Only 15% of 115 gun murders solved since '98

gurramok

From http://www.breakingnews.ie/archives/story.asp?j=236291870&p=z36z9z7xx&n=236292783&archive=11/11/2006

Of 113 (+2 this week) gun murders since '98, only 16 have resulted in a conviction!
Question is even though majority of victims were probably criminals themselves, do you care, would you be concerned about a potential 99 assassins still on the loose?....Do you have confidence in gardai/justice system?

Or will we all have to wear body armour as a fashion accessory and become john wayne's armed to the teeth as society is getting more dangerous?:)

Dyr

Gardai in pile of pants shock! Nation amazed: "sure we thought they were great altogether, we kept getting told they were"

In other news: GRA demand pay rise and more benefits

Binomate

Would that not be because a lot of the gun crime would be gang related? I'd imagine it would be hard to convict a gang member because there would probably be so few gang members willing to testify, no matter who they are testifying against.

joebhoy1916

Binomate wrote:

Would that not be because a lot of the gun crime would be gang related? I'd imagine it would be hard to convict a gang member because there would probably be so few gang members willing to testify, no matter who they are testifying against.

Course people aint going to go to court and testify against them.

Gardai job to catch these people and bring them to justice they shouldn't need people to testify they should be out there catching these people while it happens then they would have weapon and suspect.

Even if someone went to court it's one person's word against the other's.

About time they got a new system in too that's why alot of them get away scanner's very easy to get only about €25 and all you need is a Nokia charger and you hear everything.

Binomate

joebhoy1916 wrote:

they shouldn't need people to testify

I loled.

Victor

gurramok wrote:

would you be concerned about a potential 99 assassins still on the loose

Quite a few of those assassins have themselves been killed.

gurramok

Victor wrote:

Quite a few of those assassins have themselves been killed.

How do you know?...How many?

monkeyfudge

Victor wrote:

Quite a few of those assassins have themselves been killed.

Some while in Garda custody too...

The duck pond in the park next to where I work had a Garda scuba team in it this week looking for a weapons cache actually.

RoundyMooney

Victor wrote:

Quite a few of those assassins have themselves been killed.

Beat me to it.

I certainly won't shed any tears, live by the sword and all that.

My only concern would be for innocent third parties caught up in the crossfire, no pun intended.

TheNog

joebhoy1916 wrote:

Gardai job to catch these people and bring them to justice they shouldn't need people to testify they should be out there catching these people while it happens then they would have weapon and suspect.]

I cannot believe how naive u are in this statement!!!!!!!

[About time they got a new system in too that's why alot of them get away scanner's very easy to get only about €25 and all you need is a Nokia charger and you hear everything.

A new digital radio system for the Gardai was estimated at 100 million euro (for the entire country) and that was 3-5 yrs ago. The government didn't want to spend that much back then. Can u imagine the current estimate is today? Maybe 2-300 million?? do u think the government would want to spend it now?

the old analogue radio system the gardai have now is something like 20-30 yrs old and doesn't work in some parts of our major cities. it is therefore possible to imagine a garda being attacked in some part of dublin and they cannot call for help. The reason I mention Dublin is because there are radio blind spots around Dublin, one such spot is the Phoenix Park and the Garda HQ is there.

Dave!

RoundyMooney wrote:

Beat me to it.

I certainly won't shed any tears, live by the sword and all that.

My only concern would be for innocent third parties caught up in the crossfire, no pun intended.

Indeed, wasn't there some kid shot in Limerick a couple of weeks ago?

seamus

In this country, it's quite rare for someone to be murdered through random gun violence. Most of it is gang or drug related. Because of this, it's next to impossible to obtain evidence, leads or other information because nobody is willing to speak up.

Eoin

seamus wrote:

In this country, it's quite rare for someone to be murdered through random gun violence. Most of it is gang or drug related. Because of this, it's next to impossible to obtain evidence, leads or other information because nobody is willing to speak up.

Exactly - it even says so in the article: "the vast majority of which were gangland-style killings".

Saying that only 15% of the murders were "solved" is quite misleading. The article said that there only 15% ended in convictions; there's a big difference.

Steyr

gurramok wrote:

Do you have confidence in gardai/justice system?

I have total faith in them, do you honestly believe scumbags are going to go to go to the Gardai? Come on like the majority of these murders are done by gangs you dont need to be Einstein to know that.

Savman

The title of that article is as follows:

Labour: No convictions in 85% of Irish gangland murders

Seems simple logic if you're NOT involved in gangland dealings chances are you'll NOT be shot unless you're especially unlucky.

scojones

I wonder what percentage of CRIME is solved.

stipey

I wouldn't worry about it - don't you know its like the last sting of a dying wasp. :rolleyes:

aidan24326

Yeah it says that only 15% of gangland killings ended in a conviction. Of the other 85% of killings, it's likely the gardai know who the perpetrators were in many of those incidents, but having the hard evidence/witnesses etc. necessary to get a conviction in court is much more difficult among gangland circles where witnesses would fear for their safety (with very good reason) and a general fear of revenge killings and retribution leads to alot of blind eyes and deaf ears.

To put it in perspective, it is difficult enough to make a murder conviction stick in court even in 'normal' (not gangland) killings where the prosecution case has to be meticulously pieced together, as the onus of proof is on them. That's why some people get reduced to manslaughter on plea bargaining, even though their crime might, in some cases, be more accurately described as murder.

It is hard to nail a murder conviction in this country, and even more so when dealing with gangs where fear and secrecy are the order of the day. Also I would agree Victor that some of these gangland assassins are probably pushing up daises now themselves, tit for tat and all that. And good riddance too.

sjones wrote:

I wonder what percentage of CRIME is solved.

They sometimes release figures on the percentage of crime that is solved. But I'm not sure if I'd pay too much heed to these stats tbh, especially for less serious crime. They might give a rough guide but it's easy to see how the numbers could be 'massaged' a bit if need be. Damn lies, statistics and all that.

seamus

sjones wrote:

I wonder what percentage of CRIME is solved.

There's a big difference between the amount of crime which is technically *solved* and the amount of crimes for which a criminal conviction is actuallu obtained. A big reason why Garda morale is so low, are the number of hoops needed to be jumped through to even start legal proceedings, and the utter frustration at knowing (most of the time) who committed a crime, but being unable to bring charges against them.

gurramok

Steyr wrote:

I have total faith in them, do you honestly believe scumbags are going to go to go to the Gardai? Come on like the majority of these murders are done by gangs you dont need to be Einstein to know that.

Err, i always thought that the authorities(gardai etc) should come after the scumbags and not let them get away with it?
Yes, and innocents have been caught up in this, kid in limerick as said previously, the coolock murder of a mother earlier this year, a mother of two assasinated in the same house as her children in Swords today.
So if the majority of killings have been carried out by gangs and probably are, shouldn't they be apprehended and a blind eye not turned on them espcially as innocents get hurt and killed?

Steyr

what i meant is if they get shot at they ( scum ) are hardly gonna say to the 5.0 who hit them up.

Thrill

gurramok wrote:

So if the majority of killings have been carried out by gangs and probably are, shouldn't they be apprehended and a blind eye not turned on them especially as innocents get hurt and killed?

I would be the first to turn a blind eye if i thought this kind of power would not be abused. It worked well in communist Russia and the china of today where they ended up in a gulag or get a bullet in the back of the head, unfortunately innocent people in these kind of countries end up meeting the same fate.
Gangland and drug dealing scum should be picked up off our streets and locked away for good, imo, and if we never hear about it, so much the better.

\m/_(>_<)_\m/

joebhoy1916 wrote:

Course people aint going to go to court and testify against them.

Gardai job to catch these people and bring them to justice they shouldn't need people to testify they should be out there catching these people while it happens then they would have weapon and suspect.

Even if someone went to court it's one person's word against the other's.

very true.... are the guards waiting for the public to solve the murders for them.

seamus

\m/_(>_<)_\m/ wrote:

very true.... are the guards waiting for the public to solve the murders for them.

You do realise how utterly next to impossible it is to locate any evidence or suspects *without* the public's help? Think about that shooting on the Northside last week. If the Gardai didn't/couldn't rely on the public, how it God's name do you think they'd get any leads? They wouldn't know the numberplate on the back of the bike. They wouldn't even know that the guys drove up on a bike and shot him. Ballastic evidence is useless for tracking the guy down, because whatever weapon he had likely entered the country illegally, so no-one knows it exists.

So what else do you expect them to do but ask the public for help?

\m/_(>_<)_\m/

seamus wrote:

You do realise how utterly next to impossible it is to locate any evidence or suspects *without* the public's help?

only in Ireland
that's only because the boys in blue are useless.

gurramok

seamus wrote:

So what else do you expect them to do but ask the public for help?

So if the public can't help for very valid reasons like fear of their lives, what does that say for the justice system which cannot protect the public?