Hassling making me ill.

LegacyUser

Firstly, apologies for the really long post, but I think to help on this one you need some background info.

OK, starting at the start. About 5 months ago I broke up with my boyfriend of two years. I finished it because I just didn’t feel the same anymore and it seemed unfair to string it along any more.
It turned nasty when I started seeing another guy, my ex get it into his head that our break-up had something to do with this new guy, which is totally untrue.

While we were going out, we both got into very bad financial habits of relying on credit cards and personal loans, and were both living totally outside our means. We both ended up in debt, nothing too extreme, but quite a lot all the same.

Now when I took out my loans and maxxed out my cred cards, I spent it on both of us, but nothing too noticeable, nothing to show for it, meals, nights out, paying for hotels on holidays, treats and new equipment for our pets, household goods etc. When he took out his loans he always made a point of giving me large sums of money and letting everyone know what he gave me (which I then drivelled away on both of us anyway). Every now and then he would casually mention the money he gave me and say things like “ah sure as long as you stay with me I don’t want it back”.

When we split he said he wanted all the money he had given me back, I agreed to give it to him as soon as I could, just to save hassle, I really don’t care about the money, and I felt guilty as he was so hurt about the break up. Since the break up I have moved home and taken a loan from my parents and cleared off all my debt. My mother now controls my finances and will until early next year when the loan is paid off. She even has my bankcard, and I get an allowance of €70 per week from my wages. Seems drastic but I had to get the debt cleared.

Now, ages ago, I told my ex that I would give him the money as soon as I had control of my money again and would either save it in a short period of time or take a small loan out to pay him. He knew it would be early next year and he was fine with that at the time. It not that I’m not going to give it to him, I just literally don’t have it now.

He’s now hassling me for the money, and naming possessions of mine that he will take as payment. When I told him no, that he’d have to wait he threatened me with legal action. Does he have a case? Even though there was no written agreement, and I have already agreed to give him the money as soon as I can?

I’ve really tried to be as civil as I can with him but he’s really turned nasty lately. He refused move out of the house we lived in, even thought I moved in there first and he had only got his name on the lease a couple of weeks before the break up. So I moved home (worked out best for me in the end), but he was very cruel about it, turning our other housemates against me and making impossible for me to live in the house any more. Literally tortured me emotionally for the last few weeks of me living there. Breaking my stuff, hiding it, not allowing friends of mine into the house, and numerous other things until I gave in and moved home. He spread rumours about me, and told everyone the guy I’m seeing now is cheating on me. He has stressed me out so much that I got physically ill, have been told by the doctor that my illness is due to stress, I have a rash on my stomach which is so bad that it will leave me permanently scarred.

I really thought things had calmed down; I was starting to be really happy. New man is fantastic and so supportive, and he’s good for me. Even living on €70 (inc petrol, lunch, cigs and nights out) is not too bad. I had started to recover physically too.

Then he starts up again. He’s obviously not learned to budget and has continued with his bad spending habit, he’s running low for Christmas and rent and has decided to demand money immediately from me.

Gordon

Deary me. To be honest, I think that now he has mentioned legal action you should probably try and get legal help, this forum isn't your best course of action if he goes down that route.

Nevyn

Tell him that you will see him in the small claims court when ever he gets arround to filing and when ever there is a date set.
This could take a year, so call his bluff.
Consider changing your phone number and cut of contact with you if he keeps harassing you get in touch with the garda about it.

Sounds like his life is miserible and misery loves company and he is trying to drag you down with him.

Marksie

I think Gordon is right. It is best to go to a solicitor with the whole story, including the house, harrassment, whether rumours constitute slander, illness etc.
I think there are also citizens advice centres.

padser

Stessed&ill wrote:

Does he have a case?

Absolutely, from the facts you have described anyway.

Not absolutely cut and dry, but I'd rather be trying to win his case, then defend yours.

Thaedyla wrote:

Tell him that you will see him in the small claims court

The small claims court is a court for private individuals to take small claims against businesses and corporate entitities. I would ignore any advice relating to it, as your situation clearly wouldnt fall under its remit, you would looking at the district court appearance, in the unlikely event this goes to court.

CiaranC

padser wrote:

Absolutely, from the facts you have described anyway.

Not absolutely cut and dry, but I'd rather be trying to win his case, then defend yours.

What?

Unless he made it clear that the money was a loan, kept a record of it and agreed a repayment schedule then he has no case IMO.

Then again, IANAL.

The small claims court is a court for private individuals to take small claims against businesses and corporate entitities.

The small claims court hears cases between private individuals all the time.

OP, you should get in touch with a solicitor and ignore silly advice from people on forums.

padser

CiaranC wrote:

What?

Unless he made it clear that the money was a loan, kept a record of it and agreed a repayment schedule then he has no case IMO.

Then again, IANAL.

Considering

a) he gave the money and repeatadly said I dont want it back provided you stay with me - this would indicate that it was not an unconditional gift

b) when she agreed to pay him back she accepted that the moeny was due back to him

c) no written record is probably not a major issue

d) If I was arguing her case, I would make the argument that lack of a repayment schedule indicates it wasnt a loan.

As I said its not an open and shut case, but I would rather argue his case then hers, imo some compensation would be awarded to him.

CiaranC wrote:

The small claims court hears cases between private individuals all the time.

Not According to Oasis .gov.ie - an official information website for Irish Legal Matters

Oasis.ie (Irish Government Information Website) wrote:

The aim of the Small Claims Court procedure is to provide an inexpensive, fast and easy way for consumers to resolve disputes without the need to employ a solicitor. The Small Claims service is provided in your local District Court office.

To be eligible to use the procedure, you, the "consumer" must have bought goods or services (or the service) for private use from someone selling them in the course of business. The procedure is not available for use by one business person against another.

http://www.oasis.gov.ie/justice/small_claims_court/small_claims_court.html

CiaranC wrote:

OP, you should get in touch with a solicitor and ignore silly advice from people on forums.

A) Considering no legal action has been initiated against her, I dont see any resaon to retain the services of a solicitor at this time.

Best of luck retaining a solicitor with an allownance of €70 per week

gandalf

Providing you have gotten everything out of the house thats yours I would cut all contacts with him immediately. Probably change your number and delete all emails from him without even reading them.

Depending on the figure involved I doubt very much he will go the legal route (I'm assuming the figure is less than 5K here). Maybe contact a citizens advice bureau to see what your options are if he does, but a solictor is a bit ott until he does go down that route.

The best advice is to ignore this guy and if he continues to harass you get the Gardai involved.

dade

gandalf wrote:

Providing you have gotten everything out of the house thats yours I would cut all contacts with him immediately. Probably change your number and delete all emails from him without even reading them.
.

i'd probably hold on to any and all corrispondance from him, ya never know what he may say that might aid your case if it does come to legal action. especially oif you contact the police about his harrassment and then have emails/textmessages to prove it

Victor

Talk to your mum and talk about how you feel. Not about the money itself.

Stessed&ill wrote:

Now when I took out my loans and maxxed out my cred cards, I spent it on both of us, but nothing too noticeable, nothing to show for it, meals, nights out, paying for hotels on holidays, treats and new equipment for our pets, household goods etc. When he took out his loans he always made a point of giving me large sums of money and letting everyone know what he gave me (which I then drivelled away on both of us anyway). Every now and then he would casually mention the money he gave me and say things like “ah sure as long as you stay with me I don’t want it back”.

That sounds like he was trying to rent you.

I suspect a judge is unlikely to enforce anything said between a couple. He gave you money, I presume you did not seek it out.

Sit down with your mother (don´t do it by yourself, you´ll only end up crying) and write a list of things bought by you that he benefitted from. Credit card statements and receipts will help with this.

LegacyUser

'It's not that I won't give him the money, he can have it, I really don't care about it, i'd hand it over right now if I could get my hands on it.

It's €2500 by the way.

I just dont have it at the moment, literally, I have €0, and cannot get a loan. I really dont want to involve my parents in this any further, they have done enough and put themselves in debt already to help me out.

How can a Judge force you to pay something you dont have? Esp if you've already agreed to give it as soon as you can get it, would a judge even entertain a claim like this?

It's looking like mid March 07 before I can get the money, what if anything could he do before then?'

gandalf

dade wrote:

i'd probably hold on to any and all corrispondance from him, ya never know what he may say that might aid your case if it does come to legal action. especially oif you contact the police about his harrassment and then have emails/textmessages to prove it

Actually dade you are probably right if he is harrassing Stressed&Ill, then they would need evidence.

Stressed&Ill if you are going to be able to pay him in March then I wouldn't worry about anything. If he takes the legal route it would take longer than then to go to court I reckon.

For the moment try and ignore him and enjoy your Christmas with your family and friends.

Black Swan

Thaedydal wrote:

Tell him that you will see him in the small claims court when ever he gets arround to filing and when ever there is a date set.
This could take a year, so call his bluff.
Consider changing your phone number and cut of contact with you if he keeps harassing you get in touch with the garda about it.

Sounds like his life is miserible and misery loves company and he is trying to drag you down with him.

Agree with Thaedydal. Good advice.

trilo

First off, what a controlling asshole he must be.
As long as you were together you didn't have to pay him back.

Personally, i don't see how he would go the legal route, seeing as it would cost him in the long run.

I agree with some posters here saying cut all contact with him, but even keep record of contact you do have of him.

As for not speaking with your parents about it, i think you would be wise to speak with them, they are involved in helping you out so for and they want to help you out. What about asking their solicitor for advice on the situation?

Laslo

padser wrote:

no written record is probably not a major issue

What planet are you living on?

There's absolutely nothing your ex can do without proof of purchase of any goods that you currently have in your possession. That includes holidays, meals, etc. Just give him back any presents he might have given you (if he paid for them with his credit card or if he still has the receipts) and then tell him to fk off. He's just a pri*k taking you for a fool and he doesn't have a leg to stand on.

trilo

Laslo wrote:

He's just a pri*k taking you for a fool and he doesn't have a leg to stand on.

Well said.

LegacyUser

'Sounds like a mix of bullying and bluffing. There might also be a touch of vexation involved on account of the relationship being ended !

You may have agreed (understandably) too quickly to certain things to which he may not be as entitled as he assumes. Remember that if he is making claims he also has the burden of proof of his case !!

If this turns "rough" a good solicitor would be worth consulting for your protection.

If this turns "nasty" the gardai may need to be involved. As far as I know it is an offence to harass someone under section 10 of the NON-FATAL OFFENCES AGAINST THE PERSON ACT, 1997.

You might be able to negotiate a settlement with him but don't do it on your own. If you negotiate on your own he could deny everything subsequently. A lawyer could negotiate on your behalf and insist that he (ex) deals through the lawyer only.

Finally, if you do reach a negotiated settlement with this character get a signed discharge form from him agreeing that all matters between you are now fully and finally settled. This should enable you to solve the issue permanently without fear of giving him excuses to come back at you. It should be a very simple document to draft but a lawyer's attention to it would be preferable for certainty.

Early in the new year is always a good time for negotiating debt related problems. Keep him hanging until January and you might squeeze better settlement terms out of him then .'

Caliden

I would seek legal advice before you go giving him any amount of money at all.
Sounds like a real bollocks and I hope you and your new guy rub your relationship in his nose

Lorax

He sounds like a right bullying little prick.. Do u have any brothers/cousins/friends or anyone who could just tell him "kindly F*** OFF or you'll have us to deal with" ? sometimes it's the only way to deal with arseholes like this..

Laura Fitz06

does he have it in a contract if not he has no chance in getting it back. he has no proof id tell him to p off your lucky you got away from him

Rb

Lorax wrote:

He sounds like a right bullying little prick.. Do u have any brothers/cousins/friends or anyone who could just tell him "kindly F*** OFF or you'll have us to deal with" ? sometimes it's the only way to deal with arseholes like this..

Sorry but thats absolutely stupid. Get the older brothers/cousins after him?Are you serious?

OP: Get legal advice if you can. I'm pretty sure the law is on your side though, according to contract law domestic agreements (made by girlfriends/boyfriends/friends/relatives) are not normally presumed to contain the intention to create a legal relationship, rendering the "contract" between you and him over the money void and unenforcable.

I may be wrong, I've only a bit of law so maybe one of the other more legally informed Boards members may comment.

Laura Fitz06 wrote:

does he have it in a contract if not he has no chance in getting it back

It doesn't have to be a written contract to make it a perfectly legal one. However, from what I can tell, vital elements of a legal contract are missing from the OPs "contract" with her ex, so its void.

He probably thinks hes right though, and also probably still hurting/annoyed over the break-up so is looking for any way to get back at her for that hurt.

OP: Tell him to go to a solictor and you go find one yourself. I'm sure everythings in your favour, and you won't have (legally) to give him a cent though. Also tell him you're no longer dealing with it personally and not to contact you about it any further, to let his solictor do that.
If he doesn't leave you alone then, get the Gardaí involved.

LegacyUser

'he has extracted the value of his money in stress already. Tell him to F**K off and cut him out of your existance hes a bullying asshole and u are too nice. he tried to use this money as a means of control in your relationship and hes still using it. Break all contact with him.
he doesnt have a leg to stand on when it comes to claiming that money back.'

The Sweeper

OP, he can't do much to get the money back. I know this, because two of my ex partners owed me money when the respective relationships ended, and I never saw a penny out of either of them. The prospect of taking your ex to court to get money out of them is exhausting in itself. Then there's the burden of proof, which falls on you - you have to supply evidence that you did loan them money, evidence that they never repaid any of it, statements from friends and family to that effect to corroborate your story, it doesn't matter if there's a €500 DR on your account, for instance, and you say you gave it to your partner - if you've nothing in writing, and they didn't bank that cash, you have to provide alternative evidence that there was a clear understanding that it wasn't a gift.

It's different if you pay someone's way for a long time and have receipts to prove it - e.g. you did all the grocery shopping, paid all the rent etc and there's no evidence that you got any money back for it, but it still boils down to whether you want the exhaustion of taking it through court.

There's a big difference between actually walking into a solicitor's office, and just making harrassing phone calls and sending bitchy text messages to your ex partner.

You need to realign your view point on this.

Instead of:

"You owe me, you dumped me, I want the money now, you're so selfish"
and
"I'm so sorry I'm trying really hard",

try

"You owe me, you dumped me, I want the money now, you're so selfish"
and
"You'll have the money back at the earliest possible moment when I can afford to pay it back to you. In the meantime, I want you to stop contacting me. You'll hear from me in the first week of January with an update as to when you'll have it. I don't want to speak with you between now and then."

murrayeel

hmmm..A lot of good points here had been said. But you still have to consider seeking legal advise.(just in case;) )

pepper

Stessed&ill wrote:

Firstly, apologies for the really long post, but I think to help on this one you need some background info.

OK, starting at the start. About 5 months ago I broke up with my boyfriend of two years. I finished it because I just didn’t feel the same anymore and it seemed unfair to string it along any more.
It turned nasty when I started seeing another guy, my ex get it into his head that our break-up had something to do with this new guy, which is totally untrue.

While we were going out, we both got into very bad financial habits of relying on credit cards and personal loans, and were both living totally outside our means. We both ended up in debt, nothing too extreme, but quite a lot all the same.

Now when I took out my loans and maxxed out my cred cards, I spent it on both of us, but nothing too noticeable, nothing to show for it, meals, nights out, paying for hotels on holidays, treats and new equipment for our pets, household goods etc. When he took out his loans he always made a point of giving me large sums of money and letting everyone know what he gave me (which I then drivelled away on both of us anyway). Every now and then he would casually mention the money he gave me and say things like “ah sure as long as you stay with me I don’t want it back”.

When we split he said he wanted all the money he had given me back, I agreed to give it to him as soon as I could, just to save hassle, I really don’t care about the money, and I felt guilty as he was so hurt about the break up. Since the break up I have moved home and taken a loan from my parents and cleared off all my debt. My mother now controls my finances and will until early next year when the loan is paid off. She even has my bankcard, and I get an allowance of €70 per week from my wages. Seems drastic but I had to get the debt cleared.

Now, ages ago, I told my ex that I would give him the money as soon as I had control of my money again and would either save it in a short period of time or take a small loan out to pay him. He knew it would be early next year and he was fine with that at the time. It not that I’m not going to give it to him, I just literally don’t have it now.

He’s now hassling me for the money, and naming possessions of mine that he will take as payment. When I told him no, that he’d have to wait he threatened me with legal action. Does he have a case? Even though there was no written agreement, and I have already agreed to give him the money as soon as I can?

I’ve really tried to be as civil as I can with him but he’s really turned nasty lately. He refused move out of the house we lived in, even thought I moved in there first and he had only got his name on the lease a couple of weeks before the break up. So I moved home (worked out best for me in the end), but he was very cruel about it, turning our other housemates against me and making impossible for me to live in the house any more. Literally tortured me emotionally for the last few weeks of me living there. Breaking my stuff, hiding it, not allowing friends of mine into the house, and numerous other things until I gave in and moved home. He spread rumours about me, and told everyone the guy I’m seeing now is cheating on me. He has stressed me out so much that I got physically ill, have been told by the doctor that my illness is due to stress, I have a rash on my stomach which is so bad that it will leave me permanently scarred.

I really thought things had calmed down; I was starting to be really happy. New man is fantastic and so supportive, and he’s good for me. Even living on €70 (inc petrol, lunch, cigs and nights out) is not too bad. I had started to recover physically too.

Then he starts up again. He’s obviously not learned to budget and has continued with his bad spending habit, he’s running low for Christmas and rent and has decided to demand money immediately from me.

he may have a case-But he is harassing you- so theres ur case!

Get a note from the doc about the stress-Have fiancial notes regarding loans uve cleared and im sure ur mam will also support you as in telling them she controls your money!These friends of urs that he wouldnt allow into the house-Get statments from them-Mention the rumours he was telling ur bf.

he is crazy your so lucky you broke up with him

onemanband

Summary picture IMO:

1. This guy is a prick and deserves nothing from you.
2. You need to stop giving a damn about what he does or does not want.
3. He does not have a leg to stand on with this case. He will get nothing from any court.
4. You need to decide if you want to pay him or not.
5. If you decide not to pay him then tel him to fuxk off and never bother you again. If he does then report him to the guards time and time again whether it's phone calls or emails.
6. If you decide to stick with your commitment to pay him, tell him that you will have half the money in 6 months and the other half in a year. Tell him clearly that if this does not suit him he will get nothing (and mean it). Tell him if he bothers you just once durng this time then all bets are off (and mean it)
7. Use this money as a way to get this guy off your back. If he hassles you just once he gets nothing.

Finally you are better of without this prick. You have tried to be nice, do the right thing and just walk away. Now it's time to stand up for yourself. If you feel you cannot confront him on this then get someone you trust to do it on your behalf. If you cannot ask someone then pay a solicitor Euro 100 to wtite him a stiff letter outlining your position.