Huge field strategy

gosplan

Hi All,
Have begun playing the monster field tournaments (500+) in the hope of netting something large at some point in the next year or so.

Anyway I'm looking for ways to improve my tournament strategy.

In these tournaments is it a case of playing AA, KK, QQ, AK and the odd AQ and sc's when the conditions are favourable.

The games are above the donkey level so everyone at least knows a bit about the game.

Anyone know any advanced strategy or what a good book would be?

My game at the moment involves making tonnes of notes, using the gap concept, playing premium hands and hoping things go my way.

My concern is that everyone else at the table is playing the same game. So how do I become a better player then them?

I read recently an excellent article (linked from here) which suggested kind of double bluffing the gap concept. i.e. re-raising pf with decent holdings in the mid stages of a tournament. This basically means taking down the blinds and a raise when the guy who raised realised that he can't go any further with his A10 or whatever. The upside is that you can win a lot of pots uncontested, the downside is that when re-raising with pf you really have to know when to let go.

Anyway, anyone got any further resources for advanced tournament strategy.

Any tips from the pros????

gocall01

Not a pro, not even a very good amateur.
I play a lot of SnG and small to medium buy in MTTs with some success.
Won an online $24 MTT FO ($3500 guaranteed) recently with 250+ players.

The most important thing which you haven't mentioned is "position".
I think this is paramount in all poker, at any level.
Sure have a reasonably tight range and remain disciplined.
Personally, I play reasonably TAG at the start of play and as the tournament progresses I loosen up as I get a feeling for the players.
A friend of mine says he grades players at a table for the first level or two (grades 1 to 4 I think).
However, I believe this works best in live games but you can still get a feel for bet patterns etc online.
Speaking of bet patterns, vary yours, I find this works really well if you encounter the same player a numbers of times.
(Remember, online anyone serious about progressing takes notes, it has helped me in the past and I'm sure it will again.)

You seem to have a good understanding of more than just basics ("gap concept" being something a lot of players may never even have heard of).
However, you need to be comfortable with the basics before you start introducing a bit of your own personal creativity.
Good books - Harrington on Hold'em 1 & 2 are very good tournament books.
I have just finished the second and believe it to have improved my game.
The books show you how to play very strong ABC poker in my opinion.

I am sure they will be more replys with far better info than some of this on the more advanced concepts like the "squeeze play" etc.

I will read the rest of this thread with interest.

BigCityBanker

I dont consider myself to be any good but for me in a large field MTT I fall asleep and only wake up with a very premium hand - no interest in anything else until close to bubble time. When u r button keep a close eye on SB + BB - you may have far greater fold equity than you realise particularly around the bubble. You can often build/maintain your stack by taking advantage of this. Similarily on your blinds ensure that the button isnt exercising his fold equity on you. Im not suggesting protecting your blinds at all cost - im just saying it aint no harm to flex a bit of muscle every once in a while.

sirpsycho

Highly recommend Harrington 1 & 2 like gocall01 above.

sikes

What you are most concerned about, as with all tournaments, is you stack size relative to blinds/antes, the average stack and the structure.

You will find that there will be greater variance in the larger tournaments, with regards your results, and you should be bankrolled for the swings.

Never panic in a tournament of this size if you are not in the top 100 or whatever, or even if you slip from being in top 10 to outside top 50 and feel underpressure to regain you position.

Always have an idea of where you lie in relation to average stack and blinds. Harringtons book are a great starter point for tournament play.

ntlbell

mneh these 500+ tournies are usually crapshoots and you usually need to get lucky in a few spots to take one down.

I try double early and build my stack early or move on to the next tourny.

Take every 50/50 going.

Try get in for cheap in LP with SC's one/two gapped.

Once you've built your stack, bully the shorties and play some poker.

Don't get fancy, these are usually full of morons who won't lay down most hands any pair any decent K/A.

You don't need really any advanced strategy.

Gambooool early and then it's ABC stuff till the buisness end.

Usually the blind level's and starting stacks don't really give you the time you need to play like Dan Harrington.

DeadParrot

and be prepared to play perfectly for hours only for some donk to call off your well timed move with air and outdraw you

gosplan

Yeah, I seem to be making rich men out of the 'I have an ace and therefore will never fold' crowd.

Anyway, keep the suggestions coming.

For all the good tournament boardsies out there, what makes you good??

Also for all those interested found this:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=3436856&an=0&page=0#Post3436856

should keep anyone busy for a few days.

slegs

Presume this is online?

I dont profess to be an expert but I have had reasonable success with 10+ wins online this year in MTT online tourneys and 25+ cashes

For me there are three different stages to an online tourney with huge fields.

Early Stage (500-300 players)

Most of the tourneys I play are rebuys and every fool and his idiot friend are shipping chips in on any two cards. I play like a rock. Mostly dont raise before the flop (as they always do) and if you do it can be a kind of trigger for them to ship em in no matter what they have. Play it safe with premium hands, fold alot, double up out of your big hands and go back to sleep mode until the next one. you dont need to slowplay the nuts much as any bet is usually matched even when they miss the flop. Note any 2 suited cards is the favoured hand of the fool so be wary of the flushie flop. With tis flop, pot odds, preflop raises etc do not matter a jot so its important to be aware of this with your betting.

Rebuy/Addon if you go busto up to a predefined limit (for me this is usually the lowest cash prize in the tourney). Its worth it to rebuy as the field gets whittled down quickly and there are lots of chips to be made even 10 mins before the addon period.

Ideally you would like to have 5 times your starting stack by the time the rebuy period ends but even with less (2-3 times) you are in decent shape for the next stage.

Mid Stage (300-100 players)

Once the addon period is over most of the fools are gone and those fools still left are now getting jumpy at the thoughts of making the money (2 hours away).

You can start playing poker now.

I like to change gears a couple of times in this period as its important to make a stack now. Play more suited connectors and lower pairs for value. Play position. Slowplay the nuts. Check raise bluffs where weakness shown. There is scope for more bluffing here as most people tighten up alot but be careful. As the field is whttling down the quality of player left has improved. Watch out for the donkeys they stick out alot more at this level. They will show you cards all the time are usually very active and talkative (they will get very excited as the bubble nears). Learn from what they do and it should be easy to target their chips. Squeeze plays and out of position reraises can be successful here too but can only be used once in a while as you will usually get called a second time.

Be very careful about calling allin reraises. At this stage very few people commit all their chips on a bluff and its not worth guessing who is and who isnt. Assess what you are beating before calling and usually TPTK is not enough (broad generalisation depending on context obviously).

It is ideal if you are in the top 15 stacks at the end of this stage as it gives you so much more scope for playing agressive in the end stage which can be key. So dont be afraid to mix it around. If you go bust there is always tomorrow night.

End Stage (100 -1)

End stage is the most interesting part of the large field tourney. For most inexperienced players this is where they tighten up the most as they are focussing on making the money. The lower cash prizes are usually tiny in the larger scheme of things so making the money is irrelevant for me. I need to make the final table. Hence having a big stack gives you a huge advantage.

Steal blinds regularly folding to major reraises (unless u have v premium hands obv). It is perfect when you have a super steady inexperienced rock on your left as his blind is extra stealable and you know that when he comes back at you you are usually behind.

I move gears alot here. Playing TAG for a while (20 handish) to build an image and then switching to v LAG can be successful as long as you are disciplined.
In fact, build any image. It doesnt really matter what the image is as you can use it to your advantage in different situations. As you get near the bubble bully even more than normal (esp if you are big stack).

Monitor the other tables when the numbers get below 50. Figure out who the threats are...if you get here regularly you will recognise some of the experienced good players. Obv take notes etc for the future.

As i said for me the target is to get to the final table for others its the money (45 or 27 depending on the tourney). I use this to my advantage. When they get to the money they loosen up and call lots more hands. The blinds are quite large so there is lots of post flop play that can be profitable no matter what your hand. Reraise bluffs, betting out when you dont hit can force folds alot of the time.

As you get closer to the finale table the prize money shoots up along with the blinds and the amount of post flop play reduces to a minumum. Most people have between 10 and 20 BBs now so there arent too many decisions to be made its usually raise, push or fold. You can steal blinds from almost anywhere as long as you have a semi decent hand (A-8+ 44+). A reraise almost always means a fully premium hand. Be wary of AJ and A10. Even in the SB/BB to a button raising these can get you in big trouble. Use your knowledge of the player to decide whether to push against him or not. A good player may fold even AK to a push if he is on equal or less stack than you. A poor player may call with a lower range than what you have. I hate these two hands though as they get you in trouble alot in end stage play.

If you get to heads up be patient. Too many people ship it in regularly heads up unnecessarily. Heads up can go on for an hour or more so wait for the right spots. It does pay to play a lot of hands though as it becomes very transparent if you only play premium hands heads up.

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Sorry if some of this seems elementary to those experienced players on here but it may be of some use to new tourney poker players.

For reference
Harrington on Holdem 1+2 are the best out there for NLH tournaments
Tribeca tournaments for me are the most interesting with a good mix of all types of players.
Pokerstars and Full Tilt are somehwat tougher. Havent played there in a while but Partypoker has too many idiots playing to be able to form any kind of image.

kincsem

You have to "stay alert" / "stay in the game" for a very long time. A six hour session is average. I don't take notes, other than making mental notes of moves players make, and knowing what actions will work against them.