Right of way?

penexpers

I witnessed a nasty incident this morning where a truck was turning left into a car park and a cyclist was going straight on. Truck indicated in time but cyclist kept on going up alongside the truck. The truck knocked the cyclist off his bike and then buckled the wheel for good measure. No-one was injured which was a relief.

The question I have is in this case who has the right of way? I was under the impression that the cyclist going straight on would have right of way.

Pigeon Reaper

I imagine it depends on circumstance such as presence of a cycle lane. If the truck overtook the cyclist and then turned it's very different to the cyclist moving up the inside of the truck. Trucks tend to have large blindspots alongside and just in front so the driver can check mirrors and not see a cyclist. Either way the truck comes out better off so I always give way to them. Doesn't matter who's right if you're 6ft under.

daymobrew

If the trunk had not overtaken the cyclist, I would put the cyclist at fault, for being a fool.

Last night I was cycling east on the Navan Road with another cyclist about 30metres ahead of me. Ahead both of us was a bus indicating that it was pulling into a bus stop. When traffic ahead of the bus moved, the bus went to pull in. Right at that moment, the cyclist overtook the bus on the left. Fair play to the observant bus driver, who saw this impatient move and waited.
I held back to allow the bus to pull in. I was held up for about 3 seconds. In that case I would have put the blame on the cyclist.

Pigeon Reaper wrote:

Doesn't matter who's right if you're 6ft under.

Absolutely. When taking a risk, you have to consider the consequences and reevaluate your decision if they are too great for you.

corktina

no such thing as right of way.....no good standing on your rights with a truck on top of you......might is right...or small gives way to big:)

saobh_ie

Obviously the truck had right of way because it was in front, he would have to yield to pedestrians on the footpath but bicycles are supposed to be on the road and therefore subject to the rules of the road. Extremly poor observation and stupidity from the cyclist, he's absolutly blessed that he isn't dead.

A post from www.irishbikerforum.com that has some valuable truck lessons in it.

carsqhere wrote:

As an ex truck driver married to a civil engineer I can tell you that roundabouts are usually built to the minimum possible size (cost) and frequently less (space constraints in retrofit situations). Put simply, Civil Engineers design roads for cars. All other traffic is basically incedental to the design. Even recently built roads (like the M1 Drogheda Bypass) have roundabouts that are difficult to negotiate safely in a truck.

Clipping a kerb with the wheel an off-balance trailer is enough to send it over, & once it goes, there's nothing the driver can do. Very little speed is required. All that's needed is a poorly distributed load, or a sudden gust of wind at the wrong moment & it's over. Badly maintained vehicles are a factor too.

Anyway, this thread has got me thinking... so;
Some biking tips from a truck drivers perspective:

- If you can't see the driver in his door mirror, he can't see you.
- If you can see the driver, he probably hasn't noticed you.
- There's a giant blind spot directly in front & to the left of the cab easily capable of consealing a bike.
- Never go up the inside of a left turning truck. With an Artic, once the cab turns, the driver can't see you on the inside (Mirrors are pointing at the front of the trailer) so if he stops, & you nip up the left, you're in the crush zone and you *will not* be seen. This, tragically, is how many cyclists get killed with trucks turning on to the quays.
- Tipper trucks are easily blown over while tipping a load (they're off balance) so always give these a wide berth if passing one tipping at roadworks etc. If you're in traffic, try not to stop adjacent to a working tipper.

Overtaking a truck:
- Don't sit alongside. When you have a clear overtake, get on the power & get past.
- Likewise on dual carrigeways/motorways, avoid sitting alongside. If the truck has to swerve/gets blown off lane, you're in the kill zone. Either hang back or pass cleanly.

Apologies if that's all a bit preacher-man, or a bit obvious, but this stuff matters!

Normal service will now resume...

Dec

cast_iron

The "right of way" would be fairly case specific.

But as to who was liable - truck driver - full stop.

I would have some sympathy for the cyclist in this case (as it appears). I the truck hadn't started turning, then the trucker should have seen him. The indicators on a truck can be difficult to see from the side of it.

saobh_ie

Did you read the first post?

Truck indicated in time but cyclist kept on going up alongside the truck.

corktina

i read it as the cyclist tried to under-take the truck......thats the risk they take all the time ......

cast_iron

saobh_ie wrote:

Did you read the first post?

Yes, it's not entirely clear.

The truck could have indicated "in time", but what does that mean? In time for what? The cars behind? If the bike was alongside the truck when he started indicating, then it's a different matter. Maybe he was behind and undertook it?

The "cyclist kept on going up alongside the truck" would really mean he was alongside it already.

In any case, I wasn't there, so don't know. But my opinion is based on the OP.

Capt'n Midnight

Can anyone remember when you are allowed to pass on the left ?

cyclopath2001

Capt'n Midnight wrote:

Can anyone remember when you are allowed to pass on the left ?

In slow-moving traffic.

'Right of way' only refers to paths across land.

On the road, the principal is called 'priority'. Mostly, it applies to junctions.

One detail I'm not clear on: at what distance from the turn did the truck overtake the cyclist before stopping to turn left?

Zoney

Brand new cycle lanes outside the University of Limerick (the road past the Uni was rebuilt with cycle lanes, new pavement, new Uni junction and new lighting last year). A cyclist was nevertheless recently killed near the Castletroy Park Hotel by collision with a truck that was using a temporary exit for a construction site. The exit was directly onto the main road, crossing over the footpath (and cycle lane). They now have construction site warning signs up on the main road either side of the exit for the Hotel (the construction site exit was closed, trucks go via the hotel car park now), warning pedestrians and cyclists. However, the cycle lane continues with the main road across the hotel exit, no yield signs or anything painted on it. The hotel exit has yield signs painted on the road, but no actual signpost with yield. I presume cyclists have right of way though?

The cycle lane passing through the junction for the Uni (i.e. not into UL, but straight on) is pretty hairy too - it cuts across the left turn (into Uni) lane, passing downhill between the two car lanes to the lights and across the (baseball field sized) main box of the junction. There's also a laneway for the Waterworks near the start of the road, this has usually been devoid of traffic, but recently construction traffic is using it. There are yield signs painted on the cycle lane (which is on separate pavement at this point) but I suspect many cyclists wouldn't even realise what the triangle meant even if they did notice it. The yield sign for the laneway has been damaged (now faces the wrong way), and is obscured from view when exiting the laneway. There is no sign warning of cyclists, and anyone emerging will have their hands full as it is onto a bend just after the roundabout on the Dublin Road on this very busy road.

All in all, a quite worrying stretch of road for all the clean new-ness of the cycle lanes, pavements, road and lights.

Seth Brundle

cyclopath2001 wrote:

In slow-moving traffic.

'Right of way' only refers to paths across land.

On the road, the principal is called 'priority'. Mostly, it applies to junctions.

Whats this then?

daymobrew

Zoney wrote:

All in all, a quite worrying stretch of road for all the clean new-ness of the cycle lanes, pavements, road and lights.

Contact the Transportation department of the local county council. Get them to explain how/who designed such a piece of crap.

cyclopath2001

kbannon wrote:

Whats this then?

It really means 'you do not have priority'. The Irish version is Geill Sli ('Give Way'), omitting any reference to any 'right'. This is an incorrect translation from the Irish. It's not uncommon to find anomalies in the road laws. They're riddled with inconsistencies & contradictory definitions.

But the original post is asking the wrong question, the incident is not a question of 'right of way' but of 'unsafe overtaking'. BTW The ISM from where you've quoted the sign, has a partial interpretation of the overtaking laws. It states: Do not overtake unless you can do so without risk to yourself or to others . It omits that it is illegal to overtake, if to do so would cause inconvenience.

In the incident described in the original post, such a sign was not present, so, both people had equal priority.

Full details of all circumstances leading to the incident have not been described, so it's not possible to express an informed opinion about fault.

John_C

If the truck had recently overtaken a bike the driver should have remembered and yielded.

If the bike was the faster moving vehicle it should have overtaken on the right or not at all, undertaking a truck is very dangerous.

Del2005

Don't know about this case but there is a reason why some trucks have signs on there rear mudflaps.

<-Suicide

Right Side ->

When a truck is turning left they often have to move out from the left hand side of the road to swing the trailer in and loads of people in cars and on bike try and undertake the truck and end up getting hit. As said before trucks have HUGE blind areas and nothing can be seen in these. If a bike is coming up on the left the driver may not see it. Always assume the driver hasn't seen you and then you are safe. The truck will always win so don't risk it.

cyclopath2001

John_C wrote:

If the truck had recently overtaken a bike the driver should have remembered and yielded.If the bike was the faster moving vehicle it should have overtaken on the right or not at all, undertaking a truck is very dangerous.

Cycling on the South City Quays, I've often been overtaken trucks, leaving me half-way along as the truck slows down and begins to close the gap between me and the kerb.

saobh_ie

As regards this right of way stuff. A phrase that stuck with me after being told early on in my driving/biking career.

"You can be right and you can be dead right."

You could have done everything to the letter of the law, there would be no doubt as to who was at fault for the accident, but thats feck all use to you if your dead.

Another thing I was told was...

"Don't f**k with trucks."

Apoligies for the language but it kinda rythmes.