Slightly Confusing hand 1/2 live

phantom_lord · 16-11-2006 5:14pm #1

I've something like 6/700

Villain has about 300. Chinese guy that's just sat down, haven't seen him before.

Folded around to me on the button, I look down at the ladies at pump it to the max of seven.

sb folds, bb makes it 30. I consider 3 betting but his stack size put me off, otherwise I'd be happy enough to shove. So I just call. 3-betting is prob better y/n?

Pot~ 61

Flop:

A84 rainbow.

bb bets 20. I pump it to 60 expecting a fold. bb dwells before calling

turn is a blank.

he checks. I check?

River is a k.

He checks, I check behind.

Anyone bet the turn?

Silver-Tiger · 16-11-2006 5:29pm

i bet the turn and fold to a push.

What hands were turned over
Him JJ u win or
Him AJ u lose??

bops · 16-11-2006 5:34pm

A rag or JJ

i'd check it down anyway

phantom_lord · 16-11-2006 5:36pm

What about the flop bet?

bops · 16-11-2006 5:41pm

phantom_lord wrote:

What about the flop bet?

its one of those bets - either he has a monster or sfa

i would have reraised too to see where u stood

...u didn't really get an answer tho

phantom_lord · 16-11-2006 5:45pm

I wasn't reraising for that reason, I thought he bet was very weak and thought I could pick up the pot here. Probably should have been bigger.

bops · 16-11-2006 5:48pm

please dont tell me he had KQ or some ****e like that??

bops · 16-11-2006 5:50pm

just an (non racist) observation but lots of those chineese guys fall in love with KQ KJ and QJ - me thinks they like pictures!!

...just imo and experience...

bops · 16-11-2006 5:53pm

phantom_lord wrote:

Probably should have been bigger.

you bet big enough - bet should only be called by an ace plus

LuckyLloyd · 16-11-2006 5:57pm

This post has been deleted.

Hectorjelly · 16-11-2006 6:15pm

this thread is totally useless without some type of read on BB. The thinking throughout it and in the replies is weird as well. Preflop if he is a normal player he either has you beat, or he has an ace in his hand. (small chance of a lower pair or KQ, but not much IMO). Anyway the ace flops, his range now destroys you; and you raise him! It doesnt matter how mentally committed to the hand you are or not this is terrible

cardshark202 · 16-11-2006 6:31pm

Yeah this confuses me too. Just call him down generally. I really don't understand the flop raise. EDIT or fold flop but I call a weak lead like that and see what he does on the turn most of the time. If it goes check, check on turn and he checks a blank river there may be some value in betting the river.

phantom_lord · 16-11-2006 7:07pm

Hectorjelly wrote:

this thread is totally useless without some type of read on BB. The thinking throughout it and in the replies is weird as well. Preflop if he is a normal player he either has you beat, or he has an ace in his hand. (small chance of a lower pair or KQ, but not much IMO). Anyway the ace flops, his range now destroys you; and you raise him! It doesnt matter how mentally committed to the hand you are or not this is terrible

He's not a normal player, he's a loose typical fitz player, he range is most likely fairly wide here, and there's a large chance of a lower pp. The ace flops and he bets twenty into a sixty yoyos pot, I doubt he has an ace in his hand. And his range certainly doesn't destroy me, I'm not committed to this hand at all, if he had made a larger flop bet, or put in a decent bet on the turn I would have dropped it. His weak bet suggests I'm ahead, but his call (after a long dwell up) throws me off and I end up checking it down,.

Ste05 · 16-11-2006 8:07pm

Raising the flop is a bit mad TBH, just call him down.

valor · 16-11-2006 8:39pm

Raising the flop is very bad

Ste05 · 16-11-2006 9:20pm

Basically ye, why don't you let him bluff again on the turn. All he'll normally call you with is a hand that beats you.

EDIT: OK, that looks a bit mad, there was a post above asking whether the flop bet was really that bad, it seems to have gone now...

phantom_lord · 16-11-2006 9:22pm

True.

Hectorjelly · 16-11-2006 11:33pm

the typical fitz player does not reraise with nothing. They call with nothing, not raise with it. On the flop the board is A84, do you think any hand that QQ is ahead of (that reraised preflop) can call a raise? Are you raising the flop because you think your QQ is good? Or are you specifically trying to get KK to fold? I dont understand your thinking or your play at all. Im not sure why you keep saying you arent mentally committed to the hand. The fact it the only possible advantage that raising the flop might have is to get KK to fold.

a good rule of thumb might be, if bops is the only person who thinks what you did made sense in a hand, it probably didnt!

phantom_lord · 17-11-2006 8:08am

Hectorjelly wrote:

the typical fitz player does not reraise with nothing. They call with nothing, not raise with it. On the flop the board is A84, do you think any hand that QQ is ahead of (that reraised preflop) can call a raise? Are you raising the flop because you think your QQ is good? Or are you specifically trying to get KK to fold? I dont understand your thinking or your play at all. Im not sure why you keep saying you arent mentally committed to the hand. The fact it the only possible advantage that raising the flop might have is to get KK to fold.

a good rule of thumb might be, if bops is the only person who thinks what you did made sense in a hand, it probably didnt!

I didn't say they would reraise with nothing, but their range would be relatively wide, even pocket pairs like 7s could be reraised here, especially since I raised to seven when it's been folded around to me. I think trying to get kk to fold would be pretty -evs in that place. My raise was a snap decision more than anything else, he looked weak and I just took the opportunity to wrap it up there and then, yes I do think my qq is good, well until he called that is, then I thought he might be refusing to drop kk or maybe had a weak ace, and I checked it down. any sign of strength on his behalf and I would have probably let it go.

Surprisingly, he tabled pocket 9s. It soon became apparent after a couple of hands that this guy was an uber fish who would call down with pretty much any pair.

careca · 17-11-2006 8:28am

Hectorjelly wrote:

a good rule of thumb might be, if bops is the only person who thinks what you did made sense in a hand, it probably didnt!

sorry bops I don't know you from adam, but this is a fcuking classic

LuckyLloyd · 17-11-2006 9:11am

This post has been deleted.

ianmc38 · 17-11-2006 9:12am

careca wrote:

sorry bops I don't know you from adam, but this is a fcuking classic

.

bops · 17-11-2006 10:01am

Hectorjelly wrote:

a good rule of thumb might be, if bops is the only person who thinks what you did made sense in a hand, it probably didnt!

bit tired this morning...playing cards 'till 5am...

Awaiting appologies...
(& thanks Lloyd)

...me wrong?? HA

phantom_lord · 17-11-2006 2:51pm

Hectorjelly wrote:

They call with nothing, not raise with it. On the flop the board is A84, do you think any hand that QQ is ahead of (that reraised preflop) can call a raise?

yup, if the hand is in the hands of a calling station.

phantom_lord · 17-11-2006 2:53pm

bops wrote:

bit tired this morning...playing cards 'till 5am...

wuss...

Hectorjelly · 17-11-2006 3:43pm

phantom_lord wrote:

yup, if the hand is in the hands of a calling station.

You didnt realise how bad he was until the hand was over, if you knew that before the hand then you should post it as part of the op. You also said you raised because you thought he was weak, and you could win the pot. Did you mean by this that you thought he would call you down with 99? You raised as a reflex action because he bet small. The fact that you did get some total moron to call you there with 99 doesnt mean its the best course of action.

Slightly Confusing hand 1/2 live

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