 20 (for what was eventually diagnosed as bipolar disorder) and was there for 3 and a half months. All of the wards I was on had people of different ages ranging from around 14 to 80. The younger people tended to hang around together during the day but most of us ended up making good friends amongst the older patients. They certainly didn't make me feel any more frightened or isolated. Granted at 20 I wasn't exactly a child but I guarantee the 14 year olds would have said the same thing. In fact if anything many of them made life a lot easier by looking after us and acting sort of like surrogate parents. There were definitely those who were threatening or just ill-tempered but that's where the older adults can act as a buffer. Parents might be reluctant to have their children go into an adult facility but it's better they be there than harming themselves or others on the outside. What I'm saying obviously doesn't apply to younger kids. Having young children in an adult facility would be unhelpful to all age groups.