Wages overpayment... can i keep it?

The Sparrow

I`m not sure if this is the right forum to post this, but i`ll give it a go. The other day, I realised that the place I used to work paid me for working all of October, even though I left there in September. Now that they have realised their mistake, they rang me looking for the money back... So I`m just wondering where I stand? Has anyone else been in this situation and legally do I have to give it back considering it is their mistake not mine?

I`m pretty sure I will have to give it back, but I`ve spent most of it because I assumed it was a back month I was owed or something so I was thinking of saying that I could pay it back in tiny installments. So does anyone know where I stand?

connundrum

Gotta give it back unfortunately. I think it'd be regarded as theft if you kept it.

xzanti

This happened to me a few years ago, and it happened on the week I was leaving the job so I assumed it was tax or holidays or something, went off on my summer travels and blew it and came home to a letter saying I owed them 600 odd quid... I was flat broke at the time so I ignored it and within a month or so a solicitors letter followed, I spoke to other staff from the same place who told me this had happened a few other people and they never paid it back and to just ignore the letters but they started calling my house etc.. In the end I just agreed a monthly repayment with them which got them off my back, I only paid about 3 months payments and stopped cause I was having to convert euro into sterling drafts and it was costing me more than agreed, plus I just figured it was too much hassle for someone elses mistake, nothing more has happened since then, its been about 4 years now.. Touch wood

aidan24326

Don't think you're legally obliged to pay it back. It isn't strictly theft as it's their mistake. If you totally ignored them they would ultimately have to go through solicitors and take a civil court action against you. It's debatable whether they would do this or not, as it's hardly a huge sum of money.

However for your own sake (i.e avoid the hassle of solicitors chasing you) you're better off just paying it back. But make it on your terms. Tell them you'll pay it back in small monthly installments (100 per month or whatever you can afford) and stick to your guns. It is likely they will agree to this.

You could just ignore the matter altogether, but these things usually catch up with you sooner or later.

User45701

just tell them you spent it, also it is important if you left your job on good or bad terms if u left on bad terms you can argue in court that your boss is just harassing you over a minor sum of money, dont forget to say you thought it was a back month

connundrum

aidan24326 wrote:

It isn't strictly theft as it's their mistake.

Well it is as its not your money.

If you found the money on the road it'd be a different thing. As you know where it came from, the exact amount, and more importantly - you know that you weren't due it - then it is theft.

There was a thread on this in Work & Jobs not so long ago.

Hobbes

aidan24326 wrote:

Don't think you're legally obliged to pay it back.

You are legally obliged to pay it back.

The only thing the company can't do is demand all the money back straight away if you don't have it. You can also ask them to clarify the breakdown to ensure you pay back the right amount.

IBM have a habit of paying more after you leave as there is a bit of lag between payroll and HR. but they do catch up eventually.

seamus

As I said in another thread, just because money is sitting in your bank account, doesn't necessarily make it yours. You have to return it if it doesn't belong to you.

There was a case back in 2001 (?) about a man who ended up with €600,000 in his account after a Bank of Ireland teller incorrectly input a Punt -> Euro conversion on a payment into his account. He withdrew everything and fled to Spain. Shortly thereafter, BOI contacted the Gardai, who liased with the Spanish authorities. His spanish and irish accounts were frozen by the courts, and he was forced to return to Ireland. The bank arranged a compromise payback agreement for the part of the cash he had already spent.

endplate

Sounds like you got paid for the time you worked in September??

aidan_walsh

endplate wrote:

Sounds like you got paid for the time you worked in September??

Well, if thats the case he should check with Payroll to make sure before he decides to keep it.

swingking

Is this the same as a shop returning you extra change. Is it a crime to keep extra money paid over by a cashier.

Ste.phen

technically it probably is, but they're far less likely to notice something like thast

Idbatterim

you really would know this country is going to pits when you read post like these. Its not your damn money, if they didnt pay you enough and you didnt notice initially and did at a later stage,it would you not want it to be rectified when you found out?! Dont give it back because you have to give it back out of decency! My mum is self employed and employs alot of people, and when it comes to decency from your staff, dont expect very much youll be dissapointed!

The Sparrow

Idbatterim wrote:

you really would know this country is going to pits when you read post like these. Its not your damn money, if they didnt pay you enough and you didnt notice initially and did at a later stage,it would you not want it to be rectified when you found out?! Dont give it back because you have to give it back out of decency! My mum is self employed and employs alot of people, and when it comes to decency from your staff, dont expect very much youll be dissapointed!

Whoah there cowboy, a couple of points:

The company I am talking about is one of the major financial institutions in the country so you would expect that a company that prides itself on sorting out other people's finances would at least be able to sort out its own financing and wage payments. So we are not talking about some mom and pop store that will be threatened with closure here! And as for expecting decency from staff, well it is my experience that if I am treated decently by a company then I will be decent to them. And tbh I know that this company is pretty poor at treating its staff with any modicum of decency. And even though it is not my money, it is also not my problem that they messed up. Also I`m pretty sure that if they didn`t pay me properly and I didn`t initially notice it that I would have a pretty hard time claiming it down the line. Also I know from first hand knowledge by working there that this financial institution is not at all adverse to ripping ppl off any chance they get.

Also I never said i wasn`t giving it back... I was just wondering whether I would legally be obligated to give it back. Tbh I think that any post that starts with that "this is what is wrong with this country" nonsense is ridiculous to start with. Please don`t tell me i`m whats wrong with this country because I don`t have any sympathy with an employer that makes hundreds of million's of euros in profit every year and treats its staff with very little decency. Maybe if your mum should treat her staff better if she expects them to show decency to her company!

Wishbone Ash

woooo232 wrote:

The company I am talking about is one of the major financial institutions in the country so you would expect that a company that prides itself on sorting out other people's finances would at least be able to sort out its own financing and wage payments

That's a very silly arguement to make. Stealing €5 from an OAP is no different from stealing €5 from the Bank of Ireland. If they owed you money would you say the same thing, i.e. that they should be able to sort out their payments so it doesn't matter about the money they owe you. Somehow I don't think so. You would be screaming blue murder. Repay them - it's their money.

(Mods - this would be more suited to the Work and Jobs Forum).

aidan24326

Wishbone Ash wrote:

That's a very silly arguement to make. Stealing €5 from an OAP is no different from stealing €5 from the Bank of Ireland

It is different. Stealing money from an individual, especially someone who cannot afford it any more than yourself, is always worse than stealing from a major institution like a bank or a large company, who can easily absorb the loss. I would not ever steal money off another individual, but if had the chance to steal some money from a bank and knew I'd get away with it, I'd do it no problem.

Wishbone Ash

aidan24326 wrote:

It is different. Stealing money from an individual, especially someone who cannot afford it any more than yourself, is always worse than stealing from a major institution like a bank or a large company, who can easily absorb the loss. I would not ever steal money off another individual, but if had the chance to steal some money from a bank and knew I'd get away with it, I'd do it no problem.

Legally, it's no different. Are you seriously suggesting that it's OK to steal from someone because they can afford to absorb the loss?

The Sparrow

Wishbone Ash wrote:

That's a very silly arguement to make. Stealing €5 from an OAP is no different from stealing €5 from the Bank of Ireland. If they owed you money would you say the same thing, i.e. that they should be able to sort out their payments so it doesn't matter about the money they owe you. Somehow I don't think so. You would be screaming blue murder. Repay them - it's their money.

(Mods - this would be more suited to the Work and Jobs Forum).

Thats one of the stupidest arguments I've ever heard! Yes stealing 5 euros from an OAP is no different from Stealing 5 euros from BOI. They are both stealing. BUT if that same OAP puts that 5 euros in my bank account and I inadvertently spend it, that is NOT stealing! It is their mistake! To compare this with stealing is just plain dumb imho. It may be their money, but if they are dumb enough not to be able to look after their own finances, then that is their problem not mine. How is it my fault if a company can`t sort out their payroll? Btw I AM giving the money back, just on my terms not theirs...

Wishbone Ash

woooo232 wrote:

How is it my fault if a company can`t sort out their payroll?

I didn't say it was you fault. If this large financial company shortchanged you and inadvertantly spent the money it owed you, would you adopt the same argument?

The Sparrow

Wishbone Ash wrote:

I didn't say it was you fault. If this large financial company shortchanged you and inadvertantly spent the money it owed you, would you adopt the same argument?

No probably not, but I`m pretty sure from personal experience that they would be much more hesitant about giving it back than I am! How long did it take AIB to give back the money they overcharged ppl? I was just pointing out that your analogy comparing this to stealing was ridiculous because its plainly not. I just think its a naive argument to make, especially when most ppl know that every (and especially this one) big financial institution is constantly finding new ways to rip ppl off!

Wishbone Ash

woooo232 wrote:

most ppl know that every (and especially this one) big financial institution is constantly finding new ways to rip ppl off!

Do you not think then that you are bringing yourself down to their level? If you think that they are wrong, would you not consider it better to rise above that and pay back what you owe?

(The EBS recently put €28,000 into my account that was not mine. I informed them immediately. My work colleagues thought I was insane. I don't understand their attitude. The money was not mine and it probably belonged to another customer.)

exCrumlinBoyo

Feck it man spend it, I probably would. Go drinking and laugh at each pint you buy. If/When they contact you about it, play it stupid and tell them you will get back with them. Arrange payments and tell them you can only pay them 10 euro a month as your p iss poor and that’s alls you can afford. Its their mistake and you can have it because you did not notice their mistake (Playing silly beggers).

That’s what I would do, my morals are messed up in some peoples eyes, but I could not give a s hit. If they are stupid enough to put it in your bank account then you should spent it.

johnsmith79

i left a similar financial institution 2 years ago and received numerous letters looking for an overpayment of wages. i handed in my notice in time but my manager didn't inform the HR dept. eventually they contacted me thru the legal dept so i checked it out with a solicitor friend. he confirmed i would not get away with ignoring the issue, it was not my money and i was not entitled to keep it. as it was long since spent i sent them 12 post dated cheques for the full amount.

englishineire

exCrumlinBoyo wrote:

Feck it man spend it, I probably would. Go drinking and laugh at each pint you buy. If/When they contact you about it, play it stupid and tell them you will get back with them. Arrange payments and tell them you can only pay them 10 euro a month as your p iss poor and that’s alls you can afford. Its their mistake and you can have it because you did not notice their mistake (Playing silly beggers).

That’s what I would do, my morals are messed up in some peoples eyes, but I could not give a s hit. If they are stupid enough to put it in your bank account then you should spent it.

Hilarious ! Cried with laughter whilst reading this

Right thing to do is to give it thou, it's just a question of when. You'll score no more brownie points giving it all back asap than you would do arranging payments to give it back over a period of time.