Car searched by garda was it allowed?

Beekay

On Sunday i was in my friends car and he was driving down Griffith avenue, and just as we were going past the garda station on our left, we were pulled in by an undercover Ford Mondeo.

They asked us to get out of the car, which we did, then they began to search it.Now im not sure if my friend gave them permission but if he didn't is it legal for them to search his car for what i assume was drugs?

Now the detectives were actually alright, seeing as the car reeked of stale beer from our other mates on the back seat the night before! And were very courteous and made a few jokes with us etc.

The reason they said they pulled us over was cause my mate had his hood up! it was over his ears cause the heater is broken in his car and he was freezin!
Wouldn't help either that he drives a slightly modified Mitsubishi Mirage with tinted windows!

Stephen

If they claim to have reason to believe you've got drugs, they can search you/the car.

Savman

Of course they can search it, you could be anybody and be transporting anything in that car. Imagine if they had to go get a warrant to search every vehicle they stop. Madness - just think about it for a minute....

Wishbone Ash

Beekay wrote:

an undercover Ford Mondeo

Undercover or unmarked - there is a huge difference.

Guy:Incognito

Wishbone Ash wrote:

Undercover or unmarked - there is a huge difference.

Undercover - it was desguised as a dog.

dahamsta

Savman wrote:

Of course they can search it, you could be anybody and be transporting anything in that car. Imagine if they had to go get a warrant to search every vehicle they stop. Madness - just think about it for a minute....

I'm guessing you're trying to make an opinion look like fact (a trait I detest, particularly when applied to legal issues), and I'm also guessing you're wrong.

In most countries, including Britain on whose laws ours are based, you need one of three things to perform a search of pretty much anything. (Terrorism laws have changed the landscape a bit, but we didn't create a whole lot of them to the best of my knowledge.) They are:

a) consent;
b) probably cause; or
c) a search warrant.

In the case of the first, they would have needed to explicitly ask permission. In the case of the second, they would likely have needed to state what the probably cause is ("I have reason to believe that..."). In the case of the third, they would have needed to present the warrant. I'm guessing what happened here is that the Garda mumbled something like "ok if I take a look?" (which is effectively asking for consent), and the driver mumbled something like "ok" (which is effectively giving consent).

Since most people don't challenge in these situations, police officers don't go the full monty; but they usually tend to cover themselves with something. If they don't make any effort at all and go ahead anyway, the response should be to state clearly and concisely that consent hasn't been sought or given, therefore you believe the search isn't legal.

All IMHO, because IANAL.

adam

dermot_sheehan

dahamsta wrote:

I'm guessing you're trying to make an opinion look like fact (a trait I detest, particularly when applied to legal issues), and I'm also guessing you're wrong.

In most countries, including Britain on whose laws ours are based, you need one of three things to perform a search of pretty much anything. (Terrorism laws have changed the landscape a bit, but we didn't create a whole lot of them to the best of my knowledge.) They are:

a) consent;
b) probably cause; or
c) a search warrant.

In the case of the first, they would have needed to explicitly ask permission. In the case of the second, they would likely have needed to state what the probably cause is ("I have reason to believe that..."). In the case of the third, they would have needed to present the warrant. I'm guessing what happened here is that the Garda mumbled something like "ok if I take a look?" (which is effectively asking for consent), and the driver mumbled something like "ok" (which is effectively giving consent).

Since most people don't challenge in these situations, police officers don't go the full monty; but they usually tend to cover themselves with something. If they don't make any effort at all and go ahead anyway, the response should be to state clearly and concisely that consent hasn't been sought or given, therefore you believe the search isn't legal.

All IMHO, because IANAL.

adam

Complete BS

This ain't the old US of A,

section 23 Misues of Drugs Act means they can search any vehicle
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/ZZA12Y1977S23.html

Guy:Incognito

Is the gards opinion that you are in possesion of drugs not a factor for probable cause?


Either way is it that big a deal? I was stopped in town years ago by a gard and searched and last year was stopped in the car and searched (after I stupidly took a right turn when I saw there was a checkpoint up ahead as I had no tax). Neither time bothered me at all and if searches like this end up getting one or two drug dealers caught or a few people with illegal guns then I'm all for it.

Anan1

gabhain7 wrote:

Complete BS

This ain't the old US of A,

section 23 Misues of Drugs Act means they can search any vehicle
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/ZZA12Y1977S23.html

Your quote doesn't contradict what dahamsta said. On the contrary, it appears to support it.

Savman

dahamsta wrote:

b) probably cause

"Probable cause"

So, dahamsta, can Gardai legally search a vehicle, as the OP asked?
Simple question and simple answer, Yes.

Thanks to gabhain7 for posting the link, but I didn't think it was needed and I assumed such things were common knowledge. Obviously not :rolleyes:

dahamsta wrote:

I'm also guessing you're wrong.

You're guessing I'm wrong?! Fair enough so! If you ever get pulled in by the cops I'm sure you won't hesitate in informing them they have no legal basis to search your vehicle. While they're on the ground in hysterical laughter, you could probably make your getaway.

dermot_sheehan

Probable Cause does not equal reasonable cause, probable cause is an american term taken from the 4th amendment to the U.S. constitution which states:

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

It has acquired a distinct legal meaning separate from the irish statute's requirement of reasonbale cause. In particular evidence seized in violation of the 4th amendment must be inadmissable in the u.s., while in Ireland since the constitution only protects the dwelling, it's admissable at the discretion of the trial judge.

Savman

Anan1 wrote:

Your quote doesn't contradict what dahamsta said. On the contrary, it appears to support it.

What's the difference? If by saying "we've reason to believe you're trafficking drugs" makes it legal for them to search your vehicle then in the real world and in simple terms they can search your vehicle.

That's all the OP wanted to know and is the only point I'm trying to make here :rolleyes:

Beekay

Stekelly wrote:

Undercover - it was desguised as a dog.

.....meant to say unmarked!

dahamsta

I never said Gardaí have no right to search a vehicle, as any intelligent person that can read will know. I said that I believe one of three factors must be present, all of which require a verbal or physical transaction (warning, notification, warrant). I used the term "probable cause" to represent a concept, as I wasn't aware of the usage in Ireland. And well done for correcting my spelling, you're a master debater. I think that's how it's spelt...

adam

Kersh

How can they pull a car at a distance and then search it for drugs.... do they have a 6th sense...???????

If they pulled him cos its a done up Mirage, then surely its discrimination... no different than pulling over a black guy cos hes black.

carryboy

Kersh wrote:

How can they pull a car at a distance and then search it for drugs.... do they have a 6th sense...???????

If they pulled him cos its a done up Mirage, then surely its discrimination... no different than pulling over a black guy cos hes black.

Gardas have the right to search if they suspect on something strange. But searching doesn't mean you're automatically guilty. That's their task and that's what they're paid for.

Gregor Samsa

Savman wrote:

Of course they can search it, you could be anybody and be transporting anything in that car. Imagine if they had to go get a warrant to search every vehicle they stop. Madness - just think about it for a minute....

While legal means exist for Gardai to search any vehicle (or individual) without a warrant, your argument makes no sense.

Any house could contain anything - they still need a warrant to search it.
Any computer could contain anything - they still need a warrant to search it.

And rightly so.

Stekelly wrote:

Either way is it that big a deal? I was stopped in town years ago by a gard and searched and last year was stopped in the car and searched (...) Neither time bothered me at all and if searches like this end up getting one or two drug dealers caught or a few people with illegal guns then I'm all for it.

If you're cool with being searched for no good reason, then that's your prerogative. Personally I'd be more comfortable with some checks and balances in place to avoid misuse of such powers.

Anan1

Kersh wrote:

How can they pull a car at a distance and then search it for drugs.... do they have a 6th sense...???????

If they pulled him cos its a done up Mirage, then surely its discrimination... no different than pulling over a black guy cos hes black.

Only if the Mirage was born 'done-up'.;)

Savman

dahamsta wrote:

And well done for correcting my spelling, you're a master debater

Since when is this a debate? A fella came on looking for a simple answer.:rolleyes:

phutyle wrote:

While legal means exist for Gardai to search any vehicle (or individual) without a warrant, your argument makes no sense.

Since when is this an argument? A fella came on looking for a simple answer.:rolleyes:

Maybe you 2 can get together and debate to your heart's content, some of us here just want to offer hands-on advice to other boardsies without getting into the politics of it.

If you really must know, I'm of the opinion that it's in the best interests of everyone that they can stop and search random vehicles. Whatever about warrants for searching your home, that cannot be compared because you can't actually move a house, it's always in a fixed location so they know where to find it. A car can easily be used for robberies, kidnappings, drugs, guns, god knows what.

The needs of the many....

ballooba

Saw a Mirage pulled up on Avoca Avenue today.

Gardai had the whole thing pulled apart.

The owner looked like he didn't really mind.

Fratton Fred

Driving a modified Mirage whilst wearing a hoody with the hood up.

Sorry, but imho, that indicates you are prepared to give up any civil liberties you have

Lorax

Theres no law against driving with a hood up ffs. sometimes my car is absolutely freezing and it takes a while for the engine to heat up so I might put up my hood for a while. They have no right to pull you in and search just because you drive a modified car and wear a hood. Would they have done the same to a well dressed man in a s-class mercedes? I dont think so. clear discrimination. If u didnt want your car searched just tell them you want to call your solicitor first. That would have shut them up fast. Poxy gards.

Stephen

If they suspect you have drugs they can search you and your car. A modified Mirage with hoodies inside would be reason enough for suspicion in my book


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JOPKE!!1

Gurgle

Lorax wrote:

They have no right to pull you in and search just because you drive a modified car and wear a hood.

Apparently, they have a right to pull you in even if you're missing both the hood and the car.

Lorax wrote:

Would they have done the same to a well dressed man in a s-class mercedes?

Presumably they would if reports had been made of a well dressed man selling drugs out of his s-class merc.

Its often referred to as 'investigating'. Its something the Gardai do sometimes.

ballooba

Lorax wrote:

Would they have done the same to a well dressed man in a s-class mercedes?

Or a person wearing a motorcycle helmet, ski mask, ice hockey mask, ronald reagan mask?