Rage against the Machine !!!

KTRIC

Have you ever lost it with a Cager that just blatantly cuts you off ??

I was toddling along making my sleepy way to work this morning down the Tallaght by-pass when I arrived at a set of lights. Just as I stopped the car-van beside me (kangoo or something) decided he wanted to occupy the space where I was and just pulled into my lane and nearly hit me.
I jammed on my weedy little horn and he pulled back and when he stopped he was just inches from me. Bear in mind this happened in a matter of seconds and whilst the traffic was coming to a stop (still moving) at the lights.

Needless to say I f**king lost it. I reached over and thumped his passenger window so hard my hand actually bounced off it (i didn't know they were that tough :eek: ) and then to top it off (for effect) I opened the door and had a good aul scream at him. The look on his face was f**king priceless


So the moral of the story is, forget your CE protectors and helmet* and use fear as your protection.

Cagers might start to take some notice of us when there's a couple of reports in the papers of them getting assaulted by bikers.



*ignore this advice

madrab

you need to get some reinforced knuckles so you can just punch through the window

seamus

A mate of mine did the same thing. A woman pulled out from the left while he was coming along, requiring him to swerve to avoid her (strangely enough, the exact same thing happened to me about two weeks after his incident). He completely lost it, and at the next set of lights, hopped off and punched her driver's window full force. His hand bounced off too. He spent the entire sequence of lights screaming blue murder at the woman, then when the lights went green she sped off in terror. I'm pretty sure she never did it again though

Idleater

seamus wrote:

A woman pulled out from the left while he was coming along, requiring him to swerve to avoid her...

Well, they are obviously all out today...

some dozy bint in her nice shiny warm airconditioned hyundai coupe decided that the queue going the other way was better than the queue going her way was "better" so proceeded to
1) indicate (thankfully).
2) ignore other road users that are both approaching from behind her (me) and in front of her in the other direction
3) and do a U-Turn causing me to stop and the cars coming in the other direction to stop.

GRR.

I just clapped my hands at her.

"expect the unexpected"...

L.

K-tric - same reply in your Biker.ie thread :bag:

subway

i dont wait for the to **** up anymore,
i just start honking when i know there going to **** up.

anyone on a roundabout doing the "swervy turn" gets a honk
u turn in traffic gets a honk
etc etc

usually makes them stop whatver there doing, i go buy and thye go back to trying to kill people

stipey

... and I was wondering why we have such a bad name among other road users. I know its infuriating when stuff like this happens but I fail to see what losing the head at somebody is going to achieve.

A shake of the head, a quick point to mirrors or indicators or that "Watch where you're going" gesture (where you use your index and middle fingers to point to your eyes) gets the message across without giving the impression that you are a luantic, thug or scumbag.

As an aside, would you try the same approach with a lad who looks like he could easily beat seven shades of sh1te out of you or probably has a crowbar/gun on the floor? If not, doesn't that make you a bully?

subway

it works both ways.
i went to the front of the queue at a red light.
started hearing the car behind revving loudly.

paid no attention, took off normally,
looked in mirror and theres a bmw inches from my back wheel.
flashed the brake light and he didnt back off.

at the next speed bump i accelaretd a bit faster to get away as i thought he would slow down to pass over. no such luck, the guy floored it and is now chasing my at about 35 miles an hour inchs from my wheel.

he then undetakes me at about 60 past some shops.
he didnt make it tho as the bit of road he was using to undertake was for cars to park so he was facing 6 concrete bollards ahead of him.
he jams on the brakes and turns sideways across me.
i come to a dead stop and look at him in shock.
he rolls down his winow, red faced and screams something at me along the lines of "bikes arent allowed go to the front of a queue, his bmw is faster than my bike so i shouldnt overtake him" only with more swears and insults in it

so midway thorugh his scream i just revved the bike to about 8000 whcih shut him up and then took off down the road, he tore after me again, but ran into a queue of traffic at the net lights, which i rolled to the front of.

KTRIC

stipey wrote:

.I know its infuriating when stuff like this happens but I fail to see what losing the head at somebody is going to achieve.

Well if it teaches one moron to use his mirrors then I have achived my goal

stipey wrote:

As an aside, would you try the same approach with a lad who looks like he could easily beat seven shades of sh1te out of you or probably has a crowbar/gun on the floor? If not, doesn't that make you a bully?

What if , what if , what if ??. Thats the same attitude that too many Irish have and where did it get us, lying over a barrel getting it up the ass from our beloved government, thats where :mad: .


I'm certainly not a bully, I'm just sticking up for myself. I paid enough for my bike, insurance and gear and I'm certainly not going to be run off the road by some f**ker that can't (or couldn't be bothered to) use his mirrors.

Idleater

stipey wrote:

A shake of the head, a quick point to mirrors or indicators or that "Watch where you're going" gesture (where you use your index and middle fingers to point to your eyes) gets the message across

I agree. Like K-Tric, I have done it in the past and will do it again in the future, but I always try to count to ten and do something humerous if I can.

I liked my clapping at the lady this morning. I also like the susshhh one at someone that is beeping like crazy when there is completely no point in doing so.

The Red Mist as it is known in the Police Motorcycle Riders Handbook is very dangerous and when it descends on us, we are even more vulnerable.

I do think that when we (and being honest we all do it sometimes) should realise that a small proportion of the blame for whatever incident that caused us to go ballistic at someone must rest on our own shoulders for missing one of the "expect the unexpected" things that can creep up and bite each and every one of us in the ass.


L.

subway

KTRIC wrote:

I paid enough for my bike, insurance and gear and I'm certainly not going to be run off the road by some f**ker that can't (or couldn't be bothered to) use his mirrors.

but it was an accident...
and he didnt see you...
and you were going to fast...
and you scared him...

and so on and so on,
theyll have a million excuses when they do hit you,
so i think yout right take the affirmative action and dont let them hit you in the first place.

beep beep beep beep all the way home

stipey

Well if it teaches one moron to use his mirrors then I have achived my goal...

I'm sure pointing to your (or their) mirrors will achieve the same goal. In fact, I would imagine few enough people would think "that crazed luanatic who opened the door of my car and screamed blue murder at me, leaving me fearing for my personal safety, made some good points". They are more likely to curse you, consider you a nutjob and make a mental note to lock the car door when they are driving in future.

What if , what if , what if ??. Thats the same attitude that too many Irish have and where did it get us, lying over a barrel getting it up the ass from our beloved government, thats where .

All I asked was if you would be brave enough to take the same actions under all circumstances. If you are selectively choosing who to lose the head at and who to be more polite towards, it suggests that you are probably picking on softer targets. Also I don't see where the government comes into it - unless of course you know this man was from the government and was either trying to insert something in your ass or was the sole individual responsible for high insurance rates for motorcyclists or the disproportionately high number of motorcycle deaths on the road?

I paid enough for my bike, insurance and gear and I'm certainly not going to be run off the road by some f**ker that can't (or couldn't be bothered to) use his mirrors.

I never said it wasn't annoying. I never said it wasn't dangerous. I never said the driver in question hasn't got some lessons to learn. It doesn't mean you have to teach them to him. How many steps are there between opening the door and screaming at them and actually pulling the poor sod out of the car and beating him to a pulp.

We all know drivers never think to look in their wing mirror for bikers. We all now they don't observe whats around them, particularly in their blind spot, often enough. As a result, we know to expect it, we deal with it all multiple times every day and are prepared for the unexpected - we shouldn't need to be but that's life on 2 wheels. In any case - you said you saw it, took evasive action and thankfully the worst case scenario didn't occur. Why do you need to do any more than a simple gesture to let the guy know there are road users on 2 wheels knocking about and that he should keep an eye out for them?

KTRIC

stipey wrote:

How many steps are there between opening the door and screaming at them and actually pulling the poor sod out of the car and beating him to a pulp.

What actually stops us from doing that is intelligence, stupid retards don't know when to stop when they get angry and loose the head. I know when to stop.

The main point I would like to get across is that the car drivers are not being educated to respect bike drivers on the roads. Its all well and good telling them that they can't use their phones and drink, but what about the other road users that are allot more vulnerable.

Motorbikes have were around in one shape or form for nearly 100 years before the car was even conceived but yet bikers are treated like second class citizens on the roads in Ireland.

My point about the Government and us taking it up the ass from them is that are doing nothing to remedy this situation. So thats why I think re-educating one person is better than doing nothing at all.

stipey

The main point I would like to get across is that the car drivers are not being educated to respect bike drivers on the roads.

If I was driving a car I sure as hell wouldn't respect somebody who opened my door to have a go at me. This brings me back to my original point about why we have such a bad rep among other motorists. Last night I let a guy know he had no lights on and let a couple of people out from side junctions. Which events are more likely to be told and retold in pubs over the weekend?

I think re-educating one person is better than doing nothing at all.

By all means make your point and highlight to the driver that his lack of observation could have killed you.

But do you really think your approach was more effective than a quick "think about what you're doing", "wake up" or "look where you're going" gesture? As I said "I would imagine few enough people would think "that crazed luanatic who opened the door of my car and screamed blue murder at me, leaving me fearing for my personal safety, made some good points". They are more likely to curse you, consider you a nutjob and make a mental note to lock the car door when they are driving in future."

Garibaldi

stipey wrote:

If I was driving a car I sure as hell wouldn't respect somebody who opened my door to have a go at me. This brings me back to my original point about why we have such a bad rep among other motorists. Last night I let a guy know he had no lights on and let a couple of people out from side junctions. Which events are more likely to be told and retold in pubs over the weekend?

Just curious, but what's the message you're trying to convey here? It sounds like "being nice is ignored, but not being nice is remembered". Whilst there might be some pub-bravado at the time of the re-telling, I don't think that necessarily translates to the altogether different situation when driving (as long as it's not early the next morning ). If somebody remembers that bad things happen when they're stupid, then that can't be terrible, can it?

stipey wrote:

By all means make your point and highlight to the driver that his lack of observation could have killed you.

But do you really think your approach was more effective than a quick "think about what you're doing", "wake up" or "look where you're going" gesture? As I said "I would imagine few enough people would think "that crazed luanatic who opened the door of my car and screamed blue murder at me, leaving me fearing for my personal safety, made some good points". They are more likely to curse you, consider you a nutjob and make a mental note to lock the car door when they are driving in future."

In fairness, I'd say his approach actually *is* more effective. If you're all nicey-nicey, as I indicated above, you're ignored. God knows I've tried to be nice to these gob****es in the past, and try to show them the errors of their ways, but they (regardless of how well presented or what gender they are) almost always just produce the finger, mouth a few obscenities, and off we all go, feeling the world is a wonderful place where everyone gets along.

Truth is, a great many drivers could use one of those shiny new Boot Camp ideas that FG propose for ASBO types. But with more driving.

stipey

Just curious, but what's the message you're trying to convey here? It sounds like "being nice is ignored, but not being nice is remembered". Whilst there might be some pub-bravado at the time of the re-telling, I don't think that necessarily translates to the altogether different situation when driving (as long as it's not early the next morning ).

My thoughts are that the OP was completely OTT in his reaction. The pub conversations I was talking about are the ones where the car driving gob****e will tell his car driving gob****e friends about the cnut biker who opened his car door and threw a wobbly at him. His gob****e car driving friends will then begin to think all bikers are cnuts and treat us with more contempt than they already do.

If somebody remembers that bad things happen when they're stupid, then that can't be terrible, can it?

So we should take the next step, pull them from the car and beat it off the road surface a few times? Can we do something a bit more bad just to make sure the message sticks? I know lets kill a puppy too.

Beep at them, gesture angrily, if they roll the window down to have a go, by all means give as good as you get.

Getting off the bike to open the guys door and roar obscenities at him is an act of thuggery. Nobody died, nobody fairing is scratched - its over reacting and its road rage.

KTRIC

stipey wrote:

I know lets kill a puppy too.
.

I can just see it now, some biker gets cut off and to get back at the cager he whips out a puppy and strangles it. Crude but effective


Now I just need a puppy mounting bracket for my ER6 :rolleyes: .

Garibaldi

stipey wrote:

My thoughts are that the OP was completely OTT in his reaction. The pub conversations I was talking about are the ones where the car driving gob****e will tell his car driving gob****e friends about the cnut biker who opened his car door and threw a wobbly at him. His gob****e car driving friends will then begin to think all bikers are cnuts and treat us with more contempt than they already do.

They already think we're the worst so (bikers seem to suffer with some sort of ASBO stigma in this country, but not on Continental Europe - damn their culture and cafe bars!), unless you mean they're now going to actively start aiming for us (not that they're a million miles away from doing that, as it is) what's your point? An OTT reaction would be to drag someone from their car and hang them over a sacrificial fire in which their little Spaniel pups (with the cutest brown eyes) were squealing as their cooked flesh fell from their bones, but giving an idiot an ear-bashing doesn't seem so bad to me.

stipey wrote:

So we should take the next step, pull them from the car and beat it off the road surface a few times? Can we do something a bit more bad just to make sure the message sticks? I know lets kill a puppy too.

Beep at them, gesture angrily, if they roll the window down to have a go, by all means give as good as you get.

Getting off the bike to open the guys door and roar obscenities at him is an act of thuggery. Nobody died, nobody fairing is scratched - its over reacting and its road rage.

Where did he say he roared obscenities at the driver? Many people can shout without resorting to obscenities. Just because it seems to be the norm, these days, doesn't automatically make it so. KTric could be a poet laureate for all I know. Then again, he could be a foul-mouthed thug. Anyway, it's not always possible to have a quiet exchange of ideas when you're already minced under some gob****es vehicle.

stipey

Where did he say he roared obscenities at the driver?

Because opening the drivers door and roaring at him without using obscenities is fine?

Anyway, it's not always possible to have a quiet exchange of ideas when you're already minced under some gob****es vehicle.

Which is why i think its over the top - nobody was hurt, or scratched, or bruised.

Garibaldi

stipey wrote:

Because opening the drivers door and roaring at him without using obscenities is fine?

I don't think he actually got off the bike, so it's not quite as threatening a stance as you're making out. Sure, there's all sorts of arguments about "personal space" blah blah but, as you say, no-one was hurt in either incident, so let's not overreact.

stipey wrote:

Which is why i think its over the top - nobody was hurt, or scratched, or bruised.

But the point is to try and inform someone that their actions could have led to someone being hurt, scratched, or bruised, before it actually happens. If he *had* been hurt, it would already be too late.

stipey

But the point is to try and inform someone that their actions could have led to someone being hurt, scratched, or bruised, before it actually happens.

So, in effect letting the guy know to be more observant?

Perhaps then you might explain why you don't feel this gesture* (obviously without the simpleton expression) is sufficient?


* Note: he's not flipping the V.

Why should you need to invade the guys personal space and intimidate him?

And before you suggest that I don't know if it was intimadting or not: he opened the guys door and...

Needless to say I f**king lost it

murphaph

Stipey, the guy in question invaded the OPs personal space long before it was reciprocated! I'm sick of ignorant a$$holes blocking me, driving at the white line and so on. It gets tedious.

bbbbb

Yes, I agree with the following points made above.

Red Mist
Don't lose the cool, it only makes you more vunerable or makes you do something stupid 500m down the road. Plus it gives bikers a bad name.

Use the horn
Despite what most other road users seem to think, using the horn is to alert other road users of your presence in potential hazardous situations. It does actually work (just a short toot, no need to blast them out of it), and in the event of an accident it is something that Guards & insurance co.s will askabout.

Hotblack Desiato

Agree totally bbbb, air horns should be mandatory on bikes
Mine prevent all sorts of near misses before they happen.

It always amazes me when I see one car totally cut up and nearly hit another, and the second one doesn't so much as toot ?!? Some people are waay too passive for their own good.

On confrontations with car drivers. I used to do this a good bit until eventually I realised that
-it's pointless
-can get you into trouble if you lose the head
-in the end all it does is make you more angry and less safe for the rest of your ride, and sometimes for days after.
-better riding (training) lets you see and avoid most of these things before they happen.

Anyway if you want to get your point across it works better in a non-aggressive manner (but if I'm met with abuse I'll give as good as I get.)

A few years ago some cager crossed onto the wrong side of the road to skip a queue and nearly hit me, totally in the wrong and I just managed to avoid him although I skidded a bit (it was wet). U-turn and confronted him at the lights. He could have just said sorry, but said that I should have just got out of his way! Well my fuse was already smouldering but that just lit it good and proper. End result, the guards would do nothing against his dangerous driving (he had a passenger as witness, I didn't) but did force me to pay for his broken mirror. :mad:

When they're in the wrong, you have the moral high ground -but if you lose the head then you're the bad guy - so don't let the anger take over.

madrab

stipey wrote:

So, in effect letting the guy know to be more observant?

Perhaps then you might explain why you don't feel this gesture* (obviously without the simpleton expression) is sufficient?


* Note: he's not flipping the V.

Why should you need to invade the guys personal space and intimidate him?

And before you suggest that I don't know if it was intimadting or not: he opened the guys door and...

The bastid robbed my gloves!

Garibaldi

stipey wrote:

Perhaps then you might explain why you don't feel this gesture* (obviously without the simpleton expression) is sufficient?

That's not a simpleton expression, you filthy racist!!! :eek:



Anyway, what if Mr. Cager sees you give that hand signal, thinks that you *are* flipping the V, loses it, hops out of car, pulls you off the bike and starts kicking? After all, he's had a rough day at the coalface in the office, and the stress of the commute has pushed him to the edge. Now, obviously, if you're wearing the proper gear, it'd only tickle, but that kind of situation is just as likely as your average biker doing the same to a cager.

As a matter of interest, has anyone heard of anything like any of the pulling-out-and-kicking (sounds like a schoolyard fight) scenarios here actually happening? Opening doors and stating, in a loud voice, "See here, my good man, you don't appear to be in complete control of your horseless carriage!" doesn't count.

stipey

Just a few quick things...

thinks that you *are* flipping the V....

1. It is very easy to make this gesture without giving that impression (i.e. by keeping your hand more or less parallell to the ground). Its the most appropriate pic i could find on the web at short notice - it just happens that the guys/girls head is facing down so in the given angle it could be misconstrued. I'm sure you are intelligent enough to get the gist of what was meant.

...loses it, hops out of car, pulls you off the bike and starts kicking?

2. I would imagine if somebody is short tempered enough to take such action if they though you were flipping the V, surely they would be even more inclined to do so once you do something that could be percieved as a direct threat (such as opening their car door and flipping the lid).


3. Any chance that you could actually answer my question as to why you don't feel the discussed gesture is sufficent to get the "watch where you are going and whats around you" message across and why you think the OP needed to go that little bit further?


Anyway, I'm reminded of the quote that appears on many message boards about arguing on the internet.... We could discuss this all day. I'm sure you won't change your opinion that it was perfectly acceptable any more than I change mine that it was over the top and unnecessary - so I'm bowing out of this thread

Garibaldi

You're bowing out?? But, but, don't you want to see my beautifully crafted answers?

1: Indeed, but not everyone is and, given that fact, what I suggested is perfectly possible.

2: Quite right, but that doesn't make what I said any less valid.

3: See point 1, and I never said that he "needed to go that little bit further", I just don't see it as being as big a deal as you and, undoubtedly, some others do.

And who's arguing? I was just having a chat between coffee breaks. Still, neither of us is putting forward a convincing argument (mainly, I suppose, because I really don't care, and I'm just avoiding doing some real work cos I'm off on holliers next week), so let's not be any more We Todd Did, and get back to the coffee. :goestoshakeStipeyshandbutusestheopportunitytohaulhimoffhisbikeandworkoutsomeangermanagementissues:

:D