What's it all about? (again...)

elven

I’m feeling all rambly today. It may be down to reading some philosophical photography blog, such as:

Photostream,

Musings on Photography,

a particular post on The Landscapist, and

Art and Perception

Anyway, those links are just in case anyone else is feeling that sort of philosophical way about photography, where you like to sit back and think about the creative inclinations, the emotional response (I’m allowed to say that, I’m a girl) and also the frustrations that can get in the way of the process. Continue reading if you’re in that frame of mind and don’t mind a bit of self indulgent ‘what’s it all about’ ramblyness.

Basically there are two or three points of interest that have been on my mind recently – the first being the ‘prettiness’ issue, or I suppose you could even sum it up to being your general reason for taking pictures – what are you aiming for, at the end of the day? Trying to answer my own question in a broad sense I just thought that I wanted something I’d like to hang on my wall. But then I realised that my interior design sensibilities clash somehwat with my photographic tendencies, so that one has to go out the window. It does, however, answer for those simplistic, organic, graphic, contrasty shots that sneak onto my flickr stream. But beyond that, what are we looking for? I read something recently that pointed out the amateur trying to replicate the pictures on postcards because they represent a level of competence, and if someone says to them ‘that looks like a postcard’ they take it as a compliment because that means they are competent. I think the flickr culture also rewards similar aesthetic qualities, the pictures in explore are mostly highly saturated, contrasty and simplistic or in other words can grab attention and be appreciated in the web viewer format – as I heard someone else say, the photographic equivalent to a one night stand, compared to a marriage… no effort required and very little lasting impression…

But anyway... Is that a first step in a photographic lifetime? I say first because I’d like to think there’s something beyond it – and that something is what I’m looking for now. Unfortunately I seem to be shackled to the postcard style, and if I post an image that doesn’t have some kind of instant impact I find it difficult to live with. How do I know if I make something better – how do I know the difference between a picture that takes longer to appreciate because there’s more to it than you can see with a cursory inspection, or one that I’m just trying too hard with?

And on the subject of trying too hard, I was thinking about my previous attempts to plan pictures. Sometimes I lie awake at night (yes, I know, sad sad sad), trying to decide how to make the best of whatever light we get on a given weekend, and deciding the best location and which way the sun will set/shadows will fall. When I think like this and actually go out to try and take those pictures, it gets me frustrated and annoyed. Then when I just wander round enjoying the scenery, and shooting ‘off the cuff’, I have a generally much better time and tend to come home with something on the memory card worth processing. Is that because I’m letting my instinct take over and as a result allowing myself to take the pictures that appeal naturally to me, or *should* I actually be trying harder to create something more profound?

And so, that leads on to the slightly disconcerting conclusion that sometimes it is actually the process that I enjoy, moreso than the final image itself. I think that’s why it’s easier to work on new pictures that I’ve just taken, than rework the ones that I look at with a slightly broader photoshop toolset and (I hope) greater ability and think ‘I really should go back and do _____ to that picture’. They don’t have such a strong link to the actual taking of the picture, the process of being out there with the camera, looking around, enjoying the surroundings and the inclination to capture a scene, because so much more time has passed since then and I’ve moved in a different direction usually. I’ve even found myself not as excited by the prospect of plugging the card into the PC than I was for the first 6 months of having the DSLR.

So, do we sometimes do for the sake of doing, rather than a means to an end? What's it all for, anyway?

Fajitas!

From the poll, I'll choose:

"I enjoy the process of actually shooting and processing even more than the final result"

And:

"I want a record of places I've been and people I know"

With a bit of

"I want to prove my artistic genius, be revered by other photographers and go to fancy artsy parties" thrown in there too"

I just like photography though. I know a lot of the theory to both asthetics and photography etc, but to be honest, I'm happier getting a good or 'pretty' photo than a technically correct one.

I think at the end of the day, it's all about enjoyment. Enjoying going out taking the shots, enjoying processing the shots, enjoying seeing the finished shots coming from the printer, enjoying seeing other people enjoying your shots, enjoying pocketing a few bob for doing something you enjoy...and even moreso, enjoying spending that few bob on more camera gear for you to enjoy.

(I'm allowed to spout all that pretentious bullsh*t, I'm an art student )

CONMIKE12

I agree mostly with what Al said.It's about enjoyment.I knever knew untill i did it that i'd like sitting by a lake at half four in the morning listening to the birds singing and waiting for the light to be right.And then when you get back home it's exciting seeing if you managed to capture what you saw.It's not that important,it's just photography.if you enjoy it then keep doing it.Please youreself and keep trying for the perfect shot.You may never get it but it's a lot of fun being out there trying.Thats just my humble opinion.:D

elven

I want a record of places I've been and people I know

Nowhere near as pretentious as I'm sure you could manage

Dammit, I just realised I forgot another option for the poll. I was going to stick in 'I want to communicate a message to the viewer' because some people seem to try and *say something* with their pictures.

At least you haven't told me to shut up, stop pondering, and go out and take some photos - it has been a familiar response to ths kind of question before...

Morlar

My photography gets me out to places I wouldn't have otherwise visited

Not trying to be a smartarse but all of the above options - each of them are why I do it but I voted for the fancy artsy parties one though as it was the funniest.

I didnt read through the links you posted yet but I will catch them later on. I'd say I dont 'do for the sake of doing'. There have been a few times when I have been there with the camera and just thought this subject/location doesnt interest me and took one or two and then put the camera away. Then again there are other times when I would go all mega-tourist snapping away like a strobe machine so it really depends on a lot of things.

I think that no matter what planning you put into something you will have to be ready to improvise and thats part of the fun of it.

In the case of studio shots my experience would be either you :

a) forget something like say a reflector or flash gun (havent managed to forge the camera yet - touch wood),

the model doesnt show up, my favourite is to find out the day before the shoot when you have booked the studio and booked time off work/cancelled previous plans or bought gear specifically for it etc

c) the model shows up several hours late and you are completely rushed,

d) you get completely f***ing lost (again) and turn up late (best combined with a & c, e & f, g)

e) the model shows up wearing something different to what was talked about/agreed/the reason for the shoot

f) the studio lighting setup has changed since the week before and a different amount of and different versions of lighting gear are on hand, (some works, some partly works and some are total paperweights). The studio backdrops are different to what you had planned for, the studio sets are not the same and so on.

g) Something that works before the shoot will stop working during it and start again afterwards.

h) you shoot for a few hours on a 4gb cf card and when you go to read it the next day windows says with a straight face 'This card is not formatted Would you like to format this card now ?'

I wont bore you with the list of stuff from freelance sports ones.

I think sometimes when you take the pressure off yourself (ie when you think you have the shot) you can be more relaxed and get better results than if your too pre-occuppied with the technical side of things.

I agree with you on the leaning toward shots that display some sort of technical ability - but at the end of the day its the ones that look most interesting/appealing that I prefer regardless of how difficult they were or look like they were to take. Some of the most tricky shots I have look like there was absolutely nothing to them - and others that look like they were difficult to achieve were just a matter of pushing the button.

I am in the same boat re older pics and looking at them now with a few more months photoshop experience but if I have already processed them I am usually not that interested in re-visiting them unless its for a specific reason.

I think all of what your describing sounds normal to me - its inevitable that after a few months/a year or so of using a dslr and being a bit more serious about it that people are going to have a more weathered approach and not get ecstatic over shots that arent that interesing but would have been v interesing in the earlier days (imo). I notice that when people who are brand new to photography post pictures - theres an element of marvel about it - like 'wow look at this wow !!!' (and its a boring picture of something like a crisp packet or whatever). That probably sounds arrogant but its not supposed to - I look at the earliest pics I took and honestly for some of them I have no idea what the hell I was thinking - some of them were never any good at all to begin with and its hard to understand what I thought stood out about them. I think for many it was just the location/ the people standing off camera, the weather that day or something along those lines. There are memories wrapped up in them even if the memorable events are not the subject of the picture. I think that is probably a sign that people are getting better and their tastes are getting more developed (pardon the pun) that they put more thought into it and are less likely to get exciteable than they would have been when starting out. As I see it if I ever got a video camera I would probably take little films of the most boring crap on the planet just to marvel at seeing it played back on a tv - whereas someone who has had one for a few years would be less excitable and put more thought into planning them out - same principle imo.

Valentia

I like to buy camera gear

For me photography is an extension of everything else I do. It's part of me. I take thousands of photos that will never see the Flickr light of day but which are a fairly detailed record of my family, friends and passers through. Their real value becomes apparent over time. Technically they are no great shakes.

That's the majority of my work. Then there is the other stuff. The landscapes, nature and whatever else sticks its head out the window. I have absolutely no interest in developing a style, as some people put it. That seems limiting to me. I'm fairly disorganised anyway and planning has never been a forte of mine. Instinct would be the word. I still have that rush when I stick the card in the reader and wait for the results to appear on the screen.

What amazes me most, still, is how sometimes a picture that initially appears to be average can take on a life of its own. DSLR's create a bland image straight from the camera. They need to be developed, worked on. This is often off putting for new users. I still suffer from that initial disappointment. But after a play with levels or curves I feel that rush as I realise that I am not as bad as I thought.

Being involved with so many things here in town means that it is really only when I am on holidays that the mind frees itself up enough to get stuck into photography. That's why most of the stuff you see on Flickr is from the holliers.

I do believe good equipment is important. I have got a few L lenses recently and the quality is way beyond what I imagined. This can be a great encouragement. That's not to say an expensive lens is needed for good photography. It is not.

Overall I don't have an awful lot of faith in my ability but, that being said, I realise I have some ability. I keep drawing analogies with drama. I have done a lot of acting and some directing. Again it's an instinctive thing but, for some reason, it works. Photography is the same vibe for me. Experiment and fail often. It's the successes that make it worthwhile.

Is that enough of a ramble? :rolleyes:

Oh and another thing. The shots I like most (of my own) are usually not the ones that other people like and visa versa.

paudie

I want to prove my artistic genius, be revered by other photographers and go to fancy artsy parties

Bugger didn't realise I could choose a few options I selling because I'm trying to make a go of being a professional for a while, but I would also ad all of the above including the buying new stuff one. I'm such a techy nerd

Ruu_Old

"I want a record of places I've been and people I know" is probably the big one for me. You can take out your album or look on the wall at the picture, remember that time and spend hours discussing it. I do like shooting and plenty of processing to show off the final result from time to time.

B0rG

Looked at your flickr. Looks like you mastered macro-kitties-sunsets phography. Naturally you feel bored and thinking where to go next...

Try this as a source of inspiration...
http://www.fotostil.de/categories.php?cat_id=17

I know it's on russian but most of the examples of staged shooting have full photograph of the whole set. And I'm sure there are similar resources in english.

Sometimes I think about my photography - where should it go but learning the techniques is making me busy. And there is work to pay for all of the equipment... And I don't use flickr as I thik that large amount of bad photography kills the taste.

CraggyIslander

I like to buy camera gear

"I want to create pictures that will look pretty on my wall" and usually their a record from places I normally wouldnt have visited.... thats my 3 votes in one

Almost put in a fourth one, but I'm not sure about the processing bit.... the whole PS lark is still very new and daunting to me, but I do love the process of actually shooting tho... even better if the picture comes out close to what I hoped to capture.

Pretty much all my pictures are for myself... most will never see the light of an online album... and of those that do.. mostly will be for sharing with family / friends. Only very few will actually end up on my wall (in rotation)... those where the capture / composition was spot on (on the aul slides, was about 3-4pics on a roll of 36... the rest came out more like snaps) So yeah most pictures are purely for own enjoyment and remembering the spot where it was taken / offcamera people, etc...... sentimental value really.

As for the processing, I used to work with positive film only most of the time, so any chance of processing before projecting it on the wall was very slim. Which is probably why I still look at the pictures I take as they are, not what potential they have with curves and levels...... but I'll get the hang of that someday.

Anywaty, just my 2c ramble

helios

I like to buy camera gear

I also enjoy the part about recording places I've been... Working in a technical job, it's very few times I get to use the creative part of my brain, so photography gives me that outlet that I wouldn't otherwise get. I also enjoy the challenge as others have mentioned about staying up for hours or bearing the elemens to get a good shot. It sucks while doing all the prep and shooting, but deffo worth it to see the nice shots. The pic I made of St. Paddy's Cathedral I had to do in pitch black, and since it was the the whole place was closed, so I had to put my hands through the fence, setup the tripod in the, etc... It looked like I was trying to break in, but the pics turned out brilliantly, and it was worth it to get that satisfaction.

rymus

I want a record of places I've been and people I know

It's mostly "My photography gets me out to places I wouldn't have otherwise visited". I like picking up the camera, heading out in the car and finding places I didn't know existed or even stopping at places I've often passed but never bothered with. That keeps me happy most days. Since I started to sell my prints not too long ago (and having experienced the simple joys of the sale), I've started taking alot of photos that'll sell. Indeed most of what I actually send to print these days is stuff I'll end up selling. I'll get the odd few done for myself or to stick on the wall at home but most of them end up being mounted and stuck in sleeves ready for sale. So yeah, there is also a bit of ""I want to create pictures that other people will buy to put on their walls" in there too...

I think I only do that because I actually like going out, interacting with the public (yes, even the morbidly stupid ones) and answering their many many many questions.

Definately alot of "I enjoy the process of actually shooting and processing even more than the final result". More the former though. I hate photoshop with a passion. Probably because I can't use it as well as I'd like to. I'd take 50 or 60 shots of one scene when I'm out just to get it right in camera rather than taking 1 and having to make major changes later in photoshop.

Like any gadget freak, I've got twinges of "I like to buy camera gear". I can't really not admit to that after recently shelling out on a Canon 70-200 f2.8. I love buying new gadgets and thankfully (at least when it comes to camera gear) actually get use out of them.

I think one that's not already in there but would be a huge part of what drives me is learning the art of photography. Maybe that's such a universal option that it really doesn't need to be in there. I think we'd all say that we're learning. I can do macro, I can do landscape but one thing I cannot do with any great amount of success anyway is portrait photography. I've had minor stints with producing decent portraits but it's not consistent. One thing I'm really eager to learn is studio photography. At the moment I think if I could walk into a studio setting, spend an hour or two with a model and come out with just one decent photo I'd die a happy man. But... it's all about learning I suppose and thankfully I've got plenty of time to work on it...

Great thread, keep up the philosophical ramblings

Dimy

I want a record of places I've been and people I know

I went for "my photography gets me out to places..." and "I enjoy the process of actually shooting and processing..."

When I started taking on photography on a more serious level nearly a year ago it was because I needed a new hobby, something that would motivate me to get outdoors more often as my previous hobby, sleeping, wasn't really suitable for that . I already had an interest in photography so the choice was easy and it never disappointed me. It did exactly that plus I made a bunch of new friends whom I normally wouldn't have met.
Of course I'm also proud when a picture is getting positive C&C from other photographers here on boards and other forums, but it's not my "drive".
Funny thing is that the more I got interested in photography my look at the world around me has completely changed, I always look around looking for something of interest and how I would frame the shot. You get to see a lot more detail of things you normally wouldn't even look at.

melekalikimaka

I want to create pictures that other people will buy to put on their walls

for my own wall mainly. my love for music seeps in alot with the photography. i love pictures of musicians full of energy that make you wish you could hear what they were playing at that moment, and i try to create that for myself to rememeber. through that other forms of photography have grown on me, i'm sure the other options will filter into my thinking soon tho... i can feel it in my waters

311

I want to create pictures that other people will buy to put on their walls

I'm a masochist and really hate photography ,I just can't help myself.:o

abetarrush

I like to buy camera gear

If you dont enjoy it, whats the point?

I like the challenge. Love havin a finished photo printed in my hands. I hope to become a top photographer, but not to over-analyse. Thats wha can happen when you're the best in your area of work.

If you like taking the photo, the subject matter, the processing and the finished product, and other people enjoy it too, then you've nothin much else to worry about