Minimum wages being paid ????

gyppo

Got the tail end of a discussion on Matt Coopers program on Today FM yesterday. It concerned employers choosing immigrant workers over indigenous workers for job vacancies, and that the minimum wage might not be paid in many cases..... did I pick up on this correctly?

What are peoples views on this?

Before anyone starts flaming me, I believe all workers are entitled to the minimum wage, regardless of nationality/ethnicity, etc.. What I do find objectionable however, is the practice of employers:
1 Exploiting immigrant workers as a source of cheap labour
2 Discriminating against those who would be in a position make a fuss if not paid the minimum wage.

themole

I agree with you that minimun wage should be paid, and exploitation of migrant workers is unacceptable.

There are only one or two cases where payment below miniumum wage is possible, or acceptable and this is in the case of seasonal temporary work. Sometimes there are some jobs, such as strawberry picking, which would not be there at all if "full" wages had to be paid. In this case it makes more sense to fly people in who will work for a few months and then fly them back with money in their pocket.

What i find wholely unacceptable is anyone being paid below minimum wage and being expected to live here. With our cost of living that is never acceptable to me.

Ruu_Old

Moved over from AH, chuck it back in my direction if its not in the right spot. Thanks mods.

Wishbone Ash

The Minimum Wage Act 2000 does not apply to the remuneration of a person who is the spouse, father, mother, grandfather, grandmother, step-father, step-mother, son, daughter, step-son, step-daughter, grandson, grand-daughter, brother, sister, half-brother or half-sister of an employer, employed by the employer, nor does it apply to employees under 18 years of age.

themole wrote:

There are only one or two cases where payment below miniumum wage is possible, or acceptable and this is in the case of seasonal temporary work. Sometimes there are some jobs, such as strawberry picking, which would not be there at all if "full" wages had to be paid.

I don't think the Minimum Wage Act precludes 'seasonal' workers but I'm open to correction. Many strawberry growers etc. employ persons under 18 years of age and therefore are only legally required to pay them 75%(?) of the Minimum Wage.

galah

It is an absolute disgrace to employ immigrants (or anyone willing to work below minimum wage) - but it's equally a disgrace that people in those jobs don't speak up, and don't harrass their employers to get paid at least the minimum wage!

I mean, there's plenty of work out there, so noone should put up with this kind of stuff, immigrant or not. If everyone demands their fair wage, companies would not be able to exploit people.

So apart from naming and shaming companies that exploit people, we should also educate immigrants about their rights (or provide them with information to educate themselves - the information is out there, e.g. on oasis.gov.ie).

But I have the nasty suspicion that is will stay that way - some people make way more money here than in their home country, minimum wage or not...And if you're only out to make a little bit of money, your life style does not matter, either...

Wishbone Ash

galah wrote:

it's equally a disgrace that people in those jobs don't speak up, and don't harrass their employers to get paid at least the minimum wage!

In fairness to them galah, they may not always be aware of their employer's statutory requirements. They may have been recruited at a rate which seemed good in their home country without knowing the costs of living here. Many people in those jobs may be poorly educated, unable to speak English and may not have the wherewithall to know their rights. Many of the companies that are not paying the minimun wage are foreign owned and exploiting their own people - like a very well known Turkish construction company. Many Irish people are also unaware of their employment rights. I regularly see posts here regarding aspects of employment practices which are totally illegal.

galah

Wishbone Ash wrote:

In fairness to them galah, they may not always be aware of their employer's statutory requirements. They may have been recruited at a rate which seemed good in their home country without knowing the costs of living here. Many people in those jobs may be poorly educated, unable to speak English and may not have the wherewithall to know their rights. Many of the companies that are not paying the minimun wage are foreign owned and exploiting their own people - like a very well known Turkish construction company. Many Irish people are also unaware of their employment rights. I regularly see posts here regarding aspects of employment practices which are totally illegal.

I know - and that's why I said we (as in, the people working here - technically, I am an immigrant too - but I know my rights, and I also know my duties, and I had to find out myself, but I consider myself lucky as I do speak the language and know where to get information) need to provide means of education. I am sorry, but if I move to a different country, the first thing I find out is what's going on in terms of taxes, employment rights etcetc - just to be on the safe side!

But you are right - there's an amazing amount of Irish people who don't know their rights or duties either...makes me wonder, somehow...

Wertz

I work in the trades and this practice is rife.

In a lot of cases guys fresh off the boat/plane are hard up for a start and are given a "take it or leave it" attitude by employers.
Lack of english and knowledge of their rights means that they're at a loss.

Trouble is that it's down to this that wages are falling in a lot of areas of the construction industry....I know it's the old "wah wah they took our jobs" story, but it's happening. I recently switched firms and as an experienced and skilled worker in my trade, I had it hard to get even close to union rates for the simple reason that there are guys out there willing to work for half and less of my rate.

In fact in a lot of the trades, even immigrants willing to work AT the minimum wage are undermining domestic workers...and to complicate things even further, some of the accession states with the EU's help, are working on reducing training time for major trades like plumbing and electrician down to 17 weeks (it takes 3-4 years to serve time here).
Now times are good here in the building industry but it simply can't last forever and when harder times come as they invariably will, any company's best means of cutting overheads is to get rid of the high earners.

gyppo

Talking to a work mate today. He was telling me about the position his mother now finds herself in.

She has worked 9 years as a nurses aide in a private nursing home, getting the minimum hourly rate. She was rostered for about 25 hrs work per week, on average, and paid on an hourly basis. Over the last 3 years, every indigenous employee who left this place has been replaced by an immigrant worker.
There are now two original employees remaining from a total of 14. The two remaining have found their rostered hours have been reduced to about 9-10 hours per week.
She and her work colleague feel that the reduction in the hours allocated to them is a deliberate ploy by their employer to make them leave - no doubt their positions will be filled by immigrant workers.

Which begs the question - are the immigrant workers in this place recieving the minimum wage?