Left Turn Ban from Wellington Quay onto Parliament St

Traffic

This ban comes into affect from Sunday 3rd Decmeber in order to improve through traffic flow along the south Quays.

AlekSmart

Cool....This will,especially if combined with a Contra-Flow Bus Lane along the quays speed things up immensely !!!

Bring the Bussez Into town along the South Quays....Stops located at the Riverside.
Then all left-turns across the bridges to position for rapid departure Westwards on the Northern Quays.
Church St
Capel St
O Connell St
Butt.
Matt Talbot
All stops along the Riverside.
Contra-Flow is 24 hr self enforcing ( )
Routes can utilize several diferent bridges as turning points dependent on requirements.

Mind you....It appears that at least some senior personages in the Capitals Adminstration have "Difficulties" with Heuston Station-O Connell Bridge Bus Journey times being allowed to fall significantly below the Luas average.

Simply cant happen it seems......

cast_iron

That's one busy left turn - especially with trucks. Maybe the port tunnel will lessen the effect somewhat.

What will probably happen is all those cars will now have to travel up D'Olier St and Dame St. to do the same route...clogging that route some more.
I hope I'm assuming wrong.

Sarsfield

With the introduction of the ban on left turns into Parliament St (which of course is being universally observed :rolleyes: ) wouldn't it be a good idea to put pedestrian lights there? Is there such a plan?

The current traffic light sequence now finally means there is a period of time where pedestrians can now continue directly from Wellington Quay to Essex Quay. It would be a nice pedestrian friendly gesture to actually put lights there now. It might also discourage the last few people who are continuing to ignore the bar on left turns.

AlekSmart

An excellent idea Sarsfield although this is probably a wee bit hard on these ginnets.

A survey would probably show that the same people turned left from O Connell St onto Eden Quay then hung a right to wrong way across Butt Bridge and then finally managed to get westbound in order to top the performance off at Parliament St.

Traffic

The left turn ban was imposed for two reasons:

To improve traffic flow on the south Quays and
To provide signals for pedestrians crossing across the mouth of Parliament St

AlekSmart

Quote: "To improve traffic flow on the south Quays and
To provide signals for pedestrians crossing across the mouth of Parliament St".

Whilst both of these are laudable in themselves I feel that a somewhat more robust attitude is required to achieve any great level of success.

There is little doubt in my mind that DCC policy in relation to pedestrian control has consistently failed to embrace the one measure which is vital when attempting to ensure a safe environment when faced with high volumes of Traffic at close quarters.

If one travels through any small UK town worth it`s salt you will find pedestrian barriers erected at strategic points to ensure that ped flow is channeled to properly constituted crossing points.
Usually these points will be configured to facilitate BOTH vehicle and pedestrian to manouvere in safety.

Take as an example the Dorset St Improvement Scheme,now approaching completion.

One of the most blatently obvious elements of danger here has been the Ulster Bank premises at the junction with the NCR.
The presence of it`s ATM here has ensured a steady queue of "Stick her up on the Kerbers" at all hours which at times results in a line of such vehicles parked up just where the line of Northbound Buses are attempting to access the very busy stop.

In the old setup there was a somewhat forlorn piece of pedestrian barrier protecting a lamp post on the corner but in the new improved setup we have nothing.
Indeed DCC`s planners have embarked upon a major love affair with the Bollard along Dorset St in what appears to be an attempt to be seen to do something.

The use of kerbside bollards in the Dublin Traffic Control context is largely useless as they are generally seen as items to park one`s vehicle between.

The erection of even a 10 mtr stretch of wrought iron "designer" barrier along Dorset St in front of the Ulster Bank would be a very strong safety statement from DCC and would also greatly benefit Public Transport users who are often forced to board buses out in the middle lane.

In my opinion this is Simple Stuff and really should be built into Roads and Traffic infrastructure during the design stage.
Instead we see a preponderance of innefective bollards and excessive use of white painted hatching in some form of "Cheapo" traffic management exercise.

It was interersting to note that during the recent RPA test borings in Westmoreland St Northbound traffic flow,especially Bus traffic was substantially better due to the Physical barrier which was placed around the drilling equipment which not alone kept vehicles in a distinct lane but kept pedestrians segrated well away from danger.

daymobrew

Sarsfield wrote:

With the introduction of the ban on left turns into Parliament St (which of course is being universally observed :rolleyes: ) wouldn't it be a good idea to put pedestrian lights there? Is there such a plan?

Yes there is. I rang the Traffic Section about a week ago with the same suggestion. It is planned but he couldn't give me an ETA. It's a pity that such a crossing wasn't in place when the turn ban came into force to, as you mentioned, "remind" people of the ban.

Iób

AlekSmart wrote:

There is little doubt in my mind that DCC policy in relation to pedestrian control has consistently failed to embrace the one measure which is vital when attempting to ensure a safe environment when faced with high volumes of Traffic at close quarters.

If one travels through any small UK town worth it`s salt you will find pedestrian barriers erected at strategic points to ensure that ped flow is channeled to properly constituted crossing points.
Usually these points will be configured to facilitate BOTH vehicle and pedestrian to manouvere in safety.

But, interestingly, the more advanced thinking is to take out these barriers, such as in Kensington.
The result has been a reduction in collisions involving pedestrians.

There is a brief introduction to this approach in Wikipedia.

Victor

Different concept. Such a barrier is to stop inappropriate parking / stopping, like taxis who let people out at the Harcourt Luas stop, blocking the flow of traffic (especially if theres a fool of a van driver parked on the footpath outside the Harcourt Centre).

AlekSmart

I have indeed travelled along Ken High St and environs with some UK friends and have noted the new arrangements.

My friends are usually to be heard giving out about the state of Traffic along the Street and how inconsiderate parking ruins things for everybody.
When they go into Give-Out mode I am usually to be found biting my knuckles and shaking uncontrollably.

I cannot find the heart to detail to these prople how far removed from my Dublin Reality their world is.
On my last visit there (Oct ) I was struck by the sheer numbers of Parking Enforcement Officers (Who I understand now have Special Constable Status ??) who were to be found fully engaged in a variety of traffic related duties in the area.

The concept of Clear Streets is indeed an interesting one and undergoing serious study in some Scandanavian countries.
No Speed Limit signs,No Traffic Signals...In fact no barriers of any kind in the belief that the human brain will impliment its own level of control appropriate to the environment it percieves.

Sadly I fear we are a teeny bit away from that yet and any photo taken of Dorset St will certainly not pose a threat to the tidy setup visible in the Ken Hi one !! :eek:

DerekP11

Victor wrote:

Different concept. Such a barrier is to stop inappropriate parking / stopping, like taxis who let people out at the Harcourt Luas stop, blocking the flow of traffic (especially if theres a fool of a van driver parked on the footpath outside the Harcourt Centre).

That "fool of a van driver" is trying to deliver to an office block that was planned and built without any consideration as to how goods can be safely delivered to it without causing an obstruction to traffic flow. It is merely one example out of many across Dublin city.

daymobrew

DerekP11 wrote:

That "fool of a van driver" is trying to deliver to an office block that was planned and built without any consideration as to how goods can be safely delivered to it without causing an obstruction to traffic flow.

Surely the driver can park somewhere more appropriate. It does take more effort and come consideration for others.

In my estate the developers were clever enough to install a bunch of parking bays. Despite this, loads of people park (illegally) on the footpath in front of the house they are living in or visiting, even when the parking bay is directly opposite the house.

In many places, Dublin city lacks the space to provide parking bays, but even when they are provided, people are often too, I don't know, selfish/inconsiderate/ignorant/stupid to use them.

DerekP11, as you are into trains, just look at the brutal parking around Clonsilla and Coolmine train stations. People are not at all considerate.

Victor

DerekP11 wrote:

That "fool of a van driver" is trying to deliver to an office block that was planned and built without any consideration as to how goods can be safely delivered to it without causing an obstruction to traffic flow. It is merely one example out of many across Dublin city.

Is there not a court yard for deliveries accessible from Charlotte Way?

Don't Charlotte Way, Camden Street and Harcourt Road all have 3-4 lanes as opposed to two on Harcourt Street?

DerekP11

Victor wrote:

Is there not a court yard for deliveries accessible from Charlotte Way?

Don't Charlotte Way, Camden Street and Harcourt Road all have 3-4 lanes as opposed to two on Harcourt Street?

The Court yard is for access to the hotel. There is an underground carpark off Charlotte way, but it can't take the height of many vans and its impossible to get into as its code protected. It is not a designated loading area. Im merely pointing out the simple fact that no consideration is given to this aspect when these office blocks are built. The other streets you mention are prone to the same problems of obstruction despite being wider. If loading bays were factored into more of this kind of development, we wouldn't be having this conversation. There's not a single loading bay on Adelaide road/Harcourt road despite the existance of large office complexes such as bearing point, Iveagh Court, the harcourt centre etc. All have regular large scale deliveries from Water to furniture to files.

DerekP11

daymobrew wrote:

Surely the driver can park somewhere more appropriate. It does take more effort and come consideration for others.

In my estate the developers were clever enough to install a bunch of parking bays. Despite this, loads of people park (illegally) on the footpath in front of the house they are living in or visiting, even when the parking bay is directly opposite the house.

In many places, Dublin city lacks the space to provide parking bays, but even when they are provided, people are often too, I don't know, selfish/inconsiderate/ignorant/stupid to use them.

DerekP11, as you are into trains, just look at the brutal parking around Clonsilla and Coolmine train stations. People are not at all considerate.

I woudn't advocate bad parking, but there are examples in relation to deliveries(temporary parking) where it it impossible to do anything else.

As for train station parking, thats long term parking of up to 8 hours or more and anyone parking without consideration causes far more of a problem that any delivery van would. But its also a minefield of an issue that includes car dependency to reach the station and poor parking facilities at the station. I won't get into here as I think we've all strayed way off the topic.

As for Parliament street...a good decision in terms of a pedestrian city, but a poor one in terms of a car city. Dublin is still a car city and until we go some way towards solving that, then this decision will add to congestion.

AlekSmart

It remains the stuff of conjecture just exactly what our City Planners,Managers,Designers and their retinue actually draw down their salary for .

With the honourable exceptions of Mssrs Redmond,Lawlor,Burke and others who have at least been revealed in their glory we have no idea what your average senior City Planning functionary does for their days work.

Perhaps they have offices with funny mirrors such as the ones in Bray Amusements in order to allow them a proper perspective on the world outside.

Consider this.....

The Ilac Centre.
The Irish Life Centre.
The St Stephens Green Centre.
The Setanta Centre.
The Jervis Centre
The Parnell Centre.
The BHS/Penneys Store.
The Arnotts Redevelopment.
The Civic Offices.

Over a period spanning 30 years and still continuing to this day,we are asked to believe that not a SINGLE Public Functionary felt sufficiently public spirited to seek the provision for so much as a Public Rickshaw in ANY of these large scale and highly profitable developments.

Yet in true Irish style we slap the backs of departing City Managers,Directors of Traffic and assorted Senior Planning Officials who departing for more lucrative positions leave behind them scenes of utter chaos as half-completed half baked grande schemes come to a grinding halt as the lack of sufficient administrative intelligence becomes ever more apparent.

If ye don`t believe me Derek spend 10 minutes observing the Taxi Drivers attempting to use their shiny new profesionally planned Taxi Rank on O Connell St.... :eek:

DerekP11

AlekSmart wrote:

If ye don`t believe me Derek spend 10 minutes observing the Taxi Drivers attempting to use their shiny new profesionally planned Taxi Rank on O Connell St.... :eek:

Ive seen it and now theres a proposal to run the luas around it.

chuckberry

AlekSmart wrote:

It remains the stuff of conjecture just exactly what our City Planners,Managers,Designers and their retinue actually draw down their salary for .

With the honourable exceptions of Mssrs Redmond,Lawlor,Burke and others who have at least been revealed in their glory we have no idea what your average senior City Planning functionary does for their days work.

Perhaps they have offices with funny mirrors such as the ones in Bray Amusements in order to allow them a proper perspective on the world outside.

Consider this.....

The Ilac Centre.
The Irish Life Centre.
The St Stephens Green Centre.
The Setanta Centre.
The Jervis Centre
The Parnell Centre.
The BHS/Penneys Store.
The Arnotts Redevelopment.
The Civic Offices.

Over a period spanning 30 years and still continuing to this day,we are asked to believe that not a SINGLE Public Functionary felt sufficiently public spirited to seek the provision for so much as a Public Rickshaw in ANY of these large scale and highly profitable developments.

Yet in true Irish style we slap the backs of departing City Managers,Directors of Traffic and assorted Senior Planning Officials who departing for more lucrative positions leave behind them scenes of utter chaos as half-completed half baked grande schemes come to a grinding halt as the lack of sufficient administrative intelligence becomes ever more apparent.

If ye don`t believe me Derek spend 10 minutes observing the Taxi Drivers attempting to use their shiny new profesionally planned Taxi Rank on O Connell St.... :eek:

Departing Directors of Traffic! Not the idiot now &%uking up the traffic completely in Dun Laoire!!!

Shurely shome mistake!!!!

Victor

DerekP11 wrote:

The Court yard is for access to the hotel.

I think there is a small loading bay for the offices.

AlekSmart

Just to keep the Kettle boiling on this thread.

I took the liberty to e-mail the DCC on the Dorset St/NCR junction arrangements.
However my e-mail promptly expired so although I do know a response was sent (Twice) I have no idea what it was (F*&k Off Probably !)
Sadly it appears that the DCC is sticking with it`s tried and twisted "Load of oul Bollards" scenario here,as the workin men have been busy settin the things into the kerb outside the Ulster Bank premises.

Its sad really as the bollard arrangement does Zippo for either Pedestrian or Motorist safety and in fact makes it MORE dangerous as the car driver will now stop FURTHER from the kerb in order to allow the passenger door to swing open and the passenger to slip BETWEEN the Bollards.

If there was a proper pedestrian barrier here this dangerous selfish nonsense would be avoided.
Its also quite a pity as there is evidence further north of a fairly robust attitude to Junction safety.
The final arrangement at Collins Ave/Whitehall Rd junction is now operational and features a VERY comprehensive pedestrian barrier arrangement,albeit a trife utilitarian in design as it uses the standard galvanized section tubing.

My suggestion for the Dorset/NCR pavement was to use the slimmer round-section stainless steel barrier as used on the central refuge between the ulster Bank and The Big Tree.
This SS tubing is I feel as good an aesthetic compromise one will find in an unban landscape combining looks with efficiency.

Ah well...I did my best......Now to try and get the very large pothole on Drumcondra Bridge Northbound repaired.......for keeps this time and not just the Lads in the Transit wit a shovelfull of gravel.........:eek:

Sarsfield

I bet you can imagine how pleased I was today as I watched a Dublin City Council van make a left turn from the quays onto Parliament St! :rolleyes: