hand from tribeca last nite

southarmaghboy

i thought i played this hand perfectly. and i cudnt belive wat this guy turned over plus another player said he folded the same hand!

Seat 1 : dorsey666 has $67.25
[Nov 30 05:58:50] : Seat 2 : MHolliday has $98.50
[Nov 30 05:58:50] : Seat 3 : drsullivan has $78
[Nov 30 05:58:50] : Seat 4 : chuckborris has $28.72
[Nov 30 05:58:50] : Seat 5 : freddiefish has $72.50
[Nov 30 05:58:50] : Seat 6 : edhackamore has $134.68
[Nov 30 05:58:50] : Seat 7 : RND has $51.50
[Nov 30 05:58:50] : Seat 8 : Skillz99 has $71.50
[Nov 30 05:58:50] : Seat 9 : Nitram_80 has $99
[Nov 30 05:58:50] : freddiefish is the dealer.
[Nov 30 05:58:51] : edhackamore posted small blind.
[Nov 30 05:58:55] : RND posted big blind.
[Nov 30 05:58:55] : Game [111726] started with 9 players.
[Nov 30 05:58:55] : Dealing Hole Cards.
[Nov 30 05:58:55] : Seat 1 : dorsey666 has Ac Ah
[Nov 30 05:58:59] : Skillz99 folded.
[Nov 30 05:59:03] : Nitram_80 folded.
[Nov 30 05:59:06] : dorsey666 called $1 and raised $2
[Nov 30 05:59:09] : MHolliday folded.
[Nov 30 05:59:11] : drsullivan folded.
[Nov 30 05:58:55] : chuckborris has 10 seconds to respond.
[Nov 30 05:59:00] : chuckborris folded.
[Nov 30 05:59:01] : freddiefish folded.
[Nov 30 05:59:06] : edhackamore called $2.50
[Nov 30 05:59:11] : RND called $2 and raised $2
[Nov 30 05:59:48] : dorsey666 called $2
[Nov 30 05:59:51] : edhackamore called $2
[Nov 30 05:59:52] : Dealing flop.
[Nov 30 05:59:52] : Board cards [7s Qc 4s]
[Nov 30 05:59:58] : edhackamore checked.
[Nov 30 06:00:04] : RND bet $15
[Nov 30 06:00:09] : dorsey666 called $15
[Nov 30 06:00:12] : edhackamore folded.
[Nov 30 06:00:12] : Dealing turn.
[Nov 30 06:00:12] : Board cards [7s Qc 4s 4h]
[Nov 30 06:00:15] : RND bet $31.50 and is All-in
[Nov 30 05:59:49] : dorsey666 called $31.50
[Nov 30 05:59:49] : Showdown!
[Nov 30 05:59:49] : Seat 1 : dorsey666 has Ac Ah
[Nov 30 05:59:51] : Seat 1 : dorsey666 has Ac Ah
[Nov 30 05:59:51] : Seat 7 : RND has 4d Qd
[Nov 30 05:59:56] : Board cards [7s Qc 4s 4h Tc]
[Nov 30 05:59:56] : Seat 7 : RND has 4d Qd
[Nov 30 05:59:56] : RND has Full House : 4s full of Queens
[Nov 30 05:59:56] : Seat 1 : dorsey666 has Ac Ah


he re reaised with q-4 out of position and turned a house, should i of rereaised him preflop, i put him on kings so i thought i was slowplaying a monster, lol

phantom_lord

Preflop is horrible.

Raise more pf, I dunno about this level, but I'm guessing 5/6 would be good? Plus reraise him when he min raises.

ntlbell

Yes, also post these in the bad beat thread.

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

phantom_lord

LuckyLloyd wrote:

Slow playing big hands leads to trouble...

Especially at this level. And yeah....bb sticky...

Mr. Flibble

I play alot at this level and would never ever play aces that slow.

Firstly I'd raise to $4, or to $5 if there have been any limpers. I know you don't want everyone to fold so may tend to a smaller raise but you'll make more/lose less in the long run if you raise more.
When you are deep that deep you especially want to raise more so there's more to fight over after the flop.
Also, when you raise so little you will find it very hard to put someboy on a hand as, as you see, they call with anything.

If you did think he had KK its pushing time preflop, he isn't folding it.

If the hand had played the same preflop I would have doubled him up too on that flop.

Mr. Flibble

I played this hand about half an hour ago southarmaghboy. No need to slow play AA! And people will reraise, even 3 bet, with less than KK.

Holdem No Limit $0.50/$1
Hand Start.
Seat 1 : Yo-C has $80.75
Seat 2 : potatismos has $99.50
Seat 3 : Fuglsang777 has $131.73
Seat 4 : Mr. Flibble has $165.13
Seat 5 : Pollit has $80
Seat 6 : dic byrne has $37.48
Yo-C is the dealer.
potatismos posted small blind.
Fuglsang777 posted big blind.
Pollit has 10 seconds to respond.
Game [50725] started with 5 players.
Dealing Hole Cards.
Seat 4 : Mr. Flibble has Ad Ac
Mr. Flibble called $1 and raised $3
dic byrne called $4 and raised $12
Yo-C called $16 and raised $64.75 and is All-in
potatismos folded.
Fuglsang777 folded.
Mr. Flibble called $76.75 and raised $84.38 and is All-in
dic byrne called $21.48 and is All-in
Showdown!
Seat 4 : Mr. Flibble has Ad Ac
Seat 1 : Yo-C has Qd Ks
Seat 4 : Mr. Flibble has Ad Ac
Seat 6 : dic byrne has Ah Kh
Board cards [8c 6c 3s 4c 6s]
Seat 4 : Mr. Flibble has Ad Ac
Mr. Flibble has Two Pair: Aces and 6s
Seat 1 : Yo-C has Qd Ks
Yo-C has Pair: 6s
Mr. Flibble wins $85.25 with Two Pair: Aces and 6s
Seat 4 : Mr. Flibble has Ad Ac
Mr. Flibble has Two Pair: Aces and 6s
Seat 6 : dic byrne has Ah Kh
dic byrne has Pair: 6s
Seat 1 : Yo-C has Qd Ks
Yo-C has Pair: 6s
Mr. Flibble wins $112.23 with Two Pair: Aces and 6s
Hand is over.

southarmaghboy

yea i think i was playing it like i would in a tournament, should of been more aggressive. learning curve!! thanks for replys

southarmaghboy

what do you mean by the term 3 bet?? raise 3 times the intial bet?? or bet flop turn and river

Gholimoli

LuckyLloyd wrote:

Raise more with your initial bet. As played three bet him pre - flop. Slow playing big hands leads to trouble...

this is not sound advice.
there are times where 3-betting pre flop is good and times that are bad.
also the slow play is not that bad at all.

the problem with the hand is the pr raise amount as you pointed out.
the post flop play is good .
he would do that with KK,QQ,AQ and prob with alot more hands that you beat like JJ,TT with only one over card there.
raise more preflop and raise his min raise but if he raises a good amount it can be very good play to just call and not 3 bet preflop as 3betting will often end the hand quickly.

Mr. Flibble

Gholimoli wrote:

this is not sound advice.
there are times where 3-betting pre flop is good and times that are bad.
also the slow play is not that bad at all.

the problem with the hand is the pr raise amount as you pointed out.
the post flop play is good .
he would do that with KK,QQ,AQ and prob with alot more hands that you beat like JJ,TT with only one over card there.
raise more preflop and raise his min raise but if he raises a good amount it can be very good play to just call and not 3 bet preflop as 3betting will often end the hand quickly.

I gotta disagree. I think this is a case where 3 betting preflop is a good move. The vil seems to have a big range and playing AA oop vs 50BBs with any 2 cards isn't easy.

southarmaghboy, some terminology.
3 bet: to have 3 bets/raises on a particular betting round. eg. you bet, i raise, you reraise = a 3bet. If I reraised again it would be a 4bet.
OOP: out of position.
BB: big blinds.

Gholimoli

Mr. Flibble wrote:

I gotta disagree. I think this is a case where 3 betting preflop is a good move. The vil seems to have a big range and playing AA oop vs 50BBs with any 2 cards isn't easy.

can you explin :

how is him having a big range an issue here?

how are we out of position against villain?

why is 3-betting here is good and what are we trying to achieve?

Mr. Flibble

Gholimoli wrote:

can you explin :

how is him having a big range an issue here?

how are we out of position against villain?

why is 3-betting here is good and what are we trying to achieve?

Sorry, I misread the hand. We're in position.

Him having a big range is an issue because there is no getting away from the hand to any flop as we have no idea what he has.

The idea of 3 betting is we're trying to get more of his stack in the middle when we're ahead, and less when we are behind. If he has AK, and possibly more hands, we'll probably get it all by 3 betting pre flop, but we will often get very little to most flops.

Usually, at this level, the only flop where we will double thru is when the villain catches top pair, no more no less. This doesn't happen all that much so I think that messing around with fancy play is unnecessary.

If you had a long history with RND and you think that he thinks you'd only and always 3 bet with AA then there's an argument for the smooth call but I don't think this is the case.

Gholimoli

Mr. Flibble wrote:

Sorry, I misread the hand. We're in position.

Him having a big range is an issue because there is no getting away from the hand to any flop as we have no idea what he has.

.

why would you want to get away from your hand on the flop?
this makes no sense.

also about 3betting .
say you 3bet here ,do you not think he may fold alot of hands that he may play/bet/bluff with post flop alot of which we beat?

valor

If you raise again preflop, its a 4 bet as the blinds count as the first bet

Preflop is a really easy 4 bet becasue you want to get more money in than $5 each and you dont want the guy behind you to get in for cheap to bust you

Postflop is perfect. I also think 3 BB pre-flop is fine.

valor

If villain had re raised to 9 or more, and there was nobody behind you call is fine

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

Mr. Flibble

Gholimoli wrote:

why would you want to get away from your hand on the flop?
this makes no sense.

also about 3betting .
say you 3bet here ,do you not think he may fold alot of hands that he may play/bet/bluff with post flop alot of which we beat?

If I could put him on Q4 its obvious why I would want to get away from this flop.
Because he seems to be able to have any 2 cards then there is no flop which we can get away from.

I don't think its likely that he will bluff off much more than 1 bet if he misses the flop. But we will double him up out draws us.

Usually if somebody minreraises me oop then I peg them as an idiot. And idiots will usually call reraises with alot of hands, so I'm inclined to reraise. Also, a reraise often means the guy has a hand. If we only call and he has TT-QQ (probably 77-QQ if he's crap), we won't get any more from him if an overcard to his pair flops, but we give ourself a chance to get more if we reraise.

Gholimoli

LuckyLloyd wrote:

Ehsan,

I agree that 3 betting is not always good. However, I am certain that it is decent advice as played here. The villian min - raised. By flat calling here you are not getting as much money into the pot pre - flop as we would like. If we had gone to 6/7 with our initial raise and were min - raised it might be good to flat call.. In such a case we would be getting 6 / 7 BBs in to the pot from the villian which is ok. In this specific case, just getting $5 dollars of him pre - flop is not really what we want.

I think we kind of agree overall...

i totally agree and didnt say 3 bettig was bad.
for the reasons you mentioned i agree with 3 betting here i was pointing out though that 3 betting is not always good and slow playing can be very profitable some times.

Gholimoli

Mr. Flibble wrote:

If I could put him on Q4 its obvious why I would want to get away from this flop.
Because he seems to be able to have any 2 cards then there is no flop which we can get away from.

I don't think its likely that he will bluff off much more than 1 bet if he misses the flop. But we will double him up out draws us.

Usually if somebody minreraises me oop then I peg them as an idiot. And idiots will usually call reraises with alot of hands, so I'm inclined to reraise. Also, a reraise often means the guy has a hand. If we only call and he has TT-QQ (probably 77-QQ if he's crap), we won't get any more from him if an overcard to his pair flops, but we give ourself a chance to get more if we reraise.

as i said to loyd i dont think 3betting here is bad.
but the reasons you gave for it are not the reasons why you should 3 bet.
for example him having a wide range is not a valid reason for us to 3 bet.
him having a wide calling range of our 3 bet would be a sound reason to 3 bet.
also you dont know that he dosent bluff.

you have also underrepresented your hand by not 3 betting which would make him think that alot of his hands could be good against us.

Mr. Flibble

Gholimoli wrote:

as i said to loyd i dont think 3betting here is bad.
but the reasons you gave for it are not the reasons why you should 3 bet.
for example him having a wide range is not a valid reason for us to 3 bet.
him having a wide calling range of our 3 bet would be a sound reason to 3 bet.
also you dont know that he dosent bluff.

you have also underrepresented your hand by not 3 betting which would make him think that alot of his hands could be good against us.

Ok. I misunderstood you when you said "Raise more with your initial bet. As played three bet him pre - flop. Slow playing big hands leads to trouble..." isn't sound advice. I thought you were referring the the 3 bet part.

For me, I want to have an idea of the opponent's hand when I have AA, or if thats not an option I want them to pay alot to see a flop. I would perfer them to fold to a reraise (or even better call without the implied odds) with Q4 or 56 or whatever than bust me with it after getting a cheap flop.