Alternative vision for Brewery development

mad man

From the Munster Express.

Alternative vision for Brewery development


By Michelle Clancy

Amidst fears of huge extra traffic volumes with attendant air and noise pollution, the loss of natural light, public open space and other amenities, Waterford Council of Trade Unions has joined in the protests against the proposed Brewery development in the city centre.

KRM Construction Partnership was refused planning permission earlier this year for its ‘Brewery’ development, to include a shopping centre, hotel with leisure and conference centre, sports bar with bowling centre, 29 apartments and parking facilities, on a site encompassed by Michael St., New St., Stephen St. and Alexander St.

"From the outset, the WCTU accepted that the area required development and that any jobs arising from its regeneration would be welcome”, a spokesperson has stated. "However, we are not for development at any cost.” Supporting the establishment of the Waterford Alliance for Sustainable Inner City Development, WCTU opposed the initial planning application by KRM and took part in the company’s public consultation process prior to the devising of revised proposals for the site.

WCTU has called on KRM to away from the idea of a generic shopping centre and instead focus on creating an historical and cultural quarter in the heart of the Medieval city Waterford, proposing the creation of pedestrian routes through the site, e.g. from Michael Street via O’Keefe’s to Kiely’s on New Street. "The main pedestrian route, which should create a courtyard effect throughout, would culminate in a plaza type public space at the Kiely’s yard entrance”, the spokesperson continued. "Street sculpture, kiosks, suitable planting etc would create a continental feel and enhance the shopping experience. The proposed space for Red Kettle near the old ‘managers house and office’ if supplemented by nearby bookshops, photo or art galleries would lend a sense of culture to the whole area.”

The WCTU has proposed a not for profit multi-cultural music centre with performance, rehearsal and recording facilities within the development, along with the return of community building to the


With iconic and sustainable state of the art buildings, this alternative development would attract people not just from the south east but from across Ireland and beyond, according to WCTU. "We believe our vision for the site and surrounding area will the goodwill and support of the local community as well as the wider population of the city. Any developer or retailer who wishes to invest here will require the co-operation and support of locals if the venture is to be successful”, the spokesperson concluded.


Back to top


If I'm not mistaken wansn't this site effectively non existent in the public mind until KRM developers bought/attained the site.

Are these people for real? They are asking KRM to effectively give the site away and if they don't in disguised language are saying they will organise a blockade to it.

Does anyone think they will get away with it?

merlante

It seems like we have entered a phase where nothing proposed will be good enough. This so called alliance for sustainable development seems to be setting itself up as a local Bord Planala: Any developer or retailer who wishes to invest here will require the co-operation and support of locals if the venture is to be successful", the spokesperson concluded. In other words their views are supposed to represent 'the locals', and it's them that business should listen to.

The vast majority of people in Waterford city, in my honest opinion, want a centre that can support shops like M&S, HMV, Waterstones, Dixons, and so on, that is reasonably spacious and attractive, and that doesn't cause the demolition or obfuscation of ancient architecture.

This, again in my opinion, is the middle ground. On one side you have the mythical development at all costs movement, who I presume is composed of a band of evil, cackling businessmen, who build a big dish to block out the sun if they were left to their own devices. On the other side you have McCann/WASCID, who want nothing built. What is annoying about all this is that McCann/WASCID claims to represent the middle ground, whereas they clearly do not.

As to whether they'll succeed or not. Surely no matter what happens it will come down to Bord Planala in the end. Although, it is possible they could get the council to block it I suppose. Time for people to stand up.

fricatus

These guys are absolute muppets. As mad man said, there wasn't a peep out of any of them for years until KRM bought the site, and now all of a sudden they're interested.

It's utterly childish. It's sort of like a three-year old who ignores his toy fire engine until his sister comes and tries to play with it. Then it's all he cares about.

This business of creating cultural spaces always amazes me. Well-meaning local authorities create them and then nobody really uses them much of the time. And then people complain about skangers using them to hang out, or skateboarders using them. Do we really need another WVW Plaza? The answer is no - until, that is, we have sufficient mass of people ("footfall") to make it worthwhile. What will create that footfall better than a good range of shops?

They go on about this business of "sustainability" without having a clue what it means. I ask you this: which is more sustainable, City Square or the Plaza? Well, where do people spend their Saturdays? Get my point?

mad man

Its hard to know how to respond to this kind of thing.Is it better to ignore these people and just let them become an irelevence.I'm wondering that by opposing them by sending letters into the paper,you might be infact empowering them.

Does anybody know anything about WCTU?I was under the impression that they were a well organised body.However the pictures in the paper this week made Dick Roche and John Cloono look like a couple of Nut jobs.I wouldn't be surprised if this turned into Waterford's "shell to sea"

I was also under the impression that John Cloono's title of "vice president" of WCTU was one of convenience as it was the first I heard of it.If there was anything in the papers about his appointment to WCTU then it had escaped me.I would be curious anout this.

Merlante is right.No matter what goes in there it will not be "good enough" as long as "big business" is involved.What you see here is far left politics shining through.


Seriously folks.If they get there way here then Waterford will be about as significant as Dungarvan.

merlante

I think the pertinent point here is that while another plaza would be nice, it is not needed, and is not wanted as much as a large shopping centre. A vox pop on the N&S indicated that people are not at all happy with the shopping facilities in the city. They are doing a lot of shopping elsewhere. They are therefore spending a lot of their money elsewhere. As a result, plazas are getting built elsewhere at a quicker rate than they are in Waterford.

Waterford city centre is in stasis. It's offering is matched by much smaller towns. It is demonstrably worse than our peer cities of Limerick and Galway. We have two options: we can purpose build new shopping streets, or we can build a big **** off shopping centre that will hopefully feed streets nearby. New streets ain't going to happen, because it is so hard to do meaningful city planning with the likes of McCann and others around. Always something is found that is deemed to have historical merit. The other option, a new shopping centre, involves less demolition, or more importantly, less impact to streetscapes, so that's the way things are going (unfortunately). But of course you are going to run into McCannesque problems in any case.

The problem with McCann/WASCID, as with many other such groups, if that they obstruct only. They do not suggest alternatives. For every piece of vital development that they object against, they should put forward a real alternative. This will never happen though, because McCann will never give an alternative shopping centre plan, since he simply doesn't like shopping centres. He'll hide behind history or anything else he can find, but that is the truth of the matter.

merlante

Although sending letters to the paper can have the affect of inadvertently keeping these guys going and keeping them determined, I think they are, on the whole, worthwhile.

In the absence of any alternative viewpoint, WASCID would have a weekly missive in the N&S glorifying McCann and his activities, and promoting him as a man of the people. At least now they are under pressure to justify their position.

Freddie59

The problem is that we have a Galway man digging a commercial grave for Waterford.....and are powerless to stop him. I think everything that can be said about this guy has been said, but I wonder what his immediate family (if he is married) think of this carry-on.........especially if they are from Waterford?

As regards the WCTU they are, in every sense, a branch of the SWP. For everything - against everything. Oh yes - we'd like some jobs, but you're not building here. In the name of God, what kind of menatlity is that? Do they have any forward-thinking people in their ranks?

As a union member for 30 years, I am truly disgusted to read this. The WCTU seem more concerned with staying in EVERYONE'S good books instead of using their influence for the betterment of the region. If I'm not mistaken, I think our Mr. Mac was involved with the WCTU some years back. He appears to have left his mark.

The saddest thing is that this person now sees any objection as some kind of personal crusade which he must win at all costs - for reasons best known to himself. I care passionately, as do many others, about this City. I cannot understand the posturing of McCann, WCTU and their ilk. They have started to set this City back 30 years or more. A sad, sad, day. But - hey - it doesn't affect him..he has a job for life at WIT, and will retire on a nice pension.

The planning process seems to be merely a plaything to him. A sad day indeed.:(

deisemum

I'm getting fed up of seeing either McCann or Rita Canney's letters in the News & Star particularly Rita Canney's who's also from Galway.

mad man

deisemum wrote:

I'm getting fed up of seeing either McCann or Rita Canney's letters in the News & Star particularly Rita Canney's who's also from Galway.

This is the problem.They are giving Galway people in Waterford a bad name and in Michael Brennans case people from Kilkenny.They are dying for someone to call them a Blow in.So far they are the only ones who have used the term by alluding that this is the atitude from some towards them.

mad man

Freddie59 wrote:

The problem is that we have a Galway man digging a commercial grave for Waterford.....and are powerless to stop him. I think everything that can be said about this guy has been said, but I wonder what his immediate family (if he is married) think of this carry-on.........especially if they are from Waterford?

As regards the WCTU they are, in every sense, a branch of the SWP. For everything - against everything. Oh yes - we'd like some jobs, but you're not building here. In the name of God, what kind of menatlity is that? Do they have any forward-thinking people in their ranks?

As a union member for 30 years, I am truly disgusted to read this. The WCTU seem more concerned with staying in EVERYONE'S good books instead of using their influence for the betterment of the region. If I'm not mistaken, I think our Mr. Mac was involved with the WCTU some years back. He appears to have left his mark.

The saddest thing is that this person now sees any objection as some kind of personal crusade which he must win at all costs - for reasons best known to himself. I care passionately, as do many others, about this City. I cannot understand the posturing of McCann, WCTU and their ilk. They have started to set this City back 30 years or more. A sad, sad, day. But - hey - it doesn't affect him..he has a job for life at WIT, and will retire on a nice pension.

The planning process seems to be merely a plaything to him. A sad day indeed.:(

Freddie

Would you happen to know if they have genuine affiliations to other unions or are they are self appointed group?To be honest I'm not well up on unions.

For example are they like WASICD.I think what I am saying is do they have a genuine mandate.Are they connected to ICTU or do they geuinely represent any of the unions in Waterford?Have they paid up members etc?

They do not have a website.This is a bad sign in this day and age.

Lets face it we you or I could set up a body called "Decies Union of People and Enterprise" and start sending letters into the paper.People would then be under the impression we we some significant group,It could be nothing more than some guy in an internet Cafe.

Freddie59

mad man wrote:

Freddie

Would you happen to know if they have genuine affiliations to other unions or are they are self appointed group?To be honest I'm not well up on unions.

For example are they like WASICD.I think what I am saying is do they have a genuine mandate.Are they connected to ICTU or do they geuinely represent any of the unions in Waterford?Have they paid up members etc?

They do not have a website.This is a bad sign in this day and age.

Lets face it we you or I could set up a body called "Decies Union of People and Enterprise" and start sending letters into the paper.People would then be under the impression we we some significant group,It could be nothing more than some guy in an internet Cafe.

I fully agree MM!

As I've already said, I cannot understand an umbrella body for a union siding with with a group who are, in effect, obstructing jobs coming to the City.

Unfortunately, unions today seem more concerned about the rights of foreign workers (and that is not a bad thing - provided it is balanced with their existing responsibilities) than looking closer to home.

What it needs is for someone in the WCTU to grow a pair of Kahunas and say "hold on a minute - are we gone mad? A union body objecting to job creation?"

It's so surreal it's unbelieveable.:eek: