House share nightmare

LegacyUser

First of all, mods, I know this isn't the right forum to post this in but I really need to go anon for it. Wouldn't put it past anyone to be online stalking me and reading everything I say. If it can be moved without my identity being exposed, by all means please go ahead.

Basically, I'm in a bit of an awkward situation over a house I'm renting at the moment. I'm sharing the lease with one other. There are actually 3 of us in the house, but the third was only brought in just over a month ago and hasn't yet signed a contract as it hasn't been sent out by our (seemingly) useless landlord.

Anyway, the problem is it turns out the third person is a complete nightmare, and there is no way that we can carry on living together. I won't even go into the kind of things she's been doing, but it all came to a head this week when she sent me a text message calling me a liar.

I have been extremely reasonable with her even though I want her out RIGHT NOW, and after a completely fruitless discussion where she did nothing but sneer and snipe at me she has decided she is going to leave in January.

My problem now is that I really can't bear to have her in the house that long, I am utterly miserable and she is making my life a living hell. Now as I said she hasn't actually signed any contract, but I'm not sure whether or not she has been registered as a tenant yet, as we did pass on her PPS number.

My question is, is there any way I can legally request that she leaves before January, or is the fact that she hasn't signed any agreement not relevant? I'll just mention that I actually paid her first month's rent through my bank and she paid me in cash, and she also paid her deposit to me in cash, so there is only proof of her actually paying the rent herself for this month coming. The landlord hasn't issued us with any receipts. I should also mention that my other housemate has no desire to have her leave earlier, so it's not both of us against her.

I would never consider just throwing her out with nowhere to go, and I don't want to have to get nasty about it, but two months is really pushing it.

Is there absolutely anything I can do, or am I just stuck with her until she decides to leave? Thanks in advance for any replies.

Red Hand

Well, she hasn't signed a contract. That is the main thing, for a verbal agreement is usually quite flimsy (usually useless) in a court (so I'm told).

If you cannot stand living with her, why not have a meeting with your landlord, to see what the story is, and maybe then, have a meeting between all four of you?

Some people you just cannot get along with, no matter how hard you try. If push comes to shove, then perhaps Daft.ie is your best bet?

the_syco

Did you ask the other one? As you're putting on a brave face, so might they, when in fact you may both despise the other third?

LegacyUser

'Thanks Jeremiah.

Our landlord actually has nothing to do with any of this, we've never even spoke to him in person. An agent has been employed to deal with absolutely everything, the landlord doesn't want to know. And as you can imagine, the agent also doesn't want to know unless the query comes complete with a jingly coin noise. I want to avoid involving him until it's absolutely necessary, he's bloody useless and will only complicate matters with his running about like a headless chicken.

By suggesting daft do you mean find somewhere else to go? Not an option. There's not a chance in hell I'm leaving, why should I be forced out of my house because somebody who's just moved in is making life difficult? Aside from anything else, I'm bound by my contract to stay for a year, which I fully intend to do.'

LegacyUser

'

the_syco wrote:

Did you ask the other one? As you're putting on a brave face, so might they, when in fact you may both despise the other third?

Of course. He doesn't, he gets on well with both of us.'

Black Swan

Talk with the landlord first?

BlitzKrieg

How soon in January?

It might not be what you want to hear, but sometimes the best course is to minimize conflict as much as possible. Its almost december already, are you a student? or full time work? See if you can spend as much of december as possible with family or someething just so you dont have to face her, if she is leaving early january then its only just over a month away and you could be able to find something to fill that time up.


-I know one of my ex-housemates did this when him and the other housemate were at bad ends (and me to a smaller extent) he took two weeks off work and went travelling up north, by the time he returned he only had to deal with the situation for a week before the other housemate moved out.

LegacyUser

'

BlitzKrieg wrote:

How soon in January?

It might not be what you want to hear, but sometimes the best course is to minimize conflict as much as possible. Its almost december already, are you a student? or full time work? See if you can spend as much of december as possible with family or someething just so you dont have to face her, if she is leaving early january then its only just over a month away and you could be able to find something to fill that time up.


-I know one of my ex-housemates did this when him and the other housemate were at bad ends (and me to a smaller extent) he took two weeks off work and went travelling up north, by the time he returned he only had to deal with the situation for a week before the other housemate moved out.

The end of January unfortunately
I work full time so that's not an option, I need to be at home every day. I also live very far away from any family so I'm on my own when it comes to that too. And I can't get any time off work either. Bottom line is I have to be in the house as much as she does, which means I will be in contact with her quite a lot because if she thinks I'm going to go hungry just to spare her having to talk to me she has another thing coming (she spends a lot of time in the kitchen, no doubt rearranging all my food and crockery). I think I'll be living on minimal effort food for a while. Some good ideas though, thanks.'

LegacyUser

'

Blue_Lagoon wrote:

Talk with the landlord first?

As stated (though you wouldn't have seen that til this morning), also not an option. The landlord won't have any contact with us, I presume that's why they paid a chimp to do their bidding. I have requested some kind of contact address/number for them several times but it's been refused.'

Dan133269

What kind of a lease do you have on the house? if it's not too long, could you type out the provisions that you think relevant, or all of them if it's not too long, and I'm sure a few of us could offer suggestions.

You say your landlord doesn't want to know, it his job to know and help deal with these problems. Tell him that, a little delay in rent always gets their attention aswell. I'm not saying don't pay him, but just act like you're not bothered until you speak with the landlord.

Victor

At whose bidding is this third person there? Yours or the landlord?

If the landlord, tell the landlord (or rather the agent) to replace them as they are unsuitable.

If they are merely subletting from you and your friend (that is, only two of you are on the lease), simply give them the required notice (28 days?) and ask them to leave.

You should contact Threshold www.threshold.ie

LegacyUser

Hi Victor

I have already contacted threshold, thanks. They have given me a lot of generic but nevertheless useful information for which I am very grateful. But as I said, it is very general, and I posted this thread in the hope that as I was able to go into a bit more personal information somebody might be able to throw up some more opinions. I just received a reply from Threshold this afternoon so I am in the process of reading all the info contained in the links they provided.

As for the other bit you mentioned, that's the whole problem. They SHOULDN'T be sub-letting, that wasn't the deal we had with the landlord, they should be on the lease. However, since the lease hasn't been sent by the landlord for them to sign, they aren't. It is actually specified in our contract that sub-letting is forbidden, but since the reason nothing has been signed is the landlord's own fault, and the whole thing is "in progress", we're not actually breaching that condition.

So, she is neither on the lease, nor are we officially sub-letting to her. What I'm asking really is (and I have contacted threshold again about this as I was slightly confused over it), even though we are not supposedly to be sub-letting, does the fact that we technically are due to the fact that no contract has been signed entitle me to assume the role of landlord over this girl? Or if I did that would I be breaching my own contract by acting as though this was a sub-letting situation, thereby effectively biting myself in the ass?

(Just to note, they are there on my bidding, I brought them in with the approval of the landlord, but as mentioned there were supposed to be added to the lease as sub-letting is not allowed.)

yournamehere

It sucks nothing worse than a nightmare housemate. can't you just stay out of each others way? meet friends in the evening? go swimming/gym or for a walk? without going into details how are they a nightmare? abrasive personality? antisocial behaviour?

Carrigart Exile

Anyway, the problem is it turns out the third person is a complete nightmare, and there is no way that we can carry on living together. I won't even go into the kind of things she's been doing, but it all came to a head this week when she sent me a text message calling me a liar.

I have been extremely reasonable with her even though I want her out RIGHT NOW, and after a completely fruitless discussion where she did nothing but sneer and snipe at me she has decided she is going to leave in January.

Sounds to me like you are the problem.

LegacyUser

Carrigart Exile wrote:

Anyway, the problem is it turns out the third person is a complete nightmare, and there is no way that we can carry on living together. I won't even go into the kind of things she's been doing, but it all came to a head this week when she sent me a text message calling me a liar.

I have been extremely reasonable with her even though I want her out RIGHT NOW, and after a completely fruitless discussion where she did nothing but sneer and snipe at me she has decided she is going to leave in January.

Sounds to me like you are the problem.

And how exactly do you work that out?

LegacyUser

yournamehere wrote:

It sucks nothing worse than a nightmare housemate. can't you just stay out of each others way? meet friends in the evening? go swimming/gym or for a walk? without going into details how are they a nightmare? abrasive personality? antisocial behaviour?

Well that's what I'm going to have to do if I don't have any other option, but I'm sure you know yourself it's not really ideal. I don't want to have to avoid the house, I want to get home after work and relax without having to worry about somebody I don't trust being present in my house and having full access to all my belongings, etc.

It's not that she's causing damage or anything, she's just going out of her way to make sure that nobody else can enjoy any kind of quality of life if it's not done exactly the way she wants it. Things like not allowing people to be downstairs after about 9:30 at night because she has to sleep, switching off things that I'm using because she doesn't want them on (including the water in the morning), moving absolutely anything that I leave in any part of the house (putting clean washing I have left to dry on the radiators OUTSIDE), making a fuss about any guests in the house and then bringing people of her own, shouting and swearing and making ****ing ridiculous accusations when she doesn't get her way and just generally being rude, nasty and bloody sarcastic whenever she is spoken to. It's impossible to say anything to her, because the second you do she just comes up with some other accusation to scream and rant about and refuses to accept that there's even a vague chance that she might not be 150% in the right. She has accused me of being a liar, "racist" (she's foreign - won't say any more as I'm already giving away too much info if I'm being watched), stupid, "faking" helpfulness and nicety, and has gathered up a significant collection of complete and utter bollocks that I have supposedly said, which she keeps throwing back at me at random intervals whenever she needs some kind of defence.

Slutmonkey57b

So you and your friend brought this person into the house to sub-let (against the terms of the lease) and asked the landlord to put them on?

Then you complain that the landlord is useless and isn't getting his finger out to sign her up on the lease? Why should he? More to the point, why should he (or the agent) bother getting involved just because you don't like your new flatmate? It's your problem, you created it, deal with it. The landlord is perfectly within his rights to chuck you out for illegally sub-letting. Given the choice between that and listening to you whinge, I'd bet he'd find it easier to get an entirely new batch of tenants in rather than spend a lot of effort getting rid of the tenant you brought in, no?

smcelhinney

Slutmonkey, Im assuming that they are not illegally subletting considering that the 3rd person has to sign a lease, and the landlord/agent IS aware of their presence in the house.

Miserable: not an ideal situation by any means. I've rented for nearly 11 years now (yes, I know, get a mortgage.. pffft..) and have encountered all sorts. From a completely legal perspective, at the moment, you are legally entitled to do anything with this person, given that they are not contractually bound to the house or its content. However, IANAL, so if you know anyone in a legal capacity who can verify this, then by all means do.

From a not so legal perspective, it says a lot about the character and personality of a person, foreign or not, who insists on remaining in a house where she/he is clearly not welcome. I wont dance around the fact that cultural differences always prevail when you live with foreigners. Me personally, I've lived with between 10-15 foreigners in my time, of all nationalities, so am used to the intricacies of their make-up and culture. Im therefore entitled to make this statement.

For the people about to call me a racist, p!$$ off, Im well travelled (about 4 years abroad), speak 5 languages, and am studying culture and linguistics by night, so clan-hunt elsewhere.

Fact of the matter, this person is not welcome. They should have the presence of mind to know this, and irrespective of their personal situation should endeavour to leave the premises as soon as is humanly possible.

Have you made arrangements for another tenant for end Jan? Are you relying on the income from this tenant to pay rent?

Archeron

Miserable wrote:

won't say any more as I'm already giving away too much info if I'm being watched),

If you genuinely think this person is unstable enough to be watching your online activity, then I would seriosuly advise doing anything that could cause the situation to blow up in your face such as going behind their back to get them out, or having a heated argument with them. You do give the impression that you are deeply concerned by this person, so I think the first and most important concern you should have is your own personal safety. If you must swallow your pride for a couple of months in order to get a peaceful resolve to this, then so be it. It beats turning this issue into some sort of creepy mentally unstable episode that could haunt you for years.

I did see something similar to this happen to a friend of mine and it went totally horribly wrong when she didnt handle it as tactfully as she could have, and I would hate to see that happen to someone else. Not that I'm saying you aint tactful, but I cant think of another way of phrasing what I mean. Whatever you do, just be careful.

moto2006

Your housemate sounds crazy, poor you OP, its terrible living with someone you really don't like. I would repeat what has already been said, if she is mad enough to be stalking you online then it might be better to avoid a confrontation although I think you are definitely in the right! Its sometimes easy to just let things go - and let her off, avoid her as much as possible until the end of Jan and try to think of February when it (hopefully) will be all over and you'll be able to say My God, she was mental.

Victor

Carrigart Exile, I realise you are new, but please learn to use quotes. It can lead to a confusing thread otherwise.

LegacyUser

'

Slutmonkey57b wrote:

So you and your friend brought this person into the house to sub-let (against the terms of the lease) and asked the landlord to put them on?

Then you complain that the landlord is useless and isn't getting his finger out to sign her up on the lease? Why should he? More to the point, why should he (or the agent) bother getting involved just because you don't like your new flatmate? It's your problem, you created it, deal with it. The landlord is perfectly within his rights to chuck you out for illegally sub-letting. Given the choice between that and listening to you whinge, I'd bet he'd find it easier to get an entirely new batch of tenants in rather than spend a lot of effort getting rid of the tenant you brought in, no?

Please actually read the thread before commenting, because it is quite clear that you haven't done so.

We brought the third person into the house with the full permission and prior approval (through her references) of the landlord, with whom we made an agreement before even signing any contract that if we were to bring in a third person he would be happy to add them to the lease. It's just that he hasn't got round to it yet.

As for the bit about "dealing with it myself", what does it look like I'm doing?
Where exactly in this thread did I mention that I wanted to get the landlord involved. Not only did I not mention it, I also specified that I would rather not so as to avoid any extra hassle! Again, in future you should read before replying.'

LegacyUser

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Archeron wrote:

If you genuinely think this person is unstable enough to be watching your online activity, then I would seriosuly advise doing anything that could cause the situation to blow up in your face such as going behind their back to get them out, or having a heated argument with them. You do give the impression that you are deeply concerned by this person, so I think the first and most important concern you should have is your own personal safety. If you must swallow your pride for a couple of months in order to get a peaceful resolve to this, then so be it. It beats turning this issue into some sort of creepy mentally unstable episode that could haunt you for years.

I did see something similar to this happen to a friend of mine and it went totally horribly wrong when she didnt handle it as tactfully as she could have, and I would hate to see that happen to someone else. Not that I'm saying you aint tactful, but I cant think of another way of phrasing what I mean. Whatever you do, just be careful.

Thanks Archeron, I know exactly what you mean about the tact thing.

I'm really not sure whether she'd go to such extreme lengths as be reading around in case I've said anything about it online, but I really don't want to take chances. She's asked to use my computer a couple of times to "email friends", which I've allowed just to extend a hand of friendship, even though I don't like others using my computer. When I'm actually in the room she'll sit and stare blankly at something she's obviously not reading and keep looking over at me nervously, then as soon as I turn my back or step outside the door I'll suddenly hear furious clicking around at windows that I already have open, then she'll be on edge again the second I come back in. Maybe she's just weird about people possibly catching a glance at her inbox or something, but what can really be so secret that she wants me to leave the room so badly? I've also caught her flicking through things that are on my desk, such as my passport, bills, bank statements, etc. Would you trust this person?

Unfortunately it's not my pride that's at stake, it's my fecking sanity
I gave up my pride several weeks ago when I stopped trying to defend myself against her accusations after seeing the kind of quite frankly manic fuss she'd make.

I think your advice may be the best for now. Maybe I should just lie low for a while, lock up any possesions I can, and just hope that this won't get any worse if I stay quiet and allow her to have her way.'

onemanband

smcelhinney wrote:

Slutmonkey, Im assuming that they are not illegally subletting considering that the 3rd person has to sign a lease, and the landlord/agent IS aware of their presence in the house.

Miserable: not an ideal situation by any means. I've rented for nearly 11 years now (yes, I know, get a mortgage.. pffft..) and have encountered all sorts. From a completely legal perspective, at the moment, you are legally entitled to do anything with this person, given that they are not contractually bound to the house or its content. However, IANAL, so if you know anyone in a legal capacity who can verify this, then by all means do.

From a not so legal perspective, it says a lot about the character and personality of a person, foreign or not, who insists on remaining in a house where she/he is clearly not welcome. I wont dance around the fact that cultural differences always prevail when you live with foreigners. Me personally, I've lived with between 10-15 foreigners in my time, of all nationalities, so am used to the intricacies of their make-up and culture. Im therefore entitled to make this statement.

For the people about to call me a racist, p!$$ off, Im well travelled (about 4 years abroad), speak 5 languages, and am studying culture and linguistics by night, so clan-hunt elsewhere.

Fact of the matter, this person is not welcome. They should have the presence of mind to know this, and irrespective of their personal situation should endeavour to leave the premises as soon as is humanly possible.

Wow you go girl!!!

Back on topic. A verbal agreement from this girl to leave in Jan is not worth anything. She can change her mind in Jan and you could be no further on. The longer she stays the more rights she will have to remain. You need to get the landlord involved. Apologise for picking a lemon of a tenant but ask him/her to make it clear to the tenant that she must leave asap. Then document this in writing. It would be also helpful if you wrote a letter to the landlord co-signed by both existing tenants documenting issues with the new tenant and the reason you would like her to leave.


Have you made arrangements for another tenant for end Jan? Are you relying on the income from this tenant to pay rent?

Victor

onemanband, thank you for posting, but please use quotes correctly.