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the not so 'civil' servant

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  • 18-11-2006 12:28pm
    #1
    livia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 36 ✭


    my brother gave up work (self employment) to look after our sick Dad.He applied for Carers Allowance ,was turned down,(they didnt think Dad was sick enough, he died,is dead sick enough?) appealed and was going through that when Dad died.Having nothing to live on and grieving went up to the Dole office, explained the situation to 'lady' at the counter,was told by same 'lady' Dads death wasnt her problem,that our Dad could'nt be that bad if brother couldnt get Carers allowance,probaly would'nt get dole as he had'nt been actively looking for work.Our Dads died two weeks ago.Is this what this country has become,?unfeeling, rude,ect?


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    #2
    Firetrap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,442 ✭✭✭Firetrap


    It never ceases to amaze me the way some people in jobs like that behave at times. You'd swear it was money coming out of their own pockets.

    You're right though - this country has become unfeeling. Apart from the treatment carers get, just look at how complacent the authorities have been when dealing with nursing homes (Leas Cross et al)


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    #3
    eigrod
    Registered Users Posts: 7,594 ✭✭✭eigrod


    The Dept of Social & Family Affairs have a Customer Charter. It might be an idea to bring this complaint to their attention using that Charter.

    Details at : http://www.welfare.ie/publications/cust_char_04_07.html


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    #4
    Rock Climber
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,034 ✭✭✭Rock Climber


    Moved to After Hours- because its not politics and its not a disability subject as such but it is a general issue.


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    #5
    Sad Professor
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,671 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sad Professor


    I'm very sorry for your loss, livia.

    It's sad what a cold, unfeeling place this country is becoming. It seems to be the price of our economic success. Don't waste your energy complaining, just forget about people like that, they aren't worth it.


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    #6
    stepbar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,123 ✭✭✭stepbar


    Cut through the incompetency, go to the office manager. Some civil servants frustrate the hell out of me, cause if they were out in the real world their sorry ass would be out on the street. I worked in a dole office one summer and it was an experience i'll tell ya. I would persue this all the way if anything to prove a point, because from what your saying it sounds ridiculous that anyone could do that. My advise would be to get names etc and take this all the way legal and otherwise.


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    #7
    Darragh29
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,097 ✭✭✭Darragh29


    eigrod wrote:
    The Dept of Social & Family Affairs have a Customer Charter. It might be an idea to bring this complaint to their attention using that Charter.

    Details at : http://www.welfare.ie/publications/cust_char_04_07.html

    Firstly, as per the charter referred to above, you are entitled to insist upon your business being discussed in a private interview room if you so wish and this is what I'd be asking for first. Then I'd put in a written complaint regarding the hostility you experienced from that bitch and I'd be dealing directly with a manager at this stage and nobody else.


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    #8
    Darragh29
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,097 ✭✭✭Darragh29


    Sad Professor wrote:
    I'm very sorry for your loss, livia.

    It's sad what a cold, unfeeling place this country is becoming. It seems to be the price of our economic success. Don't waste your energy complaining, just forget about people like that, they aren't worth it.

    That's bullsh1t. Nothing will ever change if you don't raise a complaint...


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    #9
    Ruu_Old
    Closed Accounts Posts: 36,634 ✭✭✭✭Ruu_Old


    Darragh29 wrote:
    That's bullsh1t. Nothing will ever change if you don't raise a complaint...

    Agreed, sorry for your loss OP. Definitely make a complaint as mentioned above.


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    #10
    Sad Professor
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,671 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sad Professor


    Darragh29 wrote:
    That's bullsh1t. Nothing will ever change if you don't raise a complaint...

    If it was anything else you might be right but the OP just lost their father, surely dealing with their grief is bad enough without the added distraction of making complaints about some insensitive a**hole! It won't make them feel any better.


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    #11
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,218 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Sorry for your loss Livia.
    allie_e17 wrote:
    It never ceases to amaze me the way some people in jobs like that behave at times. You'd swear it was money coming out of their own pockets.
    They have a fixed set of rules to apply - if they didn't, and gave out money to anyone they felt sorry for, perhaps you would be complaining about 'waste of taxpayer's money'.

    The average front line person in a dole office has basically no discretion at all - either you meet their criteria for a claim or you don't. If you don't, it's more or less expected that you'll appeal and then your case will be decided by someone more senior who actually has some discretion.

    That's no excuse for rudeness especially towards someone going through a very difficult time.

    Unfortunately rudeness goes both ways and the people who work in dole offices have a difficult job in that they face a lot of abuse and in some cases even intimidation (not for a moment suggesting that either is the case here.) The people who actually give a damn about the public and their problems are the ones who, perhaps, are least likely to be able to deal with the pressure long-term and leave or transfer away.
    You're right though - this country has become unfeeling. Apart from the treatment carers get, just look at how complacent the authorities have been when dealing with nursing homes (Leas Cross et al)
    Off-topic but the blame here lies with the old, incompetent, politician-riddled health board system.
    The HSE is far from perfect but imho they are starting to improve things.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #12
    Darragh29
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,097 ✭✭✭Darragh29


    Sad Professor wrote:
    If it was anything else you might be right but the OP just lost their father, surely dealing with their grief is bad enough without the added distraction of making complaints about some insensitive a**hole! It won't make them feel any better.

    The fact that the OP is being treated like this when he/she is dealing with the death of a loved one is all the more reason to make a complaint ffs!


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    #13
    Sad Professor
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,671 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sad Professor


    Darragh29 wrote:
    The fact that the OP is being treated like this when he/she is dealing with the death of a loved one is all the more reason to make a complaint ffs!

    I agree. Its just I know someone who made far more serious complaints against nurses and doctors after the death of a loved one and it dragged on forever and made the grieving harder for them. This isn't the same thing but its still just not worth it IMO.


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    #14
    Darragh29
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,097 ✭✭✭Darragh29


    Sad Professor wrote:
    I agree. Its just I know someone who made far more serious complaints against nurses and doctors after the death of a loved one and it dragged on forever and made the grieving harder for them. This isn't the same thing but its still just not worth it IMO.

    If this happened me, I would tell the woman to her face in front of all her co-workers that I thought she was an utter heartless bitch. I'd explain to her that I had just lost a parent and that her attitude is an absolute holy fu*king disgrace and she should be deeply ashamed of her behaviour, that she cannot do her job and is nothing but a fu*king pathethic ignorant hound that should be fu*ked out of the civil service. I'd give her such an almighty dressing down in front of everyone she works with that she wouldn't sleep peacefully for a week. By the time I'd have finished telling her what I thought of her she'd regret ever having seen me coming in the queue....


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    #15
    Sad Professor
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,671 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sad Professor


    lol, Darragh29, and you'd be absolutely right. I've a terrible temper and would react the same way. I was probably too dismissive when I said the OP should forget about it, if it was me I'd be furious too at being treated like that.


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    #16
    Darragh29
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,097 ✭✭✭Darragh29


    Sad Professor wrote:
    lol, Darragh29, and you'd be absolutely right. I've a terrible temper and would react the same way. I was probably too dismissive when I said the OP should forget about it, if it was me I'd be furious too at being treated like that.

    She'd fu*kin regret the day she took a job with the civil service if she treated me like that, I'd give her the Alex Ferguson hairdryer effect and I wouldn't stop until she was in fu*kin tears sobbing at her desk! I go out of my way to be polite and friendly to everyone I meet so I tend to take it personally when I see ignornace coming at me! I'd be like Bishop Brennan kicking down the door of the parochial house on Craggy Island! :mad: :eek: :mad:


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    #17
    Trinity
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,662 ✭✭✭Trinity


    Livia tell him to make a complaint.

    I'm a civil servant and i would never treat anyone like that. But the person he got was obviously a cow and there are plenty of them out there in every profession.

    I have had the displeasure of having to deal with them myself on a personal level and some were nice and some were not so nice. I myself have been shouted at, abused, called names by members of the public and unfortunately it comes with the job sometimes whether it should or not. But i still treat everyone with the same courtesy and civility,

    I think letting it go is a mistake. If everyone has that attitude then nothing will ever be done to change it.

    We have customer service charters and without feedback they are useless. Especially negative feedback.

    I would though complain about her attitude and not the fact that she turned him down for his claim. Thats actually not up to her at all and they may feel he is just annoyed over that.

    Courtesy and manners should be a must for anyone dealing with members of the public.


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    #18
    peasant
    Registered Users Posts: 17,819 ✭✭✭✭peasant


    If this happened to me I would dispense with the formalities of complaints forms and charters and all that.

    Surely your brother must be entitled to something. Either carer's allowance / unemployment benefit or both. Sticking to the official channels it will probably take months and millions of duplicate and triplicate forms to sort this. Ring Joe Duffy / Gerry Ryan ...their publicity will sort it out for you in double time.


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    #19
    Esel
    Registered Users Posts: 22,056 ✭✭✭✭Esel


    I think there is a Community Welfare Officer that your brother can access through the HSE. They can often help with money in cases like this.

    Is your brother able to resume his work?

    Not your ornery onager



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    #20
    FranknFurter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,215 ✭✭✭FranknFurter


    Sorry for your loss livia.

    That attitude is completely unaccecptable. And over the years I have seen it time and time again.
    Given your brothers circumstances, I would highly recommend a visit to your local CIC (Citzens Information Center), most people dont know but they have case workers employed there who can take on your case and do a lot of the work for you as regards appealing. And often the outcome is positive.

    If you are in Dublin, I recommend visiting the CIC in Dublin 22. Clondalkin, (Luke Cullen House, opposite the Mill shopping center). The case worker there has a long history of dealing with such cases as yours and is one of the best I have ever met.
    (She has a lot of personal as well as professional experience in the areas of Social Welfare and also Long term illness.)

    Hope it all works out,

    B


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    #21
    livia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 36 ✭livia


    Thanks to everyone,kind thoughts and advice much appreciated.


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    #22
    DublinEvents
    Closed Accounts Posts: 209 ✭✭DublinEvents


    I'm really sorry to hear about your loss. How did they determine your dad wasn't in a serious enough condition anyway? This is fraud in my opinion. The fact your dad tragically died is proof that their diagnosis of your father's condition was plain wrong. It's quite possible he was misdiagnosed on purpose so they could save themselves some cash/paperwork etc. There has to be a higher authority that you can appeal to against these insensitive and irresponsible idiots.


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