Has anyone experience in this style??

yomchi

The opening 2 sentences is what struck me.

http://www.ugek.net/master_maughan.asp

What does he teach exactly, or is it some stuff from Larry Tatum fame??

BobbyOLeary

Oh lord, this chap. Hmmm, he teaches pretty much the Larry Tatum Kenpo Karate syllabus as far as I know. Its mostly similar to EKKA Kenpo except they use the 24 technique system instead of 16 and some forms are taught on different belts, I think. He advertised courses on rape prevention a while back if I recall. I've never experienced his classes personally but according to reliable sources who have, he's fierce bad.

He's a Larry Tatum BB and somehow he's now a 10th Degree in Kenpo, go figure.

Millionaire

I know the name, but not the man, nor his training, though I seem to remember a long time ago, this came up in this forum, and someone said he knew his stuff.

Dermot Nolan

Look at the free video previews. They speak for themselves.

Roper

Oh man, the vids on that site have been the source of great amusement to me and my mates for years! Check out the multiple attackers ones. Theres guys falling down everywhere!

Dyr

Roper wrote:

Oh man, the vids on that site have been the source of great amusement to me and my mates for years!

I thought i was the only one lol

yomchi

Dermot Nolan wrote:

Look at the free video previews. They speak for themselves.

True! Only seeing them now.. oh dear

gymrabbit

does he actually teach classes in dublin?

crazy monkey

Grandmaster george maughan [personally I hate titles], has the occassional column/technique pictorial in Iirish Fighter magazine.

Like alot of old skool kenpo lads he's a hard and hearty gent, he believes in what he is doing and to be honest one on one in a spar would probably be a good old banger...I respect his decdication to his system but personally I think I see the "effectiveness" of his art when I see the free video preview titled - gathering of the masters...

If you or your system claim you can handle ten [or any number of] attackers then please prove it...that's all I ask...

Standing in the centre, prepared and with unresisting opponents who attack on an individual basis with a rather convenient speed...well this shows all that is wrong with TMA in my opinion...

I studied kenpo for about 10 years and like it as a TMA...but even my old sifu [again with the titles] would admit that if a few guys start on you and you are on your own their attack will not be around you in a circle and attacking in a mannerly way one by one they will knock the snot out of you...and you are going to feel it...

Now, in conclusion, fair play to Grandmaster Maughan for his achievements and his dedication but please lose the pomp and ceremony [eg gripping talon or snake in the orchid on bingo tuesday with the lavendar hairbrush of fire from the palace of justice technique names] and get prgressively old skool or to put it bluntly stick to your arena of combat, in this case stand up but make it real and modern...

Rant over....

crazy monkey B.A. [Hons]

who needs titles?not me.......

Bring me sunshine......

kenpo_dave

From what I understand George Maughan is the laughing stock of Kenpo in Ireland. Apparently he failed his brown belt grading under my instructor and then went to another club and failed it there too. But wait, not only has he passed my instructor by a few dan grades, but hes also passed Larry Tatum and Ed Parker himself :rolleyes:

The Shane

Saw his Nunchaku kata, he nearly knocked himself out. I'd pay for the comedy value alone.

As for his instructing abilities... I think crazy monkey has him down to a tee.

Personally I've come to realise that all martial arts are useless and that lifting heavier weights are the way to go.

Shane, The

Millionaire

crazy monkey wrote:

Standing in the centre, prepared and with unresisting opponents who attack on an individual basis with a rather convenient speed...well this shows all that is wrong with TMA in my opinion...

.....

I always look at those sort of demos as Martial Art Entertainment... not a statment of god like power over dozens of attackers.

sort of like what my TKD instructor used to do in demos...jump spinning kicks about 10 feet in the air, kicking apples of swords, and all that..

we all know useless for a real fight, but very nice and fun to watch, for entertainment value.

A bit like musical kata... (sick bag please...lol)

john kavanagh

Millionaire wrote:

we all know useless for a real fight

you'll find people who'll argue endlessly the opposite!!

damo

I'm deadly serious when i say this muppet should be thrown in jail for marketing his complete bull**** as 'rape defence' and selling it to women.

People who teach this crap need to be exposed in the media and shut down because it is pure fantasy and does not work and will not apply in a real assault.

People who believe that stuff works need to grow up.

Millionaire

john kavanagh wrote:

you'll find people who'll argue endlessly the opposite!!

They'll drive me back to the drink! :eek:

TwoKingMick

I can't wait to get back to Dublin and drop my knee through ... someones face.

john kavanagh

damo wrote:

People who teach this crap need to be exposed in the media and shut down because it is pure fantasy and does not work and will not apply in a real assault.

but here's the problem - how do you prove its 'pure fantasy' and does not work?

Millionaire

There is always people in MA out there regardless of style or training methods who can make their stuff work. They are very few in number, but their out there, I have met a few in my travels. I think for these people its more their Mental Attitude that makes in work, and Aggression, as opposed to style and training.

However I agree that for 95% of regular punters out there, it probably will not work.

In general with the stuff, if its for fun, hobby, fitness and training...it great.. just take it for what it is.

Its like Krav Maga, a decent enough system if trained properly, (yet it certainly does not have all the answeers either). I used to love Krav Maga, but all these Army, Special Commando marketing, really put me off it, and I moved away from it as a result.

Baggio...

john kavanagh wrote:

but here's the problem - how do you prove its 'pure fantasy' and does not work?

That's easy... Just put on a pair of boxing gloves and go all out. People will soon discover what really works. But your average Martial Artist does not really want to go through that ordeal - they are quite happy to take the instructors word for it.

All American Kenpo is founded on theory. There is no doubt that Ed Parker was a clever and talented man. But how much real violence had he actually faced? Very little I'll wager. That's why people like Geoff Thompson will always be light years ahead - because they have "walked the walk".

john kavanagh

Baggio... wrote:

That's easy... Just put on a pair of boxing gloves and go all out.

but a lot of their self defence techniques are eye gouges, knife hands to the throat etc. these are too dangerous to spar so how do you test them?

Baggio...

john kavanagh wrote:

but a lot of their self defence techniques are eye gouges, knife hands to the throat etc. these are too dangerous to spar so how do you test them?

Eye gouges and strikes to the throat are certainly effective - if executed correctly. Testing them very difficult for obvious reasons - you can always wear protective eye gear, but it can only ever be a simulation.

It's the concepts behind the AK syllabus make it ineffective.

For example all their techniques are based on defense (you know the techniques I mean - Dance of Death, etc.).

In other words you wait until he strikes then you block and follow up with X,Y and Z. Anyone who does tough sparring knows that "action beats reaction". So your humped if your waiting for those techniques to work after you've been cracked in the head (let us not forget that fights take place at conversation range, not sparring range - which will give you even less time in a street fight).

Kenpo uses lots of what I call "micro strikes" that don't have very much power (back fists, light blade kicks, etc.) - what's the point? If you are going to hit someone make sure the shots count. Right cross, left hook, Thai Elbow - much more effective in my opinion (okay, I'd use open hands, but the delivery and power is much the same).

These "micro strikes" are all based on fine motor skills. Which wont work under adrenal stress anyway.

I'd better not mention "Hick's law" either....:D

john kavanagh

Baggio... wrote:

That's easy... Just put on a pair of boxing gloves and go all out. People will soon discover what really works.

if we can agree this is the best way to discover what works, as a matter of interest how many times per week would you train this way? do you go to boxing clubs for sparring partners or do you have your own club?

Baggio...

john kavanagh wrote:

if we can agree this is the best way to discover what works, as a matter of interest how many times per week would you train this way? do you go to boxing clubs for sparring partners or do you have your own club?

Hi John,

Not as much as I should to be honest. Mostly I train solo these days, that's one of the reasons why I want to try and start up some kind of Combatives group.

I've done quite a bit of Boxing some years back where there was full contact sparring. Recently I was in Liverpool training against the Fist suit. Which I found much better for me, as I could hit full it force and it was set up much like a street fight (range, dialog, multiple opponents, etc.). Unlike regular Bullet man training - you actually get hit hard! I'm going to be doing some more in Jan.

It would be cool to set up some form of that training over here. But the guys in Liverpool use a modified Fist suit - so I can't see that type of training being available .

The Redman suit is not too bad for stress inoculation - but you can't really unload on it.

Cheers,

B.

damo

john kavanagh wrote:

but here's the problem - how do you prove its 'pure fantasy' and does not work?

Of course its very difficult to prove,but if you REALLY wanted to nail this guy you could send a chick in to do his 'rape' course, then when shes done get some big guy to realistically grab her and see if she can use any of the techniques she'd learned. Could make for a good youtube clip

Rape is no joke especially with the 2 recent abductions on O'Connell st where some eastern european guy literally grabbed 2 girls off the street and dragged them into an apartment complex and raped them. It boils my blood to think that clowns like that guy on the website are making money off of scared women...not only will his rubbish not make them any safer,it may do the opposite by giving them a very false sense of security.

john kavanagh

Baggio... wrote:

Unlike regular Bullet man training - you actually get hit hard! I'm going to be doing some more in Jan.

or you could come to sbg rathcoole on any thursday night for the same thing!!:)

damo... wrote:

not only will his rubbish not make them any safer,it may do the opposite by giving them a very false sense of security.

agreed

Baggio...

damo wrote:

It boils my blood to think that clowns like that guy on the website are making money off of scared women...not only will his rubbish not make them any safer,it may do the opposite by giving them a very false sense of security.

I know what you are saying...But it's 95% of the self-defense courses out there - it's not just A.K., and unfortunately I can't see it changing for a very long time.

Again as you said - it's very hard to prove, unless you are going to get the boxing gloves on. No martial artist (or very few anyway) will admit they may have been training in the wrong material for the last 10 or 20 years.

Baggio...

john kavanagh wrote:

or you could come to sbg rathcoole on any thursday night for the same thing!!:)

Reckon I'd get battered and chocked out very quickly...:)

john kavanagh

Baggio... wrote:

Reckon I'd get battered and chocked out very quickly...:)

no one gets 'battered' when i'm coaching!

sure come out some evening and give it a try like you said, its the only way you really get to know if what you are doing works

Baggio...

john kavanagh wrote:

come out some evening and give it a try like you said, its the only way you really get to know if what you are doing works

I like to give it a go at some point (believe it or not) - but now that I'm an aged 35 year old - I'd really want to get a lot fitter before I went down to SBG:) . I'd be wheezing after about 10 seconds...

Millionaire

Baggio... wrote:

but now that I'm an aged 35 year old - I'd really want to get a lot fitter before I went down to SBG:) . I'd be wheezing after about 10 seconds...

I say, get down and do it, and sure you will get fitter, as you learn new ideas down there.

Make sure you get the Thai class under Paddy too. thats will really help the combatives too.

Rich Diritri at Sensido, as well as the RBSD being the main focus, is backed up by a Thai Boxing/MMA training. Then you have the best of both worlds.

I am just 35 today! and I am trucking along very nicely at the Thai boxing. no big shake, but the stead drop of consistent training is filling the bucket very nicely.

I still want to do RBSD/Combatives training on top of this, there is no one here to do it with that I know of.

Baggio...

Millionaire wrote:

I am just 35 today! and I am trucking along very nicely at the Thai boxing. no big shake, but the stead drop of consistent training is filling the bucket very nicely.

Happy B-day!

Is "Paddy" the same guy who trains near Naas? I seem to remember some time back a guy named "Paddy" was training Thai in that area. I was thinking about asking him if I could give it a go. It's been a long time since I did proper boxing (apart form the combatives stuff).

Cheers,

R.

Millionaire

The one and only! and started me on the MT journey quite a while back

see Muay Thai / Thai Boxing
www.chupasart.com

Well with good Thai, you get boxing, knees, elbows, kicks and clinch, so it supplements Combatives really well.

pma-ire

well someone must be buying into it cause he can affort a full page advert in irish fighter every issue

Baggio...

Millionaire wrote:

The one and only! and started me on the MT journey quite a while back

Ah I see... I did not realize that they were actually part of SBG. Does Paddy give private lessons?

Millionaire

I think he still does.

I did mainly private lessons with paddy, and it was great, as you had exclusive access to top instructor working you on the MT pads. its really jump started me MT, from my kickboxing style.

Baggio...

Hey M,

Is his login here "Paddy C"? If so I might drop him a PM.

Cheers for the info',

B.

Khannie

Roper wrote:

Oh man, the vids on that site have been the source of great amusement to me and my mates for years! Check out the multiple attackers ones. Theres guys falling down everywhere!

HAHAHAHAHA. Hillarious stuff.

Over the weekend, I saw a video of two very skinny lads absolutely batter a 16 stone, tall, well built, fit looking guy. In yer mans videos (link) you can see half of them wait back while he lays in. Ridiculous stuff. In a real fight against 6, two of them would hold him down while the other 4 teach him a lesson about not taking on 6 people.

Edit: Watched it again...even worse....he takes on 7 and comes out unscratched. Hahahaha.

Baggio...

Baggio... wrote:

Does Paddy give private lessons?

Not too sure I want to take it up now;) .

Check this out!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smpsksZJVzk

Poor bloke...

astfgl

Baggio... wrote:

Check this out!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smpsksZJVzk

Poor bloke...

Poor guy, he didn't notice his leg was broken and tried to step on it:eek:

here is why you dont put out your arm when you get taken down:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnFTTyaIVCQ&mode=related&search=

kenpo_dave

Khannie wrote:

HAHAHAHAHA. Hillarious stuff.

Over the weekend, I saw a video of two very skinny lads absolutely batter a 16 stone, tall, well built, fit looking guy. In yer mans videos (link) you can see half of them wait back while he lays in. Ridiculous stuff. In a real fight against 6, two of them would hold him down while the other 4 teach him a lesson about not taking on 6 people.

Edit: Watched it again...even worse....he takes on 7 and comes out unscratched. Hahahaha.

I especially like the first one where he uses sticks and one of the guys moves too early and pauses to wait for the "grand master" to catch up:D

monkey tennis

kenpo_dave wrote:

I especially like the first one where he uses sticks and one of the guys moves too early and pauses to wait for the "grand master" to catch up:D

I LOL'd heartily at this too! I'd love to know what's going through the heads of all the people watching by the sidelines - are they buying into it, or are they rolling their eyes? (unfortunately, I'd say more likely the former)

pma-ire

monkey tennis wrote:

I LOL'd heartily at this too! I'd love to know what's going through the heads of all the people watching by the sidelines - are they buying into it, or are they rolling their eyes? (unfortunately, I'd say more likely the former)

they may as well all be lined up and attack him one at a time. it would be a more honest presentation then!!

henryb

yeah, but surely if you say krav maga is a decent system
and you used to love it, surely some dodgy marketing and stuff
doesnt suddenly turn it into a bad system.
I mean, doesnt loads of other martial arts have its own share
of bad marketing??









Its like Krav Maga, a decent enough system if trained properly, (yet it certainly does not have all the answeers either). I used to love Krav Maga, but all these Army, Special Commando marketing, really put me off it, and I moved away from it as a result.[/QUOTE]

Millionaire

Its not the marketing that made it bad, (though the special forces thing has been exaggerated to the max , I ve been there, I asked active israeli soldiers etc etc).

Its the guys who say KM can be taught over a weekend. simple fact is it cannot (weekends are ok as a basic intro course...but learn to do it all in 24 hours is BS to the max).

Like many other systems it can take years maybe 5 - 10 years to get to black belt depending on what KM Assoc you are under.

Bottom line...THERE IS NO SHORT CUTS!!!

Go buy David Kahns book called Krav Maga. I trained with Dave in Israel. Whats in that book is pretty much yellow belt, and some of orange belt requirements under Israeli Krav Maga Association.

If you can do all of whats in that book, and you must be able to do it inside out... it will get you a yellow belt.