Dimension vs. Optiplex

MT

In my quest to get up to speed with the pros and cons of various crappy old computers I'm now wondering which are superior - Dell's Dimensions or Optiplexs? On another thread someone posted that the newer Dimensions were actually not as good as the preceding models, is this true?

I've seen a Dimension going for a similar price to an Optiplex but the newer model has slightly higher specs. The Dimension has a 2.8ghz cpu and 1gb ram as opposed to 2.6 and 512 for the Optiplex. Would the higher specs of the former make up for the models lower quality?

Also, is it advisable to buy a computer that has Windows XP installed, a licence for the software, but no cds? What if it all goes wrong - I know, I know, there's probably a more technically savy term but that's the best I can manage at the mo. - how would you reinstall the software? Would a cdrw alleviate this problem by allowing you to ?burn? the installed version of Windows onto blank cds?

Finally, is there much of difference in the qualities of Windows 2000 and Windows XP? I could probably get a pc with the former OS for less but then I'm not sure if that version of Windows is a glitch ridden piece of obsolete rubbish. Then again, that probably describes the hardware I'll be purchasing.:rolleyes:

MT

I've read that Dell Small Form Factor pcs are difficult to upgrade? Why is this the case? Is it because of the hardware used or simply the restriction placed on space for new stuff by the small size of the case? If it's the latter would a larger tower type case be preferable to the SFF desktops?

Cuddlesworth

Optiplex's are SSF pc's and are harder to upgrade but more compact and sleeker. For example, I wanted a dual display on my pc in work, so have paid close to 120 euro for a pci half height gfx carf with a half height backing plate. On a normal pc it would have been 40 quid and I would not have spent 4 hours looking for a suitable one.

petes

Dimension machines are more geared towards home users whereas optiplexes are more geared towards business users. They usually use "network optimised" as a term for the optiplex machines. And not all optiplex's are sff's.

As for getting no os cds dell install recovery software which will restore your computer to the factory state on a hidden partition.

MT

Hmmm, now knowing that Dell SFF desk tops are difficult and costly to upgrade has given me pause for thought.

Having looked around a bit more I've spotted a PC with these specs on adverts.ie:

HP Compaq dx 6100 MT
P4 2.80 Ghz
512MB Ram 3200
Western Digital 80 GB HD
onboard graphics Card
CD RW/DVD ROM
onboard sound
6 USB
floppy drive

The seller has agreed to 200Euros for this, the tower, on its own. Would this model be easier to upgrade, not being a SFF and all? And secondly, how does HP Compaq compare to Dell for quality?

Ps. I know where I can get a mouse and keyboard for this PC for next to nothing but are ?peripherals? like keyboards and mice made to be universally compatible with any make of PC?

Also, how do you install new hardware like a mouse and keyboard if you don't have a mouse and keyboard to begin with? Can you just plug them in and go?

MT

Anyone have any thoughts on my queries? I know it's probably tiresome responding to what are most likely very simple issues for much more knowledgeable PC people but I'm really in the dark here. I don't want to end up buying a large biege paperweight.

TempestSabre

I've been using Dells for many years both at home and in big organisations, I must have installed/worked on hundreds and hundreds of them over the years, from 386's to the latest Dual Cores. In my opinion for the home users, theres hardly any difference I can see between Optiplexs and Dimensions of the same spec, other than Optiplex are much more expensive for no real reason.

However there any many different models in both ranges and you have to look careful to see what features are in each range. The optiplex range from PCS that are the same as the dimensions to some which are much more advanced. They would have more business/advanced options like scsi drives, advanced RAID cards, backup options, dual/quad cpus, Xeon processes, OpenGL cards, dual and quad screens, better montors ECC memory, faster memory, and motherboards that can take more ram (more ram slots) and more HD's, faster drives 10k, SCSI, and SAS/SCSI and much more powerful PSU's. Choice of OS is different and the support options would be different too.

For the majority of home users or business users, you'll never need any of that and you really won't take advantage of any of these incredibly expensive features, and often a dimension of a similar spec will be as fast if not faster playing games and multimedia applications.

For example I've an older dual xeon 2.4ghz optiplex, with an open GL card at work and my home single 3Ghz dimension is much faster at most things I do, games etc. yet it cost a quarter of the price of the optiplex.

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

I’ve been told that any Optiplex model/spec is guaranteed to be available from Dell for a certain length of time (e.g. 1 year). Dimension can change anytime. Not sure if its true though.

ambrose :cool:

Zascar

I used to work for dell and sold thousdands of each so any questions let me know.

Basically for a home user a dimension is fine. For a business user I would definitely recommend Optiplex. Any large company that buys from Dell will only ever buy optiplex.

Several reasons:
- They come with a 3 year Next Business Day Warranty as standard (apart from the 210L) - You hvae to pay extra for this on the Dimensions.
- They are supported on networks - if you call up for networking support on a dimension they will not help you.
- They come with XP Pro as standard - option to downgrade to XP Home with small saving.
- Option to buy "Business Support" for a small fee, higher level of tech support (irish engineers), shorter queues and one technical acount manager where possible.
- I believe the you can have an image that works across all models which is very handy if you are managing a lot of them. Also they can be netowrk managed easily by an IT support administrator.
- There is a RoadMap for changes and upgrades to the product range - dimensions can change month on month. Parts will be availible for a long time.

They are a little more expensive, and Dell makes more profit on them, but you will be able to get a bigger discount on an Optiplex - you will be lucky to get much of a discount on a Dimension. The sales reps are incentivised to sell them over Dimensions too so you'll usually get a few quid off.

hope that helps

stevenmu

TempestSabre wrote:

In my opinion for the home users, theres hardly any difference I can see between Optiplexs and Dimensions of the same spec, other than Optiplex are much more expensive for no real reason.

There is in fact a reason, altough it's not a very good one

Once, after spending half an hour trying to convince me to get some optiplexes instead of dimensions for the office the sales eventually admitted that they're basically the exact same. The difference is that because optiplexes are aimed at business users, who buy very few add-ons and peripherals, they have to jack up the price to make any profit. Dimensions are aimed at home users, so they're priced so low that they make practically no profit on them to get people to buy a PC in the first place and then they make their profit on the upgrades, add-ons and peripherals.

Long story short buy dimensions over optiplexes, they're the exact same thing just cheaper. (occasionally due to special offers and optiplex might work out cheaper but only rarely).

Zascar

stevenmu wrote:

Long story short buy dimensions over optiplexes, they're the exact same thing just cheaper.

Not true. They use better class of motherboards and some other components. For 90% of home users Dimensions are fine, business users should be able to recognise the added value in spending a little more.

TempestSabre

I love the idea that the optiplex's are a "little bit more expensive"

MT

Thanks for the fascinating replies guys, even if some were a little over my head. I think I'd lean towards the Optiplex on reading these - remember, the models I'm looking at are a number of years old and second hand so they're all quite cheap.

What do you think of the model going for 200Euros I described earlier:

HP Compaq dx 6100 MT
P4 2.80 Ghz
512MB Ram 3200
Western Digital 80 GB HD
onboard graphics Card
CD RW/DVD ROM
onboard sound
6 USB
floppy drive

How would this HP Compaq compare to a Dell of similiar vintage and price?

TempestSabre

Depends if the spec is the same. A brand new machine of a similar spec is probably only a tiny bit more.

MT

Don't take this the wrong way but could you explain that a bit more Tempest, I'm a bit confused. Do you mean if the spec is the same as a Dell? The Dells I'm looking at for that price have a slightly lower spec, so would this HP be better? But even if the specs were identical which would be the superior brand, second hand, given all else being equal?

Where would you get a brand new version of that HP new - are they still sold? I thought that older models were taken off the market being replaced by the companies newer brands. Is this not the case? Do they still make and sell the older version I've been looking at on ebay?

TempestSabre

I actually meant you can get a new dell for not much more, (off the dell outlet store anyway). Personally between HP and Dell I get which ever is the better spec, within the budget. IMO there is no qualitative difference between the brands.

At the end of the day it really depends on what you are going to be doing with it. If it was just word processing you could do that on a 486.

duridian

I'd agree with Tempest that you would probably be better spending a bit more and getting something (new) from the Dell Outlet.
For example I was looking at a C521 machine this evening which had an Athlon 64 3800 processor, 1gig of ram, 250gig hard drive, a 16x dvd writer etc. and by choosing the right options i could have bought it for around €325 including delivery and vat.
A considerably better deal than forking out €200 for a 2.8 Pentium 4 which is basically quite old technology now.

TempestSabre

Plus a new OS, licence and 1yr warranty.

MT

I realise that spending a bit more would get me a better deal in value for money terms but for all I need I just want to keep the all up costs as low as possible. I'll just be surfing the net with broadband and doing the odd bit of word processing so up-to-date technology that can run the latest games and imaging software just isn't a requirement. Having said all that I'd still like to get as much as I can and as good a deal as possible even for the meagre amount I'm spending. But then don't we all?!!

Duridian, do think a P4 2.8ghz computer isn't worth 200Euros? What should I be getting for 200?

Tempest, if you get a Windows XP OS thats installed on the hard drive but comes with no cds what do you do if something goes wrong? Is it/can you copy the software using a CD/RW when you get the computer to give you backups if something in the installed version goes haywire?

Also, is the license with Windows just the license sticker or is there paper documentation as well?

Oh, and back to my dumb question from earlier - if you just get the desktop will any keyboard and mouse be compatible with a Dell or HP?

duridian

MT wrote:

Duridian, do think a P4 2.8ghz computer isn't worth 200Euros? What should I be getting for 200?

Don't get me wrong, you wouldn't be getting fleeced, it seems around average judging by what systems make on Adverts. But I don't think you would be getting the best "processing power per-euro value" either.

Recent models from Dell and HP seem to come with USB keyboards & mice. Some of the most recent models have no PS/2 ports at all (the small roundy ports) as there is a new motherboard form factor being pushed mainly by Intel called BTX, and part of the BTX design aims is the elimination of legacy ports like PS/2, serial and parallel ports. Apparently Intel's looking to kill off IDE as well in favour of totally SATA based systems. Their ICH8 southbridge has no support for IDE.
So I guess to conclude you would be best off with a USB keyboard and mouse as there are USB ports in all PCs of the last decade but no PS/2 ports in some of the newer ones.

Oh and the licence is the legal agreement from Microsoft granting you permission to use Windows. The conditions will vary depending on what type of licence you have. (i.e., OEM, Retail or Volume Licencing) The sticker is a Certificate of Authenticity (COA) containing the unique serial number of your licence, this is also the CD-KEY entered during Windows install.

TempestSabre

You could pick up a PIII for 50-80 euro that will be enough for getting on the web and doing office tasks. Usually people with throw in a keyboard and mouse.

Every Dell I've got from the outlet comes with the OS on a CD. AFAIK the only time you don't get it is if you buy from the main site, and don't click the option to get the OS on a CD, because either you haven't read it properly or you're trying to save yourself 9 euro. Its a bit of myth spread by people with some hangups about Dells that you can't get the OS on a CD. Dell either have the licence sticker on the PC (so people don't lose it) or in the box with box with the CD and the licence is stuck on the cover of the booklet that comes with it. On a new Dell the OS is pre-installed.

Again every new Dell comes with a mouse and a keyboard, and the new ones seems to be USB. Even if you didn't get a new mouse and keyboard, you can adapters to use old mice and keyboard but I don't see the point when the new ones are so cheap anyway.You can get IDE to SATA adapters too, so I wouldn't be worried about that either.

IMO 200's an ok price. Its not a bargain or anything.

MT

So the certificate of authenticity - the sticker - is not the same as the license, have I got this right? Does it really matter if you only have the former?

Tempest, do you actually need the OS on cds as well or is this only a safeguard if something goes wrong with your installed version?

On the subject of the keyboard and mouse, what I was specifically wondering about was not so much the connection type - USB or PS/2 - but whether any particular brand is compatible with any desktop? Like a Dell working with a HP keyboard or mouse, for example?

TempestSabre

You've got it backwards. Keyboard and mouse is not brand specific just connection specific.

The sticker which has a hologram is the license. It can be on the PC as a sticker OR on a booklet.

Personally I like to have a separate CD. If the hard disk fails and you buy a new HD as a replacement, the copy of the OS on the original HD is gone. At least if you have the CD you can reinstall it on the new HD. Or if you decide to wipe the HD and rearrange the partitions you'll need a CD.