Odds question - SCs vs Overpairs

Mr. Flibble

So I know the odds of flopping a set are 7.5:1 with a pocker pair, despite it actually never happening.

So does anyone know the odds of suited connectors outflopping an overpair, ie. flopping a straight, flush, 2 pair/trips/quads?
Flush and straight draws are no good to me - they'll only get me in big pile of poo.

opr

Mr. Flibble wrote:

So I know the odds of flopping a set are 7.5:1 with a pocker pair, despite it actually never happening.

So does anyone know the odds of suited connectors outflopping an overpair, ie. flopping a straight, flush, 2 pair/trips/quads?
Flush and straight draws are no good to me - they'll only get me in big pile of poo.

Here is a good thread from 2+2 on the type of stuff your looking for. Hope it helps.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=6996709&page=0&fpart=1&vc=1

Opr

Mr. Flibble

Thats great opr, thanks. Looks like they're not quite as profitable to call with unless you have large fold equity vs an overpair.

opr

Mr. Flibble wrote:

Thats great opr, thanks. Looks like they're not quite as profitable to call with unless you have large fold equity vs an overpair.

Np,TBH i think they are becoming way overvalued by players who watch alot of TV poker and Gus Hansen

Its very dangerous for new players to do this as i think it takes alot of skill to make them winning hands as the can be very complex to play postflop.

I presume when your referring to FE its in regards to that about 1-7.5 times you will find something on the flop thats worth shoving but problem being we are still drawing so we would like if Villian folded.

In that thread they seem to agree that using the 5-10 rule isn't a bad idea when deciding to call preflop.
I think its alot more complicated than that and you can't really compare PP and SC's and come to that conclusion.

I mean with a PP its usually a simple choice on the flop we either got the set or we didn't and Fold ( most of the time. )

With SC's we will often face very tough and complex decisions postflop. These will often use factors such as FE , EV , pot odds ... etc.

Its very easy for us to know when we flop a set that a large percentage of the time we are gonna win.

Their are so many more factors in the Post flop play of SC's that i dont think you can just arbitrarily use the 5-10 rule.

Opr

phantom_lord

What's the 5/10 rule?

opr

phantom_lord wrote:

What's the 5/10 rule?

Their are some really good threads on twoplustwo on this concept but i can't seem to dig any of them up.

Taken from 2+2

Q: I've heard other posters mentioning the 5/10 rule. What is it?

A: The 5/10 rule is an important no-limit concept that first appeared in Bob Ciaffone's excellent book, "PL & NL Poker." To quote directly from the book:

"When contemplating calling a raise because your position is good, you have a clear call if the raise is less than 5% of your stack, and a clear fold if it is more than 10%. In between those numbers, use your judgement."

It's a good rule for calling a preflop raise with a pocket pair in hopes of hitting a set. The driving force behind the concept is the implied odds in a given situation. If you get your set, but the opponent only has 5BBs after the initial raise, calling to hit the set in the first place is incorrect.

Opr

Mr. Flibble

opr wrote:

I presume when your referring to FE its in regards to that about 1-7.5 times you will find something on the flop thats worth shoving but problem being we are still drawing so we would like if Villian folded.

Yes. Unlike where you have a pratically invincible (I like that phrase) set, it would often be nice for an overpair to fold if you only have a draw or weakish 2 pair. So they probably have more value when playing better players who have the ability to fold an overpair.