Ruling Question

kinaldo

I should probably know all this but anyway...

This happened in the SE €200 Monthly game yesterday:

Having reraised preflop we're now heads up and I bet 1800 into a 4000 pot with ace high on the flop.

My loose opponent reacts quickly by shoving all his chips in, which looked like a lot more than he actually had - 150 or so less than my bet I think. I really thought he had at least 5k behind (I've said before that I'd never make that dumb mistake again, but this time I really mean it!)

I promptly folded by gently throwing my cards over the line but then realised my stupidity and tried to retrieve them as they were nowhere near the muck and the dealer hadn't taken them in yet.

I'm pretty sure the general rule is he's entitled to the pot, which he was very adamant about, but should he have to show his hand to claim it? Their official ruling was the pot was his and he didn't have to show. He wouldn't tell me what he had and was very keen to have my hand killed when he saw it.

Glowingmind

I don't think he has to show, as essentially you folded to his action. I'm sure someone can correct me if i'm wrong but the only time you're actually entitled to see another player's hand is when the hand goes to a showdown. Even in that instance, if he mucks after you show, you would have to ask for the cards to be shown (though i think this is generally considered bad form).

Rnger

This is a showdown so he does have to show his cards

Glowingmind

It would only constitute a showdown if it was ruled that kinaldo's hand was still in play. By the wording of the post i don't believe this was that case, and the other player is entitled to claim the pot without showing, the same way you wouldn't be entitled to see my hand if you reraised me off a pot on the flop.

Rnger

kinaldo wrote:

My loose opponent reacts quickly by shoving all his chips in, which looked like a lot more than he actually had - 150 or so less than my bet I think.

There has been no raise of kinaldo's bet. Only a call, an undercall (if theres such a term). One of the 2 players left is all-in and all bets have been called... its a showdown!

imalegend

if your cards did not hit the muck or the dealer didnt touch them they are still live..doesnt matter if they crossed the line..happened tonight in the se 50 game at the final table and the ruling was his hand was live cos it didnt hit the muck...there needs to be a general clearing up on this issue as to where on the table constitutes a dead hand..over the line or actually infront of the dealer..as far as i know over the line cards are still in play and if the dealer takes them they are mucked or if they touch any other cards they are dead.

imo he was not entilted to the pot and there should have been a showdown.

Orion

kinaldo wrote:

I'm pretty sure the general rule is he's entitled to the pot, which he was very adamant about, but should he have to show his hand to claim it? Their official ruling was the pot was his and he didn't have to show. He wouldn't tell me what he had and was very keen to have my hand killed when he saw it.

Yes and no. If it's ruled that the pot is his because you folded then he doesn't have to show. But if he went all in to call - with a lower bet than yours - then he has to win it with his cards.

Looks very grey to me. You made the mistake tbh by ditching your cards. But his call was less than your bet - he didn't raise so it should have been a show.

BIG-SLICK-POKER

Simple u conceeded the pot he does not have to show his cards in this situation ... Once your cards crossed the line they are dead even if the dealer has not grabbed them some clubs mite hv diff rulings on it so its a house ruling in this case .... I was playin in the macau the other day and i was next to act in a decent pot and i had a flush , i was slow rollin Caoimh o sullivan and playing with my chips , one chip which was a 500 chip inadvertantly flicked out of my hand and rolled past the line blinds were 200-400
and the dealer said thats a bet of 500 i was amazed i tryed to reason with her and the cardroom manager told me she was right LOL --- crazy stuff caoimh knew i had ahand then and just called the 500 as he had a big hand also and would have called a biggger bet





Neill k

imalegend

as far as i know big slick there are different rulings on cards and chips..as far as i know the line on the table only is used for chips.once the chips cross the line they are in play but for cards to be dead they have 2 hit the muck....a few dealers post on here would they be able to clear up this matter??