Racing Club

decies

anybody know anything about this??
www.bepartofracing.ie

sinndar

Hi Decies,

I am involved with this club. This is a new club.
Website has alot more info now than in Nov when you posted this query.
Three horses lined up for flat, including two previous winners.
Membership costs 12 euro a week. (Less if 2 or more join together).
No extras.
Get togethers, stable visits, etc. are all planned.
Also, a NH horse due to run for the club in the NEXT FORTNIGHT. He will be the club's first runner.
He is trained in co. Waterford ..... and has won and been placed in last 2 months ...

Any other queries, please ask
REgards,
Sinndar

knighted

copied from website-Lee Applause and Andramad are leased until the end of the 2007 flat season. Dahistan is leased from one of the club directors (at no cost). See details of these three below


sorry to reply negativly but leaseing from the director is not good -he doing u no favours- heres the deal- i buy a horse from a field unbroken ,i dont know if it can run skip or jump,i lease it to a club they pay all the bills training fees and entries ,the horse wins two races (or maybe none) and at the end of the lease the original owner takes it back and races it himself or sells for profit -the only winer here is the owner -winning prize money will never filter down to club members as if the horse wins 6 grand and there are 100 members(usually more) u get 60 quid each-bad deal unless ur club or any club for that matter owns the horses they are racing -

and i am speaking from experience-

knighted

copied again-

Members have the option of paying for a full year in advance, or signing up for a monthly direct debit. Up front membership costs €599, and payment by 12 monthly instalments costs €54 per month. All costs are inclusive of V.A.T.

where does the vat come into training fees as there is no vat in irish horse racing at present? is this a company with paid directors submitting accounts to the revenue -thats the only way i can see justification in chargeing vat on a club membership or horse racing fees -clarify please

sinndar

Re the two queries Knighted, ....
The racing club is not paying for the horse that's leased from the director. The director is paying ALL costs of that horse himself. I better make this clearer on the website.

The point you make about the owner is true I suppose, but if it was as simple as that every owner in the country would be at it.
Be Part Of Racing Club is an attempt to get people involved at a low cost … at the end of the day if someone is not going to make a fortune owning horses (which obviously most don’t) all they get out of owning horses is the pleasure of being involved, seeing horses run in their colours, being in the know, …
Being a member of a well run Club will get you these pleasures – for a minimal fee.
The club is an entertainment, and yes, we have registered for VAT. We have a judgement from VAT Inspector that says we miust charge 21% VAT. The benefit of this is that we can claim back VAT on expenses, such as Advertising, Training Fees (ARE VAT able at 2.1%), Telephone costs, etc.
The benefit of claiming VAT back on expenses of the club means that more money is available for Club expenses – the training of the horses … one will counteract the other really.
Be Part Of Racing Club is still cheaper than the other two main racing clubs in Ireland I’ve heard of … bothat 1000 per annum, money up front.
And we have these horses in training NOW … we’re not hanging around waiting for members before committing to training horses.
Join!!!!??
We’ll have a stall at Gowran Park this Sat, in the middle level bar in main stand if anyone would like to chat to us …

knighted

again sorry about the negativity but i think u should tell people u are a company not a club -there is a difference

my local gaa club is a club u are a limited company operating for profit yes -


Type
Company

Number 423400

Name
BE PART OF RACING CLUB LIMITED

Address
C/O O' REILLY & CO
4A OWENABUE MALL
CARRIGALINE
CO. CORK

Registered
11/07/2006

Status
Normal

Effective date: 11/07/2006

Last AR Date
11/01/2007


Next AR Date
11/01/2008

The 'Next AR Date' refers to the statutory Annual Return Date (ARD). This is a date after 1 March 2002 to which an annual return should be made up. If a company has annual returns outstanding for previous years the obligation to file these returns is a continuing one.

Last Accounts To Date
N/A

---

definitions of club and company

8. Clubs

There is no limit to the number of members of a club. A minimum of two and maximum of four trustees of the Club must register as owners. The nominated Trustees (maximum of four) of the Club must each complete the following forms:

Form of Application for Owner Registration
(details as for single owner) if not already registered owners.
In addition the following information is also required:

A copy if Rules and Constitution of Club. It is recommended that the rules include a Dissolution Clause which states that should the club be disbanded, all fees owing to Horse Racing Ireland will be paid as a priority.
A list of club members names and addresses. This list must be complete and current.
An undertaking, in writing, to supply the Registry Office with a list of all new members after registration.
Name and address of club bankers.
Name and address of club solicitors.
Names of Club trustees. Up to four trustees may register. Each must complete an owner application form however, only one must complete the Authority to Act and Colour Registration sections.
Date of Club Foundation.
Details of past and present officers (if applicable).
A minimum opening balance of €800 from which the following initial deductions shall be made

---

9. Company

A company may own and run a horse in its name subject to approval. The company must appoint an agent who must be registered as an owner. It is recommended that this person should be a Company Director or Company Secretary. The following information is required for the registration of a company:

When applying to register a company for racing purposes please forward the following documentation:

Copy of Certificate of Incorporation
Copy of Memorandum and Articles of Association
A list of names and addresses of company directors and shareholders. (Not required for a public limited company).
A copy of the minute certifying the appointment of a Registered Agent. This must be issued under seal and the Registered Agent should be a representative of the company ie: secretary or director. A recognised Company shall only be entitled to exercise the power of an owner through the registered agent.
Copy of the latest Balance sheet and Profit and Loss account (if applicable).
The Registered Agent must complete an Owner Application Form.
A1/B1 Form (if applicable).
A1 - this is the initial Company setup form which contains a list of the directors (new)
B1 - this is an annual return form to the Companies office listing the directors (existing)
B10 - this is an amendment form which contains any changes to the Directors listed on the A1 or B1, whichever is the most recently filed, which can be filed at any time.
A minimum opening balance of €800 must be lodged in addition to the Company Registration fee of €500.00
The appointed Agent must complete the following registration forms:

---

and rule 15 lifted from ur website

15 - It is understood by the Member;

i - Full legal and equitable title to the horses who run in the Club’s colours, and all such other horses acquired by the Club from time to time remains at all times with the Club
ii - at no time does the Member have a legal or equitable interest in any one or more of the horses referred to above (or any share thereof); and

sinndar

CLEARLY stated on the Terms and Conditions .... on the website:

"Terms and Conditions of Membership

Be Part Of Racing Club Limited (company number 423400) ("the Club") (Trading Name ‘Be Part Of Racing’) confers on the Member (for the duration of his membership with the Club) certain benefits associated with the Club's ownership/ leasing of the horses currently in training. The benefits are as follows:- ..............."

There is no issue here. YES we are a company.
Just like 'Elite Racing Club' in the UK
We have been working on setting this up for a year now. We had Shona Dreaper, owner adviser of HRI travel 150 miles to come and meet us, she was so up for supporting us.
We are offering a choice to those who want to get involved in racehorse ownership for less than the price of 3 pints a week - and have an interest in currently three /four horses (one new horse in pipeline - he'll run in two weeks).

I know you don't mean to be negative, but where exactly are you going with all of this? It certainly comes across negatively.

Genco

The people at HRI never cease to pull out all the stops to help.

Only ever had limited dealings with them but they have all been pleasurable.

GL with your endeavours

knighted

sinndar wrote:

CLEARLY stated on the Terms and Conditions .... on the website:

"Terms and Conditions of Membership

Be Part Of Racing Club Limited (company number 423400) ("the Club") (Trading Name ‘Be Part Of Racing’) confers on the Member (for the duration of his membership with the Club) certain benefits associated with the Club's ownership/ leasing of the horses currently in training. The benefits are as follows:- ..............."

There is no issue here. YES we are a company.
Just like 'Elite Racing Club' in the UK
We have been working on setting this up for a year now. We had Shona Dreaper, owner adviser of HRI travel 150 miles to come and meet us, she was so up for supporting us.
We are offering a choice to those who want to get involved in racehorse ownership for less than the price of 3 pints a week - and have an interest in currently three /four horses (one new horse in pipeline - he'll run in two weeks).

I know you don't mean to be negative, but where exactly are you going with all of this? It certainly comes across negatively.

where im going with this is simple -if u troll the boards for free advertising u have to be prepared to come under scrutiny-ur purpose here is to tell people what a great deal this is and how much fun social enjoyment etc they will get from it-which i agree with to a certain extent -but my purpose here is to tell people the other side of things like the difference between a 'company' and a club-u have directors who will financially gain from this -u are not doing this for the good of all ur members or 'customers'-u are selling them something ie enjoyment-if ur company is sucessful ur members will not gain u will -however if this was a genuine club ur members would gain thru the sucess of the club financially plus they would have a say in things -the way things stand ur directors call the shots and will no doubt be on 'expenses'
etc

u posted the link to ur webpage on a free board and if u dont expect negativity then i suggest not posting anymore or pay for it thru a recognised medium within the horseracing community .

as for shona dreaper travelling 150 miles that is her job -there are 30 companies registered with hri and 36 clubs (as in with trustees not directors )

and again when u posted the link i started to look into it and i am giving my view to the other board members on my take on ur offer-im sure people will make up there own minds but i am giving advice -sorry if it takes the gloss off ur advert but its something u have to live with as stated before this is a free board where everyone has the right to reply positivly or negativly .

good luck with ur venture

sinndar

Knighted ….

Doing a google search for Be Part Of Racing I came across the original query from decies above, which I replied to genuinely.

I had never known boards.ie existed until then.

You are totally incorrect with your accusation that I am trawling any boards looking for free ads. I pay for my ads.

Decies posted the original link to the website.

I am a realistic sort of person, and am not surprised at negativity.

Thanks for your good luck wishes, and good luck yourself.

mickc

knighted wrote:

winning prize money will never filter down to club members as if the horse wins 6 grand and there are 100 members(usually more) u get 60 quid each-bad deal unless ur club or any club for that matter owns the horses they are racing -

and i am speaking from experience-

And in the case of this company/club the prize money isn't even shared with members.

Like most I would love to be involved in ownership of a horse but havent come across a way to do it just yet that appeals to me.
Although my neighbours horse jumped into my Dads field last week.. hmmm the wall was about a 4 foot 6 and a half inches high.

masterK

mickc wrote:

And in the case of this company/club the prize money isn't even shared with members.

If that is true then what exactly do you get for your money?

fade2black

@Sinndar

I think Knighted's involvement in this thread has been very useful for all concerned. People need to know as much as possible about a venture before they even think about joining, not just the sugar coated invitation.

However, as you say you are only replying to decies original question so I personally wouldn't call what you're doing trolling as you have every right to defend your company.

You should take all of knighted's comments on board though, this way you'll be more prepared for the questions you'll no doubt receive on Saturday.

mickc

Well after reading through the website and the terms and conditions, it doesnt say anywhere that the profits are divided. For the most part a lot of the text is similar to elite racing's site but omitting the shared profits part.

If I was wrong in my assumption i apologise in advance.

I agree with FTB that knighted's comments are useful and unless it goes against forum policy I ask could he fill us in more on his experience with syndicates etc?

knighted

my experience with sydicates is that i have been involved with them -i now have horses in training as sole owner plus one as a partner ship-

syndicates are brilliant once it is with friends or like minded people and at least one of them should be competent in all aspects of racing ie rules balloting jugdeing horses chances etc-that way for the less experienced members some of the knowledge can be passed on and u can learn something other than just watching and backing -its great to share the highs and lows of racecourse exploits with friends

but trainers see syndicates as a way of paying the bills -plain and simple u can get rode backwards with some of the top yards -some think its prestigeous to have a horse with a top yard and be associated with it -in reality u are just the gilly throwing 10 or twenty quid each aweek into the horse and yard -obviously its not the case across the board but in general thats what can and does happen -thats the advantage of having a competant person in ur syndicate

at this moment i know of about 10 horses i could get on a free lease down around the curragh -if i was to ask im sure i would be offered more-but u should always aim to own the horse urselfs that way if there is financal gain its urs but financal gain is rare but at least u call the shots -if u lease a horse and it does well it goes back to the owner and they gain -u have put all the effort and money in at the most expensive time in the horses development

horses are available to the ordinary man on the street nowadays cause i am one of them -i have a job like everyone else but instead of maybe drinking or gambling i route the money towards training fees etc

i bought my first horse for 3 grand and she won 20 odd grand so paid for itself and will get a return as she now a brood mare

goffs horses in training is on at the moment www.goffs.ie look at the sale results and i gaurantee u will find something within ur budget-dont forget if u buy off a trainer they are putting there profit on top of what they paid for it and that could be double-also when on the racingpost website looking at a horses form click on the tab that says sales and see what each of them was bought or sold for -

a small yard on the curragh can train a horse for u for 200 euros a week absolute max 250 euros so if u have 10 lads thats 25 quid a week or a round of drinks -if u pay between 10 and 15 grand for a well bred nh prospect its still only 1500 euros initial outlay -(but that should be top end for a first horse)bout the cost of ur summer holiday-so u see it can be done and u will own the animal -

if anyone wants futher info or help setting up a syndicate please ask as i would be only too willing to help or point u in the right direction so u wont get buggered-but be prepared for brutal honesty -as only 5 % of horses who make it to the racetrack ever win a race

Cantoris

Certainly interesting reading and I have tracked the progress of Bepartofracing and Byerley. Leasing horses provides a quick, easy option for enjoying racing. No capital outlay, ready to run etc. This suits certain people.
However, I don't like these all-in deals. I have looked at a number of these types of clubs and believe they are incredibly good opportunities for those running them to enjoy their horses while someone else pays for them with the kicker of making a few bob out of it too.
I've been involved in a few syndicates myself and am managing one at the moment. a mix of former work colleagues, relatives and complete strangers. Simple model.....total transparency. Members pay what it costs and I charge an admin fee. All members are happy with this as they know exactly what I get out of it and exactly how much it costs to train the horse. They get a stable visit every six to eight weeks, a call or email from me every two/three weeks. Annual accounts and full supporting invoices. All we need is the horse to have some ability and given it is the most important part, we forked out 35k for the last one but he is showing a lot of potential and is due to run over the next few weeks (fingers crossed). Most people don't like feelinig hoodwinked, even if they are not and it puts a lot of people off all in deals and leasing. If it looks cheap, it probably is. A one tenth share in my last syndicate would be costing you 4k to acquire and 1-2k per annum (depending on whether in or out of training and number of runs).
It is horses for courses and depends on how much cash you have. Leasing may be your only, and good option. But if you have a few quid more, it is worth joining a transparent syndicate with a decent trainer and manager. If anyone is interested in getting further info on one of my syndicates, I can pass on. No guarantee we will buy anything as we generally look at the Land Rover and Derby Sale and if they are not worth the cash, nothing will be bought. but have been very lucky at those two sales before so looking forward to some long days in June and July.

knighted

u must be into the flat side of things -i tend to stay away from that side of things national hunt for me -i find i can get more longevity out of a nh horse but that is just my personal choice

for 35 or 40 grand i could go down to gilltown stud and buy maybe two 3 yos from the aga khan stock ready enuff to go hurdling

http://www.agakhanstuds.com/sale/winners.asp

scoll down thru horses sold from 4grand right thru to 100 grand but more around the 20 grand mark

they are there to be got if u look hard enuff

keepitquiet

knighted wrote:

i bought my first horse for 3 grand and she won 20 odd grand so paid for itself and will get a return as she now a brood mare

congrats, what was this horse called?

kincsem

I paid into one of these racing clubs. The pitch was ...... the members pay the training, vet fees, entries ...... and collect any prizemoney won during the time they are paying those fees.

One of the horses won four times (over €100k). Did we get a dividend? The reply was that the horse was registered in the Turf Club under the owner's name, and prizemoney is paid to the owner. We paid the fees and got nil.

masterK

kincsem wrote:

I paid into one of these racing clubs. The pitch was ...... the members pay the training, vet fees, entries ...... and collect any prizemoney won during the time they are paying those fees.

One of the horses won four times (over €100k). Did we get a dividend? The reply was that the horse was registered in the Turf Club under the owner's name, and prizemoney is paid to the owner. We paid the fees and got nil.

Had you not got a legal case against the owner if the terms of membership specified that you would be entitled to collect a portion of the prizemoney?

Cantoris

knighted wrote:

u must be into the flat side of things -i tend to stay away from that side of things national hunt for me -i find i can get more longevity out of a nh horse but that is just my personal choice

for 35 or 40 grand i could go down to gilltown stud and buy maybe two 3 yos from the aga khan stock ready enuff to go hurdling

Funnily enough, I am only into National Hunt. More power to you if you have an eye to pick out an extremely nice horse on a consistent basis for 3k. I much prefer to pay good money for a good quality horse as they tend to get fewer injuries (as better conformation). Our trainer picks them out and he is interested in horses that look racy, good movers, right size, right build....and isn't too purturbed if the breeding isn't in the book although he does know what he likes and dislikes as he knows a lot of his fellow trainers and they talk to each other about breeding. Different strokes for different folks I think Knighted.

As for the racing club that won 100k in prizemoney and didn't see a penny of it, I protect my members by registering them all for the horse - although I am down as manager - and they are all on the bank account. That way they are entitled to a share of everything and it is great protection for other members that if there is a deficit in the bank account, they are not left holding the baby when a few members head for the hills!! Although six monthly payments in advance tend to help cashflow. The most important part of any syndicate is getting the right people involved. I am careful about who I let in and everyone is fully aware of the madness of buying a horse!!

mickc

35k for your last horse is a lot of money cantoris, I hope he runs well!!

Just out of curiousity, how much did u pay for your first horse?

terry mac

Cantoris wrote:

Funnily enough, I am only into National Hunt. More power to you if you have an eye to pick out an extremely nice horse on a consistent basis for 3k. I much prefer to pay good money for a good quality horse as they tend to get fewer injuries (as better conformation). Our trainer picks them out and he is interested in horses that look racy, good movers, right size, right build....and isn't too purturbed if the breeding isn't in the book although he does know what he likes and dislikes as he knows a lot of his fellow trainers and they talk to each other about breeding. Different strokes for different folks I think Knighted.

There's as many good horses that went for 3k than went for 30k. The sales is really a contrived market. For breeders, stables, the horses biggest day is the sales. s. Goffs especially is the biggest closed shop. To get in on the right day you need to know the right people in there. Go down to the Land Rover sale and you'll see a bunch of the so-called "top Irish trainers" inpecting horses, making them pace etc, thinking that they have the eye for the horse. When I hear people (prospective owners) going on about "good confirmation" or "good bone structure" its time to get yourself a proper trainer.

Cantoris

£15k punts in 2001, €35k in 2005. The difference has been inflation in horse sales. 20% per annum. I don't think it is expensive. Fro me the most important cost is the horse itself. If you pay 10k, you may get lucky but there is a very good reason it is worth 10k and I know a lot of people who went down that route, some with more success that others and a few that bombed out completely. I'm not saying it's the right way to do it but if you are in a syndicate of 10, the difference between buying a good looking horse for 35k and something a lot less appealing for 15k is only 2k a person. And vet bills mount up if things go wrong. Think of Feathered Lady. Brilliant but the worst legs in the world and that's why she sold for 3k in sales. She was constantly injured but was lucky enough to win a clatter of races. For every one of her, there must be a hundred that don't make it, even to the racecourse. But as I said, it's really diufferent strokes for different folks and if you can make it work for 10k then don't change a winning formula.

Cantoris

terry mac wrote:

There's as many good horses that went for 3k than went for 30k. The sales is really a contrived market. For breeders, stables, the horses biggest day is the sales. s. Goffs especially is the biggest closed shop. To get in on the right day you need to know the right people in there. Go down to the Land Rover sale and you'll see a bunch of the so-called "top Irish trainers" inpecting horses, making them pace etc, thinking that they have the eye for the horse. When I hear people (prospective owners) going on about "good confirmation" or "good bone structure" its time to get yourself a proper trainer.

Partially true as you see some horses that just shouldn't be there. But to say that the look of an animal is not important is completely rubbish. Would you buy a horse that is back of the knee? Maybe but you know when you buy it that the chances of it incurring an injury increase exponentially. The first objective in racing is to have a sound horse. If it's not sound it doesn't matter what it cost. What we do is forget about breeding and concentrate on horses that should (we hope) remain sound. After that, no on has a clue how fast they will run. And you are likely to pick up a Native Upmanship for 6k but for 40k you could have bought either Hardy Eustace, Central House or Brave Inca at the 2001 Land Rover!! BTW, it is a sale I do like.

knighted

Cantoris wrote:

£15k punts in 2001, €35k in 2005. The difference has been inflation in horse sales. 20% per annum. I don't think it is expensive. Fro me the most important cost is the horse itself. If you pay 10k, you may get lucky but there is a very good reason it is worth 10k and I know a lot of people who went down that route, some with more success that others and a few that bombed out completely. I'm not saying it's the right way to do it but if you are in a syndicate of 10, the difference between buying a good looking horse for 35k and something a lot less appealing for 15k is only 2k a person. And vet bills mount up if things go wrong. Think of Feathered Lady. Brilliant but the worst legs in the world and that's why she sold for 3k in sales. She was constantly injured but was lucky enough to win a clatter of races. For every one of her, there must be a hundred that don't make it, even to the racecourse. But as I said, it's really diufferent strokes for different folks and if you can make it work for 10k then don't change a winning formula.

i have to justify only spend 3k-lol
going thru the cheltenham entries i found ashley brook sold for 3 grand

central house 6 grand- newmill 14 grand -tumbling dice 13 k-watson lake 11 grand-BRAVE INCA WAS BOUGHT FOR 1600 GUINEAS been in the sales four times and top or last price was 8 grand -fethard was sold for 589 GUINEAS -

knighted

Cantoris wrote:

£15k punts in 2001, €35k in 2005. The difference has been inflation in horse sales. 20% per annum. I don't think it is expensive. Fro me the most important cost is the horse itself. If you pay 10k, you may get lucky but there is a very good reason it is worth 10k and I know a lot of people who went down that route, some with more success that others and a few that bombed out completely. I'm not saying it's the right way to do it but if you are in a syndicate of 10, the difference between buying a good looking horse for 35k and something a lot less appealing for 15k is only 2k a person. And vet bills mount up if things go wrong. Think of Feathered Lady. Brilliant but the worst legs in the world and that's why she sold for 3k in sales. She was constantly injured but was lucky enough to win a clatter of races. For every one of her, there must be a hundred that don't make it, even to the racecourse. But as I said, it's really diufferent strokes for different folks and if you can make it work for 10k then don't change a winning formula.

HARDY EUSTACE WAS SOLD FOR 12 GRAND -JAZZ MESSENGER 15 GRAND -MACS JOY WITHDRAWN AT 1700 -BEEF OR SALMON LESS THAN 4K
-KINGSCLIFF 2400 GUINEAS-NIL DESPARANDUM 3K-STATE OF PLAY 9K

AND HERES ONE I LIKE -GOLD CUP WINNER WAR OF ATTRICIAN WAS SOLD FOR TWO GRAND ON 9TH NOV 99 TO RICHARD ROHAN AT TATTS THEN PASSED ON TO GER HOURIGAN ON 27 JUNE 2002 FOR 8764 GNS AGAIN AT TATTS -WONDER WAS THIS THE CHEAPEST GOLD CUP WINNER EVER SOLD

LOL-AS U SAY EACH TO THERE OWN BUT U CAN SEE WHERE I COMING FROM ONLY BUYING AT THE LOWER END

knighted

cantoris hope u dont think i was getting at u -quite the opposite -if u read back thru my posts i mentioned that a syndicate should have at least one competent person and u seem to be it in ur syndicate -what we will have to disagree on is price of horses lol-but im sure we can both live with that-

any one get the irish field ?turn to page 30 - 600 euro horse wins grade 1 at leopardstown last week good reading (mr top notch)

Cantoris

knighted wrote:

BRAVE INCA WAS BOUGHT FOR 1600 GUINEAS been in the sales four times and top or last price was 8 grand

Incorrect!! And I should know. Last price 14,500 Irish punts - lot 242 at Land Rover 2001 sale.

Hardy sold at the same sale for 16k, Central House for 21k.

You can buy a bean for two cents, put it in the ground, nuture it for a few years and sell the produce for two euros. It's the same with horses. The last price is ultimately the one that is interesting as it is the one that includes two to three years keep and a risk premium for keeping a horse for that period of timie.

As I said, if you can make it work for 3k then I do applaud you. I'm not that good at it and neither is my trainer (although he has been at that end before). If you have the cash, it gives you far more choice and it must give you a better chance.....whether that turns out to be the case or not is different. Take Feathered Lady. She was lucky to have won what she did as she has a bunch of crooked legs. For every one Feathered success there are a hundred that have broken down due to their frailties which are known to the purchaser at time of purchase. But horses for courses I say and good luck with picking out that one in a million.

knighted

if ur trainer was a true horse man and not someone who gets horses fit and trains them then he could walk in to a field full of horses for sale unbroken and come to the same conclusion that u can come to at any sale-

my prices are correct -click on to there name in racing post click sales tabs and u will get there prices on all there sales dates

for example

BRAVE INCA (IRE) 9-y-o (20 Apr 1998) b g
NOTEPAD
Trainer: C A Murphy Owner: Novices Syndicate
Breeder: D W Macauley
Good Thyne(USA) (14.1f) - Wigwam Mam(IRE) (Commanche Run(11.6f))

My Notes Form Statistics Entries Wins Sales Charts Relatives Quotes

7 Jun 2001 Goffs 8,386gns Cash
4 Nov 1999 Tattersalls Ireland (Gbp) 6,500gns Not Sold
8 Feb 1999 Goffs 2,683gns Cash
9 Nov 1998 Tattersalls Ireland (Gbp) 1,600gns Gerad Brady




origanally bought for 1600 gns on 9th nov 1998
last thru the ring 7th june 2001 8369gns cash

Cantoris

knighted wrote:

origanally bought for 1600 gns on 9th nov 1998
last thru the ring 7th june 2001 8369gns cash

What currency? Everything looks cheaper in sterling from a UK website. Trust me, I was there when the hammer went down on lot 242 - 14,500 Irish punts.

Same could be said for every trainer in the country.....so why does anyone go to the sales.....simple.....you can look at a lot of horses over seven or eight hours rather than trouping around the country looking for one or two. I guarantee, if pur trainer heard of a nice on sitting in a field somewhere for the rigth price, he would go and look at it. But there is not much of a difference between sales prices and what you pay from a field. The good uns cost a bit either way.

snowydot

I cant get over how much racing club costs, I would like to know how many members there are and are they actually assigned a certain percentage of each horse? How many horses are there? Is it leasing or ownership?

I can see why some people get sticky and are wary about leasing horses but I'll explain from an owners side. For example I have 2 well bred 2yo's this year home bred and each of them has the potential ability to do something on the track. I dont want to sell them but there is no way I could afford 50,000(thats an all in figure travel, vet insurance etc) to have them both trained for a year. I'm realistic in that most likely scenario is that they wont do anything and i've made it clear to anyone who has gone in on them for the year that you don't go into racing expecting a profit, in fact expect to lose everything you put in.i've been very lucky to have had some involvement with some very good horses but that is the exception rather than the rule. Fact is well over 70% maybe more of horses struggle to win races. I have a sydicate of 20 put together for a years lease of the two at a cost of 2500(that 2 horses) all in not an extorsionate amount everyone has an equal share and if we pick up one half decent maiden for each we might break even.

Ownership of N/H or flat horses in Ireland is light years behind the hospitality shown by english courses, we as a nation are one of the major producers of T/B's in the world yet we do not have enough racing at home courses, whats the point of a trainer readying a horse just for it to be balloted out time and time again! Charming as a mixed N/H flat meeting is we have enough horses in the country to have two seperate meeting. It all well and good saying that lowly rated horses and lower class racing should be done away with(i'm not a huge fan of it myself), the facts are the owners want them trained and many trainers need the business. Roll on the Dundalk AW

snowydot

I cant get over how much racing club costs, I would like to know how many members there are and are they actually assigned a certain percentage of each horse? How many horses are there? Is it leasing or ownership?

I can see why some people get sticky and are wary about leasing horses but I'll explain from an owners side. For example I have 2 well bred 2yo's this year home bred and each of them has the potential ability to do something on the track. I dont want to sell them but there is no way I could afford 50,000(thats an all in figure travel, vet insurance etc) to have them both trained for a year. I'm realistic in that most likely scenario is that they wont do anything and i've made it clear to anyone who has gone in on them for the year that you don't go into racing expecting a profit, in fact expect to lose everything you put in.i've been very lucky to have had some involvement with some very good horses but that is the exception rather than the rule. Fact is well over 70% maybe more of horses struggle to win races. I have a sydicate of 20 put together for a years lease of the two at a cost of 2500(that 2 horses) all in not an extorsionate amount everyone has an equal share and if we pick up one half decent maiden for each we might break even.

Ownership of N/H or flat horses in Ireland is light years behind the hospitality shown by english courses, we as a nation are one of the major producers of T/B's in the world yet we do not have enough racing at home courses, whats the point of a trainer readying a horse just for it to be balloted out time and time again! Charming as a mixed N/H flat meeting is we have enough horses in the country to have two seperate meeting. It all well and good saying that lowly rated horses and lower class racing should be done away with(i'm not a huge fan of it myself), the facts are the owners want them trained and many trainers need the business. Roll on the Dundalk AW

knighted

prices quoted are in guineas -the universal currency of horses not sterling

anyway the only thing we will prob agree on is to disagree and each to there own -if every one agreed with each other it would be a boring place -best of luck anyway and if i see u at the sales im gonna put the reserve up by 10 grand lol-

Cantoris

There are a lot of horses in Ireland and I hope that Dundalk will help to take the lower grade horses away from premier tracks and particularly away from maiden and handicap hurdles. The number of six furlong ex-flat horses running in maiden hurdles is amazing. At least now they will have an option to go for lower class racing in dundalk during the winter.

With regard to your two youngsters, best of luck with them this year. It is certainly frustrating when you have a few good home breds but struggle with cash flow. I'm not sure whether it would be something I would be interested in as I would prefer to own a share in the horse but for anyone who wants to have a taste of the flat with some racy two year olds, it prob isn't a bad way to start. I would prob query 25k each, given it is now feb and likely to only race until Nov so why would anyone pay from Nov to start of next season. Thats only 9 months now so prob 15k would be sufficient, depending on who is training. You have a trainer in mind?

Cantoris

knighted wrote:

prices quoted are in guineas -the universal currency of horses not sterling
QUOTE]
Not actually correct either. A guinea is 1.05 times whatever currency it is in so if you are in Ireland bidding a guinea is 1.05 times one euro and you will see this on the board, with a sterling price below. In UK, it is 1.05 times the sterling price, with euro price shown below. Racing Post always quote in sterling. Look at the value of prizemoney and it is quoted in sterling not euros. And once again, I assure you that Brave Inca cost 14,500 as it came out of a bank account I see!

snowydot

Thanks Cantoris that was an all in figure (hopefully to cover any eventuality) they have been in Pre training since last Oct thats when the whole thing was set up (i'm not going to mention who there with) and whatevers left in the account at the end of the lease is split between everyone. Would have loved to send the filly to Bolger (that man can train fillies) but he's a hard man to get. As far as trainers at the minute i'd be a fan of Peter Casey, Francis Ennis and will be keeping a close eye on Tracey Collins. I suppose the reason I like them are that they are not afraid to take on the big stables if they think they have a horse good enough.

I think leasing is a good way to have a taste of the game, I would be wary of a lot of lease horses myself, owners have to much control and usually have the trainers picked out and know more information about the horse than the people paying the bills, but like anything if it's set up fairly and the proper documentation (lease agreements and some form of legal agreemnet documentation) it can be a nice introduction.

As far as quality of horses racing I did find the new rules brought in to weed out the lower quality horses are a good idea but as you said it's forcing poor quality flat horse into the NH sphere thats why your getting poor flat maidens who are no longer aloud to run on the flat going over hurdles. This cant be a good thing

Maruco

I've just stumbled across this site and low and behold an old friend of mine is posting.

How are you Cantoris?

For those unsure of the price Inca was bought for, I can categorically assure you Cantoris knows.

Anway Cantoris if your not sure who this is here's a clue. Make sure you set the alarm nice and early on the 13th and I'll see you bright and early in The Plough for the start of your historic day!

knighted

lol -best of luck to ye -enjoy ur day -question out of curiosity-were you not tempted to take the 400k?-

Cantoris

knighted wrote:

lol -best of luck to ye -enjoy ur day -question out of curiosity-were you not tempted to take the 400k?-

Depends on which offer you are talking about. If it is the one I am thinking of, no, it was a bit of a joke and someone trying to take advantage of the situation. The later offers were both harder and easier to refuse!!

knighted

fair play to ye -not easy to turn down apparently big money and i know what u mean about people trying to take advantage but u have to live with these guys -i had heard a particular bloodstock agent had it 'sold' in england to a northern owner and trainer combo but think they were talking bull -anyway i mean it when i wish u all the best of luck in two weeks time but u must be getting used to the big days out now lol

good luck