Meditation and Drugs; Spun off from the Meditation Sticky

MeditationMom

by irishtraveller1 - I have thought about the close link to buddhism and travelling

, yes, irishtraveller1, traveling from here to here. A long, instant journey!
Even the mind doesn't exist. Nothing inside it or outside of it. But - here we are, writing to each other on Boards - such a mystery! Leaves us in awe.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

are you on acid?

Goodshape

Mordeth wrote:

are you on acid?

I've always thought of acid / mushrooms a sort of short-cut or day trip (no pun intended) into the world of mystics and that which can be reached through meditation. I've not yet decided whether that's a 'big-up' for acid and mushrooms, or a tale-tale sign that there's really not much to mysticisim after all.

Although, even if the second option be true (that there's not much to it), that doesn't mean we shouldn't enjoy what mediation, mysticism or mushrooms have to offer.

But that's all totally off topic.

empirix

sjones wrote:

Superb post. Expecting something to happen during meditation will definitely slow down your 'progress' with meditation. Once you can get over this, you will find that meditation is alot easier.

The hardest thing for me was to get over this. Once I did my progress with meditation really took off. My wording might be a bit off... but what I'm trying to say is meditation was alot easier once I got over expecting something to happen. It's hard, but with practice it will happen.

Yeah except SJones problem was he kept thinking what was going to come in at the 3:15 @ newmarket

scojones

empirix wrote:

Yeah except SJones problem was he kept thinking what was going to come in at the 3:15 @ newmarket

Haha. Brilliant.

What's scary is you are kind of right (not when it comes to meditation though) but at weekends I find I wake up early, at around 8am just because I am excited about the days racing.

Sorry to go off topic.

Asiaprod

sjones wrote:

Sorry to go off topic.

Not aimed at you only, but yes, I would like to put this sticky back on track as a resource for meditation. The idea of using stimulants as an aid to meditation is an interesting subject. There are many examples of this. If anyone is interested in this subject, please start a new thread. The same applies to Buddhism and traveling. Thanks.

MeditationMom

by Mordeth- are you on acid?

Just to clear this up, especially for newcomers to meditation - no, I am not. Never have been, never will be.

Sometimes experiences during meditation can be very, very similar to drug trips. They can be little, irrelevant gifts along the way, not the goal (as in a real drug trip), and just point at the illusion of our so called reality. But they have never managed to take one beyond illusion alltogether. Any drug induced reality is still an illusion.

Meditation is nothing more than mastering our own brain, or brain chemistry, and body.

Therefore, starting to meditate should be expected to be as difficult as, for example, deciding to take up sword fighting or golf. It would be a huge, uncomfortable struggle before it turns into something you like, then something you love, then something you can't do without, then something you define yourself by, then something you would maybe teach, then something that makes you look superhuman or Divine, then something you realize you never had to "do" to begin with to be happy and free. As I said, a long journey from here to here, be it meditation, sword fighting or golf.

The goal in meditation is freedom, liberation, infinite love, enlightenment etc. It is the unconscious goal in all of our other pursuits as well. Even though this freedom is available right now, right here, our minds for some reason resist this notion, preferring to go through great efforts. It's what makes the world go around and we find it more entertaining and fun - until it isn't, and we are attracted to meditation, without knowing why.

So when we find ourselves struggling with meditation, it is normal and only practice will "make perfect". All along, though, there are great benefits. Just like - even if one were still a klutz at sword fighting, one would end up healthier and more muscular nonetheless. The same with meditation. It is just as important to notice how meditation is slowly but surely making us into more patient, kind, wise and centered people, as it is to discover better and better ways to meditate, or even discover enlightenment. Ultimately, it is the "side effects" of meditation that are the prerequisites for final liberation.

As far as helpful hints - I am happy to report that I have just been asked to develop a meditation program to be part of self esteem workshops that are going to be given to children in California schools. One of the "tricks" I have incorporated into the workshops is "five breaths, anytime, anywhere, whenever you think of it". Great thing to do during class

Asiaprod

This is an interesting topic and one worthy of debate. On the one side, there are supporters for the mind-enhancing powers of drugs as a means of achieving awareness, on the other, the more traditional opponents who deem that drugs go against the Law. I would ask that this thread stay very much on topic and not stray to actively recommending the use of various drugs. All drugs have the potential to be dangerous.

I am with MeditationMom on this one "Any drug induced reality is still an illusion."

Goodshape

Cheers for the split Asiaprod!

MeditationMom, great post with some great points. Definitely something I'd like to discuss.

MeditationMom wrote:

Sometimes experiences during meditation can be very, very similar to drug trips. They can be little, irrelevant gifts along the way, not the goal (as in a real drug trip), and just point at the illusion of our so called reality. But they have never managed to take one beyond illusion alltogether. Any drug induced reality is still an illusion.

Are you saying that the little, irrelevant gifts experienced in a drug trip have similarities to some aspects of meditation, but that meditation also offers a deeper insight?

You said you never have and never will take acid (I'll assume that rules out other hallucinogens?), but would you be at all willing to entertain the notion that great insights, clarity, freedom, liberation, infinite love, enlightenment, all these things can also be experienced with the help of certain chemical substances?

For the sake of the discussion - I'm a fairly 'normal' person, have a job, have a life, interested in a lot of things, find it a major struggle to meditate tbh; I also enjoy to smoke a joint on occasion and have had a few acid and mushroom trips in my time. (all this took place in Amsterdam, maybe). I've always made a point to research any drug I'm interested in trying -- wouldn't be the type to down a random pill from a mate. I like to know what I'm taking.

And what I'm basically saying is that someone could spend maybe half a life time or more studying and practising meditation to obtain key insights, or they could obtain the same on a single good, clear, thought out trip (not a Friday night club session, obviously. I'm not talking about that type of drug use).

Now, I do acknowledge that simply having the experience isn't much without the understanding you can get from years of practise and study, but the experience is the same. It can be dangerous, without someone to guide you or at least an awareness of what you're doing, but they can be helpful if treated respectfully, and they can if nothing else demonstrate, quite easily, that there is something more important that's worth having a think about.


There's a very good 1980's BBC documentary on Google Video which asks a lot of key figures about the spiritual aspects of an acid trip, I'll try and find it tomorrow and post up a link. Getting late now , time for bed.

18AD

Both these things have interested me at some stage and I have used each one in my short years of exploration. Drugs used include: Alcohol, Marijuana, Salvia, Mushrooms and Acid. Types of meditation undergone are very varied and I may not remember them all, but they break down into basically: Contemplation and Concentration. Many have been used interchangable and simultaneously.

At this time in my life I'm of the impression that none of these are reletively more useful in the grand scheme of things, however certain things may be used for specific purposes as they are all different and all have something different to offer. I like to view them all as teachers.

The idea that they teach is not limited to meditation and drug use, but spreads into other areas and basically comes down to experience. Everything you experience has something to offer you in ways of understanding. So drugs do have things to offer as equally as meditation or walking the dog do.

The big mistake I think many people make these days is that drugs are an easy way into a culture that draws a lot from alternative belief systems, yet these other systems are not defined by drug use. Sometimes the drug use is then confused with having legitimate knowledge of a whole other system. Then the other side of the spectrum is some people are completely oblivious to drug culture and I think these people have gained very little.

Of course all this is based on my limited experience, and my opinions may be completely different tomorrow, as my ego is seriously fluctuating at the moment. Excuse my lack of arguing skills and possible coherence, but this is an effort to change that. Criticism is welcome.

Piece.

Asiaprod

18AD wrote:

Of course all this is based on my limited experience, and my opinions may be completely different tomorrow, as my ego is seriously fluctuating at the moment. Excuse my lack of arguing skills and possible coherence, but this is an effort to change that. Criticism is welcome.

Nice post, no criticism. Many points I will take up on in it. By the way, your limited experience would indicate to me, that your ego seriously fluctuating at the moment, is a good thing. Fluctuation = movement;)

At this time in my life I'm of the impression that none of these are reletively more useful in the grand scheme of things, however certain things may be used for specific purposes as they are all different and all have something different to offer. I like to view them all as teachers.

I believe there is a lot of truth in your statement, it would encourage one to pick teachers wisely. Buddhism is very big on being wise, that is, making wise choices. That's one of the core reasons that I practice. Doesn't always work, but I am getting better at it:D

18AD

Asiaprod wrote:

Nice post, no criticism. Many points I will take up on in it. By the way, your limited experience would indicate to me, that your ego seriously fluctuating at the moment, is a good thing. Fluctuation = movement;)

I hope so, as it's a self-propagated fluctuation, with carefully chosen direction.

Asiaprod wrote:

I believe there is a lot of truth in your statement, it would encourage one to pick teachers wisely. Buddhism is very big on being wise, that is, making wise choices. That's one of the core reasons that I practice. Doesn't always work, but I am getting better at it:D

As is it mine. Although I have a mild preference for Zen and Taoism(in the realm of eastern beliefs), I believe the results are essentially the same.

Thanks for reply
AD.