M50 works

Idbatterim

Is there a reason why work on the m50 isnt 24 hours? i can understand not every road project needs to be 24h but this is so critical surely it should be implemented, no? Also why arent the Government throwing open the westlink barriers, they have this option, they just have to compensate ntr. I think i read it would cost the Gov E20 million per annum, a large sum on its own but in the scheme of things a pittance, through lost productivity, stress, accidents, damage to environment, less familty time etc etc etc etc etc! Surely they should just open the damn thing, could you imagine the goodwill it would generate for the election! so many questions, so little logic!

Ghost Train

I cant believe it's going to take till 2008 to finish the upgrade seems very slow, says on the m50 website that the west link toll will be replaced with barrier free tolling, wonder how that will work. The new port tunnel doesn't look great either, will trucks have to cross lanes of traffic to use it or hows it going to work, getting from the m50 to the tunnel looks like it going to be messy

OTK

What are the working hours? I drove past before 5am the other morning and there were people working in the driving rain.

Opening the barriers would not reduce m50 driving times. It would reduce the cost of driving on the m50 and thus encourage more people to use it. Queues would not happen at the barrier but at the exits and entries. Any shortlived speed up would be taken up by people switching to the m50 from other routes.

Westlink revenues are of the order of 65m per year (most going to the govt). Not a pittance when there would be zero benefit.

Idbatterim

i agree with some of your points OTK, the m50 and interchages have to be completely free flowing otherwise not much will change...

Seth Brundle

OTK wrote:

Opening the barriers would not reduce m50 driving times. It would reduce the cost of driving on the m50 and thus encourage more people to use it. Queues would not happen at the barrier but at the exits and entries. Any shortlived speed up would be taken up by people switching to the m50 from other routes.

Correct me if Im wrong but isnt this pure speculation?

ardmacha

Now that the government is going to own the toll bridge they should ensure a clear benefit for using electronic tolls, with all tag types usable. A good plan would be €1 with tag and €2 with cash. This wouldn't attract more traffic, but would speed up the bridge itself.

sinbadfury

The reason why it will take so long to complete is because there is no international golfing event to hold a timetable to!!!

How fast was that N7 done for the Cup?

Farce is the word, 24 hr builds are normal in any other country for major infrastructure.

Everyone in the country has a pain in the ass with regard to infrastructure projects, especially roads...caused by a) spending huge amounts of time in the car seat b) the govt giving us a hammering from behind!

Wishbone Ash

sinbadfury wrote:

The reason why it will take so long to complete is because there is no international golfing event to hold a timetable to!!!

How fast was that N7 done for the Cup?

They've been at the N7 for over 30 years!

OTK

kbannon wrote:

Correct me if Im wrong but isnt this pure speculation?

Depending on the type of service, when you charge less for something, more people tend to show up to buy it. Charge €3 for pints when you've previously charged €5 and more customers show up. So would you expect customer numbers to increase or decrease if the cost of crossing the Westlink changed from €1.80 to €0?

Many junctions already suffer peak hour delays so it is reasonable to expect that these delays would increase if extra drivers are attracted by a reduced toll.

The M50 upgrade project is about increasing the number of people who can use the road, not reducing journey times during peak hours. When this round of road upgrades complete, you will have the pleasure of seeing another lane of frozen traffic. You can then vote for politicians who promise the next multi-billion euro extra lane.

Victor

Idbatterim wrote:

Is there a reason why work on the m50 isnt 24 hours?

Money. It costs more to get people to work at night. Also having people work at night doesn't make the concrete set any quicker.

impr0v

Another factor is local resident objection.

I've spoken to engineers working for the contractor who've said that they are already dealing with sustained campaigns by local residents in the Palmerstown area against the extent of their current working hours and the noise generated by rock-breaking etc. While such campaigns may not be successful, even negotiating and dealing which groups and/or individuals, which is a contractual obligation, can be quite time consuming.

I believe that in Spain, for example, the individual has less recourse to law to protect their rights in such circumstances, whereas our system is relatively citizen-friendly.

While it may be easy to condemn such people as NIMBY-ites, I'm sure there aren't many here who would willingly put up with machine reversing beepers and rock-breaking during the night, in close proximity to their homes, purely because it's for the greater good.

Idbatterim

Nowhere on the M50 where the current work is going on are homes very close to houses, after the median beside the hard shoulder there is the boundary wall then the garden and then peoples house, there is no way whatever noise came thorugh those double glazed windows would keep you awake, and if your watching telly, chatting or is any noise whatsoever in the house, i just cant imagine it having any impact. A better balance needs to be struck between getting the work done and causing as little inconvenience as possible, while getting it delivered in a easonable time frame.

Traffic

http://www.m50.ie/pages/schedule-2006-11-Nov.htm

A lot of the work listed here is taking place at nightime

Zoney

Idbatterim wrote:

Nowhere on the M50 where the current work is going on are homes very close to houses, after the median beside the hard shoulder there is the boundary wall then the garden and then peoples house, there is no way whatever noise came thorugh those double glazed windows would keep you awake, and if your watching telly, chatting or is any noise whatsoever in the house, i just cant imagine it having any impact.

This is just flat out wrong. As already mentioned, at Palmerstown there is one such situation. The entire N4/M50 interchange is situated right next to houses on the southeast corner of the junction (you can see this even on the diagram on the M50 upgrade website).

Nevermind that sound carries, especially at night. As far as I know, even the M50 doesn't have much in the way of noise barriers even for the sound of traffic. There was an article recently about this; with EU legislation there will probably have to be quite extensive installation of noise barriers on some of our older urban high capacity routes. Quite rightly so, and as previously mentioned, it's all very well to give out about NIMBYism, but there are situations that are not right to impose on the individual for the "greater good". If you go down that road (ignore individual rights), you just end up treading on everyone (or at least a large amount of the population).

Finally; any recent house, or one that's been sensibly upgraded, has ventilation (to avoid buildup of carbon monoxide, radon gas, and to allow in new oxygen), which not only allows air in, but also noise. Nevermind that even double-glazing won't help much for the likes of heavy construction.

Victor

Idbatterim wrote:

Nowhere on the M50 where the current work is going on are homes very close to houses, after the median beside the hard shoulder there is the boundary wall then the garden and then peoples house, there is no way whatever noise came thorugh those double glazed windows would keep you awake,

Double glazed windows doesn't stop the vibration from a rock breaker coming through your foundations.

imeddyhobbs

A lot of work is done on the M50 at night,traffic management do whatever they have to do at night(watchout for changes in traffic flow tomorrow)
The reason not much ground work(if any)is carried out in the dark is for health and safety reasons,the safest way for workers on the site to work in darkness is under floodlights but floodlights on a motorway are a hazzard to traffic so they wont use them

BTW i work in the M50 works,we will have 3 lanes open by xmas between tallaght and ballymount exits!expect major diversions beforehand

Fool 5000

A lot of work is done on the M50 at night,traffic management do whatever they have to do at night(watchout for changes in traffic flow tomorrow)
The reason not much ground work(if any)is carried out in the dark is for health and safety reasons,the safest way for workers on the site to work in darkness is under floodlights but floodlights on a motorway are a hazzard to traffic so they wont use them

BTW i work in the M50 works,we will have 3 lanes open by xmas between tallaght and ballymount exits!expect major diversions beforehand

Between Tallaght and Ballmount!!They are only upgrading between ballymount and the Lucan exits for now?! Arnt they?

darkman2

imeddyhobbs wrote:

BTW i work in the M50 works,we will have 3 lanes open by xmas between tallaght and ballymount exits!

Really?!? Great but the N4 and N7 works look tedious....

fletch

OTK wrote:

Depending on the type of service, when you charge less for something, more people tend to show up to buy it. Charge €3 for pints when you've previously charged €5 and more customers show up. So would you expect customer numbers to increase or decrease if the cost of crossing the Westlink changed from €1.80 to €0?

I can confirm this....I live in Blanchardstown and refuse to pay the toll so use Lucan or Chapelizod to avoid it. However if it were free I would most certainly use the toll bridge.

imeddyhobbs

Fool 5000 wrote:

Between Tallaght and Ballmount!!They are only upgrading between ballymount and the Lucan exits for now?! Arnt they?

yes but 3 lanes are expected to be open from tallaght and ballymount before christmas

imeddyhobbs

darkman2 wrote:

Really?!? Great but the N4 and N7 works look tedious....

Its an impossible site to work on,everybody hates it!!

fletch

Oh just to be careful people. Yesterday heading Northbound, one of the works trucks decided to merge in front of me with about a 50yard gap in front of me (I was doing 60kph). Slammed on the brakes and only just(and I mean just) missed him

CtrlSource

fletch wrote:

Oh just to be careful people. Yesterday heading Northbound, one of the works trucks decided to merge in front of me with about a 50yard gap in front of me (I was doing 60kph). Slammed on the brakes and only just(and I mean just) missed him

Was driving southbound last night at around midnight and workers were laying cones between the J7 (N4) & J9 (N7) and were literally flinging the cones across the single open lane as I approached! They're pretty brave, because even with their high-vis jackets, I found it hard to make them out until I was right upon them. I've also encountered works trucks driving dangerously in recent months, particularly at night.

Although the 60 limit seems very low on less active parts of the works, I think it should be policed more rigorously on other parts of the route, which are very dangerous for high speed driving as lane layout (and even width) keep changing.