Geothermal or Wood Pellets

delinkerry

I have just starting building and have to make the decision on what type of heating to use for 3300 sq.ft Block/Stone houe. Think the choice is

1) Ground Source Heat Pump
2) Pellet Bolier

And Solar panels for water in the summer time

Been looking for Quotes but Ground Source seem to be coming in at 20-30K which seems a bit pricey and Pellet Boliers which seem to be coming in from anything from 5-15k.

Just wondering if anyone else been through same decision making recently

0lordy

Going through the decision process right now, so I won't really be of help, just have more questions!

I have talked to three different sources who recently installed geothermal heating, and are all extremely satisfied with it. Not much on the "calf nuts" option, just that it is cost-effective, though you will require significant space to enable the bulk storage.

For solar, the back of the house will need to be south facing, unless you're OK with the panels being visible to the front.

Anyway, my question is,this: I want to install geothermal, with solar power, but also a solid fuel stove with back boiler. Will a back boiler work with underfloor heating? are there any potential risks involved in this set-up?

JosephQ

Going through the same. I have decided to go for the following pellet boiler that bunrs pellets, wood chippings and corn from Baxi. Also decided to get under floor Heating to run from it. 2 wind turbines possibly from a scottish company called Renewable Devices www.renewabledevices.com if you want to look also some solar panels if I worked it a out right i should be able to go off grid

Gugán

delinkerry wrote:

I have just starting building and have to make the decision on what type of heating to use for 3300 sq.ft Block/Stone houe. Think the choice is

1) Ground Source Heat Pump
2) Pellet Bolier

And Solar panels for water in the summer time

Been looking for Quotes but Ground Source seem to be coming in at 20-30K which seems a bit pricey and Pellet Boliers which seem to be coming in from anything from 5-15k.

Just wondering if anyone else been through same decision making recently

We are also building a block house and our builder is strongly recommending
two vertical geothermal bores, and reckons no solar panels are needed as the geothermal is that efficient. Anyone have any ideas on that?? The 2 holes are due to size of house, and ground is very rocky so horizontal is out.

mjffey

JosephQ wrote:

Going through the same. I have decided to go for the following pellet boiler that bunrs pellets, wood chippings and corn from Baxi. Also decided to get under floor Heating to run from it. 2 wind turbines possibly from a scottish company called Renewable Devices www.renewabledevices.com if you want to look also some solar panels if I worked it a out right i should be able to go off grid

Is this a virus going around Irland?:D We are thinking along the same line, but will go for a multi fuel stove with backboiler as we need something that can take turf also.

I will be watching this thread.

yop

Putting in Solar with the Geo is supposidly a waste of time alright, not sure why, maybe payback is too long.
We have our Geo and very happy with it.

mjffey

yop wrote:

Putting in Solar with the Geo is supposidly a waste of time alright, not sure why, maybe payback is too long.
We have our Geo and very happy with it.

You know,

Sometimes people are not that much interested in the "what do I get back for my money" thing or, to put it in other words, "what is the payback time"

Sometimes people just do it for other reasons; the environment, or not to see their ESB bill increasing all the time because those people want a pay rise, or an even higher salary then they already have, or just because they like the idea of doing something different, etc etc.:)

kvw

mjffey wrote:

You know,

Sometimes people are not that much interested in the "what do I get back for my money" thing or, to put it in other words, "what is the payback time"

Sometimes people just do it for other reasons; the environment, or not to see their ESB bill increasing all the time because those people want a pay rise, or an even higher salary then they already have, or just because they like the idea of doing something different, etc etc.:)

I fully agree,

the feel-good factor alone from the solar is worth it for me

300 litres of hot water for the family to shower with after a good mornings sunshine always brings a satisfied smile to the face.

DaBreno

Quick question that those for have Geothermal installed : who did you get to do it and How much did it cost? We currently have an Oil tank out the back with Radiators all over the house (a single weater tank) and were thinking of getting this in to work along side or replace the oil. Its currently costing €700 to fill the tank and it will last 3 months maybe. Am I right in thinking that Geothermal(might be the Vertical option in my case) is basically free energy as it comes from underground ie. I can leave it turned on for most of the day and not worry about bills? Hope so

Viking House

We are building Passive houses at the moment with Eco heating systems.

On the first house is 500m2 near Ashbourne we will instal a Heat Pump just in case the climate changes and he is also fitting 14m2 of Veissmann solar panels with a small swimming pool to take the heat during the summer (On their website Veissmann claim to be able to take energy from the moon). This house is built with 25cm Poroton blocks and 20cm of Granitewool external insulation and a Poroton middle floor. We will also use insulated shutters there that come down at night, conserving heat.

The second Passive house in Ballymore Eustace is also built with 25cm Poroton blocks but this time with 12cms of external granitewool insulation. We will cocoon the living area and only heat this zone where people spend 90% of their time. We will also use a lot of Solar panels and the back up heating will be a mini woodchip boiler, our initial estimates are that the heating load will be about 250kgs of woodpellets per year mainly because there is nobody at home all day. If this client proceeds with the south facing conservatory then no heating at all will be needed. The conservatory will be seperated from the house by external doors and used as a heat trap. It will preheat the air for the HRV unit.

The third house is a timberframe passive house with 12 inches of insulation in the walls and a lot of solar panels with a mini wood pellet boiler as back up.

The extra money spent on insulation and eliminating cold bridges is offset by savings in the size of the heating system.

billy_beckham

Hello Viking House,
I live in Ballymore Eustace and am wondering where the house that you are building is...is it the one on barrack street by any chance??

Billy...........

GG66

JosephQ wrote:

Going through the same. I have decided to go for the following pellet boiler that bunrs pellets, wood chippings and corn from Baxi.

where did you source the baxi boiler? Ireland or scotland?

Does anyone know if this multifuel boilers qualify for SEI grants?

Qwerty?

DaBreno wrote:

Am I right in thinking that Geothermal(might be the Vertical option in my case) is basically free energy as it comes from underground ie. I can leave it turned on for most of the day and not worry about bills? Hope so

Not quite. It still uses electricity to convert this 'free energy' to a suitable temp to heat your house. You also have two pumps, one to bring the brine from outside into your heatpump, and one to circulate it around the house. Unfortunately, you are also mistaken in thinking you can replace your oil burner with this. It's not going to work with your existing radiators. You'ld probably be better looking at converting to pellets.

yop

You can also get a DX or Direct Expansion system which we have installed. Eliminates the need for one of the pumps.

Rads are not suited to Geo so you maybe better going down pellet route

Viking House

billy_beckham wrote:

Hello Viking House,
I live in Ballymore Eustace and am wondering where the house that you are building is...is it the one on barrack street by any chance??
Billy...........

Hi Billy

Sorry for the late reply Billy, its the one on Barrack Street alright.
We started a second one there last week. This time in Timber Frame.

anne k

I am building a house in mayo and am at the start of the block laying stage. Am trying to pick a provider for a geo thermal system. does anyone have
experience of installing geo thermal? was hoping to install ufh downstairs and rads upstairs.
Has anyone used energy master from kerry? they are ascerting that their
system can do rads but am worried as everything i have read indicates ufh is all thats possible with geo thermal

Does anyone have any views on the best heating system to install
wood pellet vs geo?

luapenak

Qwerty? wrote:

You also have two pumps, one to bring the brine from outside into your heatpump, and one to circulate it around the house.

As a matter of interest, what is the energy consumption of these pumps like?

fatchance

I'm soooo confused at this stage. I have installed ufh both upstairs and down and in the existing part of the dwelling there is 5 rads.

I can't seem to be able to decide on Geothermal (either air to water or ground to water) or wpb?

Seriously considering just installing a good oil boiler to begin with and insulating the house well, just until all this confusion that the Greener Homes grants has created settles down. Since the grants were anounced all sorts of products and installers have sprouted up all over the place and it worries me a little that alot of people are being used as lab rats with these systems.

Am I wrong? The more I research on Geothermal (either air to water or ground to water), wpb and solar, the more green shows I attend the more confused I get.

I need independant advice on a heating system which suits MY house, from someone who is not trying to sell me their product! Is there anyone who does this?

yop

Fatchance - Just to get it right in your head there, Geothermal refers only to ground sourced heat pumps or GSHP. These can be loops in the ground (horizontal) or the bore hole (drilled down into ground or vertical loop).

Air sourced heats pumsp or ASHP take the heat from the air to heat the water for your house.

There is also a water to water heat pump where you use a loop in a river or lake and it takes the heat from this source.

From what research I have done in terms of which is more efficent (highest COP), it seems that it runs from the water to water, bore hole, horizontal loop and air sourced, where water to water is the most efficent, and air sourced been the least efficent.

I suppose a lot of it depends on your site setup, if you have the room for a horizontal loop, if you have a lake/river near by or maybe you don't have room for any of them and an ASHP is your only option.

Of course there are also the other options of passive heating, pellets burners, solar panels etc.

It is also a case of what you can afford, maybe you don;t like the idea of a heat pump needing electricity to work, maybe you don't like the idea of having solar panels outside, that you don't fancy having the possibility of your pellets running out and not having any heat.

Gluck with your choice

GG66

fatchance wrote:

I need independant advice on a heating system which suits MY house, from someone who is not trying to sell me their product! Is there anyone who does this?

Been through the same decision making and sympathise with you, it's confusing . Add as much insulation as you can, it's the cheapest way of saving on your heating costs..........regardless of what type of heating you install.

Oil will be expensive with UFH as it needs to be on a lot. Rather than add to any confusion here I suggest you do as you're inclined and contact an independent professional. A few hundred euro could be very well spent.

See thread here:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054981533

GG66

fatchance wrote:

I need independant advice on a heating system which suits MY house, from someone who is not trying to sell me their product! Is there anyone who does this?

Been through the same decision making and sympathise with you, it's confusing . Add as much insulation as you can, it's the cheapest way of saving on your heating costs..........regardless of what type of heating you install.

Oil will be expensive with UFH as it needs to be on a lot. Rather than add to any confusion here I suggest you do as you're inclined and contact an independent professional. That's what I would do if I were to do it again, save alot of time and confusion and hopefully money too. Could be money very well spent.

See thread here:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054981533

Capt'n Midnight

Have you considered no heating ?

If you superinsulate and use heat recovery ventilation, would passive heating be enough ?

Qwerty?

luapenak wrote:

As a matter of interest, what is the energy consumption of these pumps like?

Can't see a KW rating on them (I see a Combined 2.4 Amps listed for them - but don't know is that of any use) They are two small Grunfos pumps, similar to the ones used in normal Home Heating circuits.

kerrymaninld

Don't know if this still stands but Grant Engineering (Birr, Co Offally) had an offer whereby you buy their condensing oil boiler (the most efficient boiler in the British Isles at 94.2%) and when they bring out their wood pellet boiler you can cut over to that for free if you are not happy with it. Grant are taking ages to bring out a wood pellet boiler, but in fairness to them they won't rush a product to market ...which some other companies could possibly be accused of (just because there are SEI grants going a-beggin).

You can get Grant boilers in any good DIY/hardware merchant.

Might be worth a look...give Grant in Birr a call and ask them for details.


(p.s. no I don't work for them, nor am I associated with them in any way).

galwaytt

if you're using UFH - forget the stove - see my posts, HERE

I'm finishing a 316 sq m house, and did the calcs - the cost of Geo is not sustainable, and the ongoing elec bill, and extra cost for the heavier supply, makes it uneconomic. But that's the ESB for you, anything to be awkward......

I have solar and gas fitted, awaiting 2nd fix.